[xj-s] Remote Brake Fluid Reservoir Hoses

Of course, after rebuilding my master cylinder and bleeding the brakes,
I now find that one of the hoses leading from the brake fluid reservoir
to the master cylinder is now weeping a bit. I could probably just fit
a new clamp and tighten it down but, given that the hose is pretty hard,
I’ll probably go ahead and replace them all.

Anyone have the specs and a source for these hoses? I saw suggestions
in THE book about where to hunt for them. One suggestion was that the
VW Beetle uses the same size. Anyone know if this is the current Beetle
or the old one? Exactly what size is it? Has anyone else found
suitable replacements? Any sources, comments, etc.

Thanks,
Odysseus
'88 XJ-S

PS, just for good measure my reservoir cap started leaking even though
I’d just replaced it!! At least the dealer part came with a one year
warranty and they’re going to give me a new one - no charge. (BTW, it
was the same price at the dealer as it was from aftermarket suppliers.)–
Odysseus Marcopolus
Bucks County, Pa, US

Odysseus Marcopolus wrote:

Anyone have the specs and a source for these hoses? I saw suggestions
in THE book about where to hunt for them. One suggestion was that the
VW Beetle uses the same size. Anyone know if this is the current Beetle
or the old one?

I got the VW hose and found it was not a good fit. Wound up going to
an hydraulics shop with the measured tubing OD and the simple statement
“break fluid.” The fellow looked it up, then cut the foot or so I needed
and gave it to me w/o charge. It fits leak-free w/o clamps, BTW. There is no
pressure here.

If you want to try the WV non-solution, let me know and I’ll sed it to you
:-)>

Anyone rebuild sections of their IRS lately?
After completely sorting the front suspension, I found there was still some
vagueness at speed and rear end steering on the highway. It is a strange
sensation but while cruising on the highway and then letting off power, the
car would yaw. I put it up on jacks in the garage and found a serious amount
of free play in the rear outer fulcrum bearings. Rocking the wheel side to
side I can see the shaft move in the bearings quite a bit on one side and a
little less on the other.
Questions
Are there any other components in the assembly that wear and should be
replaced(ordered in advance) other than the bearings and the felt seals?
Also the ROM says the hub must be completely removed to replace bearings but
Haynes says you can disconnect the lower wishbone(just drive out the fulcrum
shaft) to remove bearings but eventually must remove hub carrier completely
to install new bearings in order to preload them properly. Assuming the new
bearings are the same as the worn ones, would the current shims allow for
the same preload or do I actually need to remove the whole hub carrier?
Assuming the latter, has anyone used a homemade suitable bearing puller to
separate the hub carrier from the splined outer drive shaft?(The one in the
ROM looks purpose Jaguar).
Any and all advice would be appreciated.( I would like to remain with the
roller bearings and not change to the bronze bushings at this time)
Thanks
Patrick
82 HE

“break fluid.”
It’s brake fluid, as in, if you don’t jump on the “brakes” in time and run
up the arse of the guy in front you “break” your XJS.

Ashy

A practical joke is funny
until someone gets hurt,
Then it becomes f**kin hilarious.----- Original Message ----

Patrick,

This can turn into a huge job - but it’s not too hard if you label
everything and prepare for it. Fulcrum pivot bearing end play has to be set
up with the hub assembly out of the car. There is a specific tool, but it is
just a steel plate with a threaded hole for one end of the fulcrum shaft.
You can also fabricate a puller fairly easily as well. I had one made for an
E-Type that required left and right hand threading to match the
knock-offs(that was tough). Anyway, the puller for an XJ-S should be a lot
easier because of the bolt-on hubs. I’ll send you the plans if you’re
interested. It should require no more than a bottle jack and a shop drilling
some holes in a plate for you.

Alternately, and this is 3/4 baked theory, if you have access to some
acurate measuring equipment, you can pull out the old bearings and spacers,
measure the thickness of everything and make sure that what you put back in
adds up to what you took out. That should get you close.

Best Regards,
John Robison
QAM8 Plant Investigating Engineer
e-mail: john.robison@us.bosch.com
Phone: (864) 260-8689
Page: (864) 964-7434
Fax: (864) 260-8022> -----Original Message-----

From: Patrick and Shawna MacNamara [SMTP:shawnam@pacificcoast.net]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 11:22 PM
To: jaguar xj-s
Subject: [xj-s] rear suspension outer fulcrum bearings in hub
carrier)

Anyone rebuild sections of their IRS lately?
After completely sorting the front suspension, I found there was still
some
vagueness at speed and rear end steering on the highway. It is a strange
sensation but while cruising on the highway and then letting off power,
the
car would yaw. I put it up on jacks in the garage and found a serious
amount
of free play in the rear outer fulcrum bearings. Rocking the wheel side to
side I can see the shaft move in the bearings quite a bit on one side and
a
little less on the other.
Questions
Are there any other components in the assembly that wear and should be
replaced(ordered in advance) other than the bearings and the felt seals?
Also the ROM says the hub must be completely removed to replace bearings
but
Haynes says you can disconnect the lower wishbone(just drive out the
fulcrum
shaft) to remove bearings but eventually must remove hub carrier
completely
to install new bearings in order to preload them properly. Assuming the
new
bearings are the same as the worn ones, would the current shims allow for
the same preload or do I actually need to remove the whole hub carrier?
Assuming the latter, has anyone used a homemade suitable bearing puller to
separate the hub carrier from the splined outer drive shaft?(The one in
the
ROM looks purpose Jaguar).
Any and all advice would be appreciated.( I would like to remain with the
roller bearings and not change to the bronze bushings at this time)
Thanks
Patrick
82 HE

John,
Don’t go to any trouble as I have just returned from the dealer(talked to
head mechanic) who stated that replacement bearings are machined to a C3
tolerance(ie should be the same thickness as old original) and as long as I
put the old shims back in the same position, the preload should be
good(sounds quite a bit like your 3/4 baked theory). He stated, as I have
read several times that the bearings in that particular installation
“boxcar” as they do not rotate far enough around to promote even wear. The
roller bearing just wear a localized groove until the entire assembly is
loose. The bonus of this is that the you do not need to remove the hub
carrier. All that is required is to remove the fulcrum pin, drive out the
old races and insert new ones with the same shims originally
nstalled.( with new oil seals as well) I had a look at the new bearings in
the Jaguar box at the dealer and they are obviously just TIMKIN.
06162/06062(inner/outer). The dealer wants about $30CDN a piece which is
about the same as what XKs Unlimited has them on sale for right now.
Patrick
82 HE-----Original Message-----
From: Robison John (AdW/QAM8) [mailto:John.Robison@us.bosch.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 8:15 AM
To: ‘Patrick and Shawna MacNamara’
Subject: RE: [xj-s] rear suspension outer fulcrum bearings in hub
carrier) - disregard the 3/4 bake.

Patrick,

When I rebuilt the E-Type IRS, I followed the method in the Bentley manual,
which is the only one. The IRS units are basically the same and share a lot
of parts - brakes, rotors, bearings, hub carriers, u-joints, differential,
and all the rubber bits. That’s what I’m basing all this on. The puller I
designed uses a bottle jack and essentially uses the body of the hub
carrier-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj-s@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj-s@jag-lovers.org]On
Behalf Of Robison John (AdW/QAM8)
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 5:38 AM
To: jaguar xj-s
Subject: RE: [xj-s] rear suspension outer fulcrum bearings in hub
carrier)

Patrick,

This can turn into a huge job - but it’s not too hard if you label
everything and prepare for it. Fulcrum pivot bearing end play has to be set
up with the hub assembly out of the car. There is a specific tool, but it is
just a steel plate with a threaded hole for one end of the fulcrum shaft.
You can also fabricate a puller fairly easily as well. I had one made for an
E-Type that required left and right hand threading to match the
knock-offs(that was tough). Anyway, the puller for an XJ-S should be a lot
easier because of the bolt-on hubs. I’ll send you the plans if you’re
interested. It should require no more than a bottle jack and a shop drilling
some holes in a plate for you.

Alternately, and this is 3/4 baked theory, if you have access to some
acurate measuring equipment, you can pull out the old bearings and spacers,
measure the thickness of everything and make sure that what you put back in
adds up to what you took out. That should get you close.

Best Regards,
John Robison
QAM8 Plant Investigating Engineer
e-mail: john.robison@us.bosch.com
Phone: (864) 260-8689
Page: (864) 964-7434
Fax: (864) 260-8022

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick and Shawna MacNamara [SMTP:@Patrick_and_Shawna_M]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 11:22 PM
To: jaguar xj-s
Subject: [xj-s] rear suspension outer fulcrum bearings in hub
carrier)

Anyone rebuild sections of their IRS lately?
After completely sorting the front suspension, I found there was still
some
vagueness at speed and rear end steering on the highway. It is a strange
sensation but while cruising on the highway and then letting off power,
the
car would yaw. I put it up on jacks in the garage and found a serious
amount
of free play in the rear outer fulcrum bearings. Rocking the wheel side to
side I can see the shaft move in the bearings quite a bit on one side and
a
little less on the other.
Questions
Are there any other components in the assembly that wear and should be
replaced(ordered in advance) other than the bearings and the felt seals?
Also the ROM says the hub must be completely removed to replace bearings
but
Haynes says you can disconnect the lower wishbone(just drive out the
fulcrum
shaft) to remove bearings but eventually must remove hub carrier
completely
to install new bearings in order to preload them properly. Assuming the
new
bearings are the same as the worn ones, would the current shims allow for
the same preload or do I actually need to remove the whole hub carrier?
Assuming the latter, has anyone used a homemade suitable bearing puller to
separate the hub carrier from the splined outer drive shaft?(The one in
the
ROM looks purpose Jaguar).
Any and all advice would be appreciated.( I would like to remain with the
roller bearings and not change to the bronze bushings at this time)
Thanks
Patrick
82 HE

I did this job 3 years ago and so my memory is a bit fuzzy.

You’ll need to replace the bearings, races and seals.

You might be able to use the correct shims. See if you can source them
locally, because they are available in different thicknesses and are
expensive enought that you don’t want to invest in an inventory.

You can pull the hub with a generic puller.

You can take it apart without pulling the hub but you’ll never get it back
together that way. Just pull it apart.

These things often fail because water gets in. Water sometimes gets in
because someone opens it up and puts it together incorrectly. I had three
different manuals, and the assembly order was not consistent among them.
Either ambiguous or outright wrong. I don’t remember the absolutely
correct sequence but someone on this list will.

JohnOn Mon, 23 Oct 2000, Patrick and Shawna MacNamara wrote:

Anyone rebuild sections of their IRS lately?
After completely sorting the front suspension, I found there was still some
vagueness at speed and rear end steering on the highway. It is a strange
sensation but while cruising on the highway and then letting off power, the
car would yaw. I put it up on jacks in the garage and found a serious amount
of free play in the rear outer fulcrum bearings. Rocking the wheel side to
side I can see the shaft move in the bearings quite a bit on one side and a
little less on the other.
Questions
Are there any other components in the assembly that wear and should be
replaced(ordered in advance) other than the bearings and the felt seals?
Also the ROM says the hub must be completely removed to replace bearings but
Haynes says you can disconnect the lower wishbone(just drive out the fulcrum
shaft) to remove bearings but eventually must remove hub carrier completely
to install new bearings in order to preload them properly. Assuming the new
bearings are the same as the worn ones, would the current shims allow for
the same preload or do I actually need to remove the whole hub carrier?
Assuming the latter, has anyone used a homemade suitable bearing puller to
separate the hub carrier from the splined outer drive shaft?(The one in the
ROM looks purpose Jaguar).
Any and all advice would be appreciated.( I would like to remain with the
roller bearings and not change to the bronze bushings at this time)
Thanks
Patrick
82 HE

You can take it apart without pulling the hub but you’ll never get it
back together that way. Just pull it apart.

OK, that part lost me. The ROM seems to agree; sections 64.15.01 and
64.15.07 describe doing both the hub bearings and the fulcrum
bearings in the same operation. Why can’t one just do the fulcrum
bearings if that’s all that needs work? I can’t see how they are
related at all, except that they are both installed in the same hub
carrier.

These things often fail because water gets in. Water sometimes gets
in because someone opens it up and puts it together incorrectly. I
had three different manuals, and the assembly order was not consistent
among them. Either ambiguous or outright wrong. I don’t remember the
absolutely correct sequence but someone on this list will.

I seem to recall some discussion about where the shims go. So, I
took a few minutes to look over this assembly. Let me explain it as
I see it (keeping in mind I haven’t actually done this job), and hope
that others can jump in with additions and corrections.

There are actually TWO separate shimming jobs to be done when
assembling the fulcrum bearings. The first is described in section
65.15.07 in steps 18 through 28. This setup establishes the bearing
preload, which is .002" by the way. When you tighten the nuts down
on the fulcrum shaft, you’re gonna be jamming the cones of both
tapered bearings down tight into the cups, so there is a spacer tube -

  • actually two spacer tubes end-to-end – that space the cones apart.
    The shims could be installed at one end, the other end, or in the
    middle between the two spacer tubes, and it would accomplish the same
    thing, but the book describes putting them in the middle.

The second shimming job is described in section 64.15.01 in step 10.
Or, I should say, ISN’T described in step 10. It just says to put
the shims in. This set of shims isn’t as critical as the others; the
idea is merely to make the bearing stack nearly the same as the width
of the fork on the swingarm so that as the nuts are tightened down
the swingarm doesn’t get distorted. Basically, jam in about as many
shims as you can.

The first item of confusion: apparently Jaguar calls for the same
part number for both of these shimming jobs: C16626, available in
either .003" or .007" thicknesses. Of course, there’s no reason to
use different part numbers, but seeing the same part number in two
places in the exploding drawing may confuse people.

Now, for some controversy. I seem to recall someone suggesting the
second set of shims NOT be installed where shown in the diagrams –
outside the oil seal track, between the oil seal track and the inside
surface of the swingarm. Instead, it was suggested that these shims
be installed inside the oil seal track, between the oil seal track
and the bearing cone. This might take a little longer to get the
stack right, as you have to trial fit, then remove the oil seal
track, change shims, reassemble and trial fit again. However, the
benefits are considerable: the shims end up INSIDE the oil seal,
protected from the elements, where they will look as good years from
now as they look when installed. Installing them on the outside not
only exposes them to the elements, but also exposes them to some
potential for physical damage – grass or whatever could get wrapped
up in there and start boogering up the shims. It also might actually
make it a bit easier to assemble; there is the additional fiddling to
get the proper shims installed, but with the oil seal track over top
of them they will STAY in place while you’re offering the carrier up
to the swingarm.

I suppose all this should be in the Book.

BTW, this entire job requires a dummy shaft. I presume nobody has
too much trouble coming up with such, but we might ask for ideas
here. What have people used to make that dummy shaft?

– Kirbert | Palm’s Postulate:
| If anything is to be accomplished,
| some rules must be broken.
| – Kirby Palm, 1979On 24 Oct 2000, at 15:16, JGN wrote:

You can take it apart without pulling the hub but you’ll never get it
back together that way. Just pull it apart.

OK, that part lost me. The ROM seems to agree; sections 64.15.01 and
64.15.07 describe doing both the hub bearings and the fulcrum
bearings in the same operation. Why can’t one just do the fulcrum
bearings if that’s all that needs work? I can’t see how they are
related at all, except that they are both installed in the same hub
carrier.

Well, I guess theoretically it can be done that way. However, the whole
shebang is something of an interference fit, and it takes a bit of
coordination to get it all together without damaging the seals or shims.
Since it is really easy to pull the hub off, it might be easier to pull
that to make things easier to manuever. On my XJ6, I had to replace a hub
bearing, so I had them off anyway. I broke open my XJ-S to see how the
fulcrum parts were assembled, and put it back together without removing
the hub.

I have opened up three fulcrum assemblies on three different Jags (my XJ6,
my XJ-S and another) and each had the parts in a different sequence, none
of them matching the various and sometimes ambiguous manuals.

These things often fail because water gets in. Water sometimes gets
in because someone opens it up and puts it together incorrectly. I
had three different manuals, and the assembly order was not consistent
among them. Either ambiguous or outright wrong. I don’t remember the
absolutely correct sequence but someone on this list will.

See the above. Failure is caused either because things stay sealed and
eventually the rollers wear grooves in the races, or, and more likely,
when water gets in there and things get rusty. When this happens the wear
is quick and gross and the major sloppiness in the fulcrum bearing becomes
apparent.

I suppose all this should be in the Book.

Absolutely!! We need a definitive answer on the best way to set the
fulcrum bearings up - even if it strays from the ROM - and that, with a
diagram, should be in the Book.

BTW, this entire job requires a dummy shaft. I presume nobody has
too much trouble coming up with such, but we might ask for ideas
here. What have people used to make that dummy shaft?

I used a stainless steel bar of suitable diameter. I think it was meant
to be the power shaft from an outboard motor - it and a lot of other metal
stock came with my lathe. The shaft I used was slightly smaller in OD
than the fulcrum shaft, and over a foot long. It doesn’t matter that the
diameter is less than the fulcrum shaft, as long as it is large enough to
keep the parts in alignment.

JohnOn Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Kirbert wrote:

On 24 Oct 2000, at 15:16, JGN wrote:

Why can’t one just do the fulcrum
bearings if that’s all that needs work? I can’t see how they are
related at all, except that they are both installed in the same hub
carrier.

Well, I guess theoretically it can be done that way. However, the
whole shebang is something of an interference fit, and it takes a bit
of coordination to get it all together without damaging the seals or
shims. Since it is really easy to pull the hub off, it might be easier
to pull that to make things easier to manuever.

Maybe we’re having a semantics problem. Removing the hub carrier
from the car is a lead pipe cinch, and obviously would be recommended
for R&R of the fulcrum bearings. But rebuilding the hub bearings
requires a puller of some sort, and there have been several
discussions here that it was NOT easy. If one’s hub bearings are OK,
I don’t see why one would touch them when working on the fulcrum
bearings.

I have opened up three fulcrum assemblies on three different Jags (my
XJ6, my XJ-S and another) and each had the parts in a different
sequence, none of them matching the various and sometimes ambiguous
manuals.

Sometimes???

Can you give some examples of the various assembly sequences? Were
any of them actually harmful?

See the above. Failure is caused either because things stay sealed
and eventually the rollers wear grooves in the races…

The failure mode of roller bearings that don’t rotate but rather
remain stationary and turn back and forth just a hair is called
“false brinelling”, because it looks much like a Brinell hardness
test (lay roller on track, smack with hammer) until you look at it
with a microscope. Under magnification, the actual Brinell dimple
still has the original machining marks at the bottom, since they were
merely pushed downward. The false brinelling, though, is a pattern
of wear at individual spots, so the bottoms of the dimples are smooth.

The secret of avoiding false brinelling is to make the rollers small
enough that the small movements of the bearing make them move more
than the space between them, spreading the wear more uniformly over
the race. If that is impractical, you either need to go with a
bushing instead, or just plan on replacing the bearings often.

This is a real troublemaker on headset bearings on bicycles. The
fork turns only a hair, even during steep turns. When the wear
causes false brinelling dimples, the handling gets all screwed up –
the steering seems to “snap” from position to position. And you can
only tell when there is weight on the bike, since only the LOWER
bearing suffers the wear – if you pick the bike up and turn the fork
back and forth, it seems fine because there’s no weight on it and
it’s rolling on the upper bearing. The only way to test is to hold
the front wheel off the ground, pull up on the handlebars while
pushing down on the frame as hard as you can, and turn back and forth
– and if you can feel ANY snappage, replace the headset.

…or, and more

likely, when water gets in there and things get rusty.

Ah, that brings up a possibility. There are seals to keep water out
of the assembly, but water might still be able to sneak in between
the shaft and the oil seal track. And considering where this thing
is, it’s actually possible to park the car in a puddle and have this
thing immersed. Perhaps it’d be a good idea to apply some sealant to
the ID of the oil seal track when assembling. Considering how the
thing is assembled, though – using a dummy shaft, and pushing the
dummy shaft out by inserting the real shaft – I dunno how to get
sealant to stay in place.

BTW, this entire job requires a dummy shaft. I presume nobody has
too much trouble coming up with such, but we might ask for ideas
here. What have people used to make that dummy shaft?

I used a stainless steel bar of suitable diameter.

Hah! Like we’ll all have one of those laying around!

The shaft I used was slightly
smaller in OD than the fulcrum shaft, and over a foot long.

Didn’t you have to cut it down to the length of the hub carrier?
After all, if longer than the hub carrier would work, you’d just use
the actual fulcrum shaft.

It
doesn’t matter that the diameter is less than the fulcrum shaft, as
long as it is large enough to keep the parts in alignment.

Yeah, I can see that.

– Kirbert | Palm’s Postulate:
| If anything is to be accomplished,
| some rules must be broken.
| – Kirby Palm, 1979On 25 Oct 2000, at 12:33, JGN wrote:

Well, I guess theoretically it can be done that way. However, the
whole shebang is something of an interference fit, and it takes a bit
of coordination to get it all together without damaging the seals or
shims. Since it is really easy to pull the hub off, it might be easier
to pull that to make things easier to manuever.

Maybe we’re having a semantics problem. Removing the hub carrier
from the car is a lead pipe cinch, and obviously would be recommended
for R&R of the fulcrum bearings. But rebuilding the hub bearings
requires a puller of some sort, and there have been several
discussions here that it was NOT easy. If one’s hub bearings are OK,
I don’t see why one would touch them when working on the fulcrum
bearings.

When I did the job on my XJ6, I had a bad hub bearing AND a bad fulcrum
bearing on the same side, so I used a puller. I did NOT have any trouble
pulling it apart with a generic hub puller. I subsequently opened up the
other side the same way to check the hub bearings and fulcrum bearings on
the other side.

I guess tha answer is that you can change the fulcrum bearings in any one
of the three ways.

I have opened up three fulcrum assemblies on three different Jags (my
XJ6, my XJ-S and another) and each had the parts in a different
sequence, none of them matching the various and sometimes ambiguous
manuals.

Sometimes???

Can you give some examples of the various assembly sequences? Were
any of them actually harmful?

Well, I’d say that they were harmful in that the insides were a rusty
mess. I do not remember the sequences any more – I wrote them all down
at the time, when I was trying to sort it all out, but the info is long
gone. I do remember that my XJ6 was extremely rusty, and then when I
opened up my XJ-S to see how it was put together, it was a different way
with less rust. That’s how I got to add yet another rebuilding task for
my XJ-S. The differences were in the direction the seal components faced,
how they were assembled (the sequence they were stacked), and where the
shims went. None of them had the shims in between the tubes as you
suggested in an earlier email.

…or, and more

likely, when water gets in there and things get rusty.

Ah, that brings up a possibility. There are seals to keep water out
of the assembly, but water might still be able to sneak in between
the shaft and the oil seal track. And considering where this thing
is, it’s actually possible to park the car in a puddle and have this
thing immersed. Perhaps it’d be a good idea to apply some sealant to
the ID of the oil seal track when assembling. Considering how the
thing is assembled, though – using a dummy shaft, and pushing the
dummy shaft out by inserting the real shaft – I dunno how to get
sealant to stay in place.

The rust is a BIG issue. The bearings and races get rusty and the rust
becomes the bearing surface. There should be a better way to get this all
sealed, and of keeping it lubed. It seems to me that even if everything
is perfect, grease might not get to some of the areas to serve as
protection against water getting in. I wonder if the fitting of a shield
or of wrapping it all somehow would help. Question: on Jags where the
parts are assembled ‘correctly’, do these parts get rusty? The rust on
the fulcrum bearings on my cars could have been caused by prior
boogerizations (DPO).

The shaft I used was slightly
smaller in OD than the fulcrum shaft, and over a foot long.

Didn’t you have to cut it down to the length of the hub carrier?
After all, if longer than the hub carrier would work, you’d just use
the actual fulcrum shaft.

No, I didn’t. I remember feeding it through and getting all the parts in
place, and then pressing in the fulcrum shaft from one end. As it went in
it pushed the dummy shaft out. The fact that the dummy shaft was smaller
in OD than the fulcrum shaft helped me to wiggle eveything together, since
you are going for something like a 3 thousandths interference fit.

JohnOn Wed, 25 Oct 2000, Kirbert wrote:

Well, I’d say that they were harmful in that the insides were a rusty
mess.

The original Jag gubbins that passes for a seal on the outer fulcrums is a
hang over from 1950’s engineering. There are more bits of metal and felt
involved than one can safely contemplate. However, it was pointed out to me
that the fulcrum seal from an XJ40 fits just fine; this is a standard lip
oil seal, press fits into the hub. The only bit of the original assembly
you need to retain is the sleeve that goes over each end of the fulcrum
shaft - that rides on the lip of the seal.

Net result is that water ingress is stopped in its tracks, and rust is a
thing of history.

Craig

wish I would have know that 3 yrs ago.

Craig Sawyers wrote:> > Well, I’d say that they were harmful in that the insides were a rusty

mess.

The original Jag gubbins that passes for a seal on the outer fulcrums is a
hang over from 1950’s engineering. There are more bits of metal and felt
involved than one can safely contemplate. However, it was pointed out to me
that the fulcrum seal from an XJ40 fits just fine; this is a standard lip
oil seal, press fits into the hub. The only bit of the original assembly
you need to retain is the sleeve that goes over each end of the fulcrum
shaft - that rides on the lip of the seal.

Net result is that water ingress is stopped in its tracks, and rust is a
thing of history.

Craig

I flipped the felt seal inboard of the outer cup & also flipped the cup so
that the cup was facing inboard, shimms went against the tube & races but it’s
been 3 years since it was done. thye procedure I used is in the archives may -
july 3 yrs back ?

bob

JGN wrote:> On Wed, 25 Oct 2000, Kirbert wrote:

Well, I guess theoretically it can be done that way. However, the
whole shebang is something of an interference fit, and it takes a bit
of coordination to get it all together without damaging the seals or
shims. Since it is really easy to pull the hub off, it might be easier
to pull that to make things easier to manuever.

Maybe we’re having a semantics problem. Removing the hub carrier
from the car is a lead pipe cinch, and obviously would be recommended
for R&R of the fulcrum bearings. But rebuilding the hub bearings
requires a puller of some sort, and there have been several
discussions here that it was NOT easy. If one’s hub bearings are OK,
I don’t see why one would touch them when working on the fulcrum
bearings.

When I did the job on my XJ6, I had a bad hub bearing AND a bad fulcrum
bearing on the same side, so I used a puller. I did NOT have any trouble
pulling it apart with a generic hub puller. I subsequently opened up the
other side the same way to check the hub bearings and fulcrum bearings on
the other side.

I guess tha answer is that you can change the fulcrum bearings in any one
of the three ways.

I have opened up three fulcrum assemblies on three different Jags (my
XJ6, my XJ-S and another) and each had the parts in a different
sequence, none of them matching the various and sometimes ambiguous
manuals.

Sometimes???

Can you give some examples of the various assembly sequences? Were
any of them actually harmful?

Well, I’d say that they were harmful in that the insides were a rusty
mess. I do not remember the sequences any more – I wrote them all down
at the time, when I was trying to sort it all out, but the info is long
gone. I do remember that my XJ6 was extremely rusty, and then when I
opened up my XJ-S to see how it was put together, it was a different way
with less rust. That’s how I got to add yet another rebuilding task for
my XJ-S. The differences were in the direction the seal components faced,
how they were assembled (the sequence they were stacked), and where the
shims went. None of them had the shims in between the tubes as you
suggested in an earlier email.

…or, and more

likely, when water gets in there and things get rusty.

Ah, that brings up a possibility. There are seals to keep water out
of the assembly, but water might still be able to sneak in between
the shaft and the oil seal track. And considering where this thing
is, it’s actually possible to park the car in a puddle and have this
thing immersed. Perhaps it’d be a good idea to apply some sealant to
the ID of the oil seal track when assembling. Considering how the
thing is assembled, though – using a dummy shaft, and pushing the
dummy shaft out by inserting the real shaft – I dunno how to get
sealant to stay in place.

The rust is a BIG issue. The bearings and races get rusty and the rust
becomes the bearing surface. There should be a better way to get this all
sealed, and of keeping it lubed. It seems to me that even if everything
is perfect, grease might not get to some of the areas to serve as
protection against water getting in. I wonder if the fitting of a shield
or of wrapping it all somehow would help. Question: on Jags where the
parts are assembled ‘correctly’, do these parts get rusty? The rust on
the fulcrum bearings on my cars could have been caused by prior
boogerizations (DPO).

The shaft I used was slightly
smaller in OD than the fulcrum shaft, and over a foot long.

Didn’t you have to cut it down to the length of the hub carrier?
After all, if longer than the hub carrier would work, you’d just use
the actual fulcrum shaft.

No, I didn’t. I remember feeding it through and getting all the parts in
place, and then pressing in the fulcrum shaft from one end. As it went in
it pushed the dummy shaft out. The fact that the dummy shaft was smaller
in OD than the fulcrum shaft helped me to wiggle eveything together, since
you are going for something like a 3 thousandths interference fit.

John

JGN wrote:

You can take it apart without pulling the hub but you’ll never get it
back together that way. Just pull it apart.

OK, that part lost me. The ROM seems to agree; sections 64.15.01 and
64.15.07 describe doing both the hub bearings and the fulcrum
bearings in the same operation. Why can’t one just do the fulcrum
bearings if that’s all that needs work? I can’t see how they are
related at all, except that they are both installed in the same hub
carrier.

Well, I guess theoretically it can be done that way. However, the whole
shebang is something of an interference fit, and it takes a bit of
coordination to get it all together without damaging the seals or shims.

only seal that could be damaged is the felt one, the other seals mentioned in
the ROM are thick metal things. If you grease up the hub so the shims stay put
between the tube & race no dummy shaft is needed, just take your time & turn
the shaft slowly as you insert it. May also want to dry run it to clear the
grease out of the tube so it doesn’t force things out the other end. & reverse
that felt seal & cup.

bob> On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Kirbert wrote:

On 24 Oct 2000, at 15:16, JGN wrote:

However, it was pointed out to me

that the fulcrum seal from an XJ40 fits just fine; this is a standard lip
oil seal, press fits into the hub. The only bit of the original assembly
you need to retain is the sleeve that goes over each end of the fulcrum
shaft - that rides on the lip of the seal.

Net result is that water ingress is stopped in its tracks, and rust is a
thing of history.

Craig

Just looking at my XKs Unlimited catalogue and there doesn’t appear to be
seals in their exploded view diagram for the XJ40 fulcrum assembly. Just
what appears to be a sealed bearing assembly. Anyone have apart number for
the XJ40 fulcrum seal?
Patrick
82 HE

But rebuilding the hub
bearings requires a puller of some sort, and there have been several
discussions here that it was NOT easy.

Why not easy? The axle shafts can be pressed out with a fairly
simple tool. I have one at home and have offered the design to other
listers.

Getting the axle shafts out is easy – I did it without a tool. But
replacing the hub bearings requires getting the hub shaft pressed out
of the bearings themselves. I haven’t done it myself, I only recall
some discussion on the difficulties involved.

What have people used to make that dummy shaft?

I used a stainless steel bar of suitable diameter.

A wooden dowel also works. That is what I used.

Ah! Great tip!

– Kirbert | Palm’s Postulate:
| If anything is to be accomplished,
| some rules must be broken.
| – Kirby Palm, 1979On 25 Oct 2000, at 16:31, Robison John (AdW/QAM8) wrote:

Patrick and Shawna MacNamara wrote:

However, it was pointed out to me

that the fulcrum seal from an XJ40 fits just fine; this is a standard lip
oil seal, press fits into the hub. The only bit of the original assembly
you need to retain is the sleeve that goes over each end of the fulcrum
shaft - that rides on the lip of the seal.

Net result is that water ingress is stopped in its tracks, and rust is a
thing of history.

Craig

Just looking at my XKs Unlimited catalogue and there doesn’t appear to be
seals in their exploded view diagram for the XJ40 fulcrum assembly. Just
what appears to be a sealed bearing assembly. Anyone have apart number for
the XJ40 fulcrum seal?

Patrick,

The XKs catalog illustration is probably the one from the Jag parts book
I’m looking at and it does seems that it is a sealed bearing. We have a
cross reference to this CAC4610 bearing which shows three bearing
numbers: one for the bearing, one for the race, and an LM11900EA for the
seal. I’d go look at one but we’re awaiting stock on this part number at
present.

I am assuming that you are looking at the pivot assembly out by the rear
hub carrier or upright.

Best regards,

Gregory Wells
Coventry West, Inc.
New, Rebuilt, & Used Jaguar Parts


800-331-2193 x103

Now THAT is a handy hint!

JohnOn Thu, 26 Oct 2000, Craig Sawyers wrote:

Well, I’d say that they were harmful in that the insides were a rusty
mess.

The original Jag gubbins that passes for a seal on the outer fulcrums is a
hang over from 1950’s engineering. There are more bits of metal and felt
involved than one can safely contemplate. However, it was pointed out to me
that the fulcrum seal from an XJ40 fits just fine; this is a standard lip
oil seal, press fits into the hub. The only bit of the original assembly
you need to retain is the sleeve that goes over each end of the fulcrum
shaft - that rides on the lip of the seal.

Net result is that water ingress is stopped in its tracks, and rust is a
thing of history.

Craig

Well, I guess theoretically it can be done that way. However, the whole
shebang is something of an interference fit, and it takes a bit of
coordination to get it all together without damaging the seals or shims.

only seal that could be damaged is the felt one, the other seals mentioned in
the ROM are thick metal things. If you grease up the hub so the shims stay put
between the tube & race no dummy shaft is needed, just take your time & turn
the shaft slowly as you insert it. May also want to dry run it to clear the
grease out of the tube so it doesn’t force things out the other end. & reverse
that felt seal & cup.

On my install I needed some thin shims and they are easily damaged.

JohnOn Wed, 25 Oct 2000 rgallivan@worldnet.att.net wrote: