Greetings,
John, when you get the blower(s?) in, how are you going to re-map the
injector timing and ignition timing?
Chris, '88 TWR XJR-S (needing blowers…)_______________________________________________________
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Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:38:25 PST
From: “Chris Knowles” cspknowles@excite.com
Subject: [xj-s] Supercharged V12Greetings,
John, when you get the blower(s?) in, how are you going to re-map the
injector timing and ignition timing?
Chris, '88 TWR XJR-S (needing blowers…)
I’ve got an aftermarket progammable EFI unit (link) which I have yet to
install, it gives me direct ignition (ie distributorless) plus injection
control. Cost me $1700 ($1000 for the ecu and wires, $600 for the crank
angle sensor, $100 for a pair of triple coils of the VN Holden Commodore
(GM)
John–
This mail is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and
grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to
be considered flaws or defects.
John Littler wrote:
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:38:25 PST
From: “Chris Knowles” cspknowles@excite.com
Subject: [xj-s] Supercharged V12Greetings,
John, when you get the blower(s?) in, how are you going to re-map the
injector timing and ignition timing?
Chris, '88 TWR XJR-S (needing blowers…)I’ve got an aftermarket progammable EFI unit (link) which I have yet to
install, it gives me direct ignition (ie distributorless) plus injection
control. Cost me $1700 ($1000 for the ecu and wires, $600 for the crank
angle sensor, $100 for a pair of triple coils of the VN Holden Commodore
(GM)
Ahemm, $600 just for the crank sensor? What the frigin’ heck is it
made of? Maybe you could use one from a BMW Motronic and send that thing
back…
WalterWalter Petermann wrote:
John Littler wrote:
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:38:25 PST
From: “Chris Knowles” cspknowles@excite.com
Subject: [xj-s] Supercharged V12Greetings,
John, when you get the blower(s?) in, how are you going to re-map the
injector timing and ignition timing?
Chris, '88 TWR XJR-S (needing blowers…)I’ve got an aftermarket progammable EFI unit (link) which I have yet to
install, it gives me direct ignition (ie distributorless) plus injection
control. Cost me $1700 ($1000 for the ecu and wires, $600 for the crank
angle sensor, $100 for a pair of triple coils of the VN Holden Commodore
(GM)Ahemm, $600 just for the crank sensor? What the frigin’ heck is it
made of? Maybe you could use one from a BMW Motronic and send that thing
back…
Errr well maybe, but it’s a new crank pulley,spacer and chopper blade
fittings as well as the sensor - I couldn’t get one anywhere else. How
would I make the BMW one fit ?
John–
This mail is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and
grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to
be considered flaws or defects.
John Littler wrote:
Walter Petermann wrote:
John Littler wrote:
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:38:25 PST
From: “Chris Knowles” cspknowles@excite.com
Subject: [xj-s] Supercharged V12Greetings,
John, when you get the blower(s?) in, how are you going to re-map the
injector timing and ignition timing?
Chris, '88 TWR XJR-S (needing blowers…)I’ve got an aftermarket progammable EFI unit (link) which I have yet to
install, it gives me direct ignition (ie distributorless) plus injection
control. Cost me $1700 ($1000 for the ecu and wires, $600 for the crank
angle sensor, $100 for a pair of triple coils of the VN Holden Commodore
(GM)Ahemm, $600 just for the crank sensor? What the frigin’ heck is it
made of? Maybe you could use one from a BMW Motronic and send that thing
back…Errr well maybe, but it’s a new crank pulley,spacer and chopper blade
fittings as well as the sensor - I couldn’t get one anywhere else.
Well, ok… it just seems high when compared to the cost of the ecu.
How many notches does the chopper blade have?
How would I make the BMW one fit ?
I guess I would make a dummy bracket out of aluminum then take it to
a machine shop and have them duplicate it in iron… just a thought.
It might be expensive to do, but if the sensor ever goes bad you
wouldn’t have to spend much on a replacement. You might even find one
at a junk yard for $30 . How about a crank sensor from a Marelli xjs?
The stock bracket for it might be worth taking a look at.
WalterWalter Petermann wrote:
.snip…
I’ve got an aftermarket progammable EFI unit (link) which I have yet to
install, it gives me direct ignition (ie distributorless) plus injection
control. Cost me $1700 ($1000 for the ecu and wires, $600 for the crank
angle sensor, $100 for a pair of triple coils of the VN Holden Commodore
(GM)Ahemm, $600 just for the crank sensor? What the frigin’ heck is it
made of? Maybe you could use one from a BMW Motronic and send that thing
back…Errr well maybe, but it’s a new crank pulley,spacer and chopper blade
fittings as well as the sensor - I couldn’t get one anywhere else.Well, ok… it just seems high when compared to the cost of the ecu.
How many notches does the chopper blade have?
6 “teeth” plus notch for tdc (or was it bdc I forget)
How would I make the BMW one fit ?
I guess I would make a dummy bracket out of aluminum then take it to
a machine shop and have them duplicate it in iron… just a thought.
It might be expensive to do, but if the sensor ever goes bad you
wouldn’t have to spend much on a replacement. You might even find one
at a junk yard for $30 . How about a crank sensor from a Marelli xjs?
The stock bracket for it might be worth taking a look at.
The sensor is from the AJ6, I think most of the money was for the custom
pulley but hey, what would I know ? Put it this way, I gave my car to a
supposed efi expert for fitting of an aftermarket programmable efi
system, it was there for 3 months, he couldn’t get a crank angle sensor
to work in the distributor, see the archives for details. After
consultation with the list one of the list members pointed me to a guy
who fabricated crank angle sensor kits for the 12 in NZ - after shipping
it cost me $600 AUD, at the time I probably would have happily paid
twice that…if can you show me how to manufacture them more cheaply
than I’m sure there’s going to be a number of very grateful list
members.
But what I’d like to know is where were you 4 months ago when I needed
the help 
PS Don’t forget that was Aussie dollars, divide by 2 for US…
John–
This mail is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and
grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to
be considered flaws or defects.
John Littler wrote:
Walter Petermann wrote:
Well, ok… it just seems high when compared to the cost of the ecu.
How many notches does the chopper blade have?6 “teeth” plus notch for tdc (or was it bdc I forget)
How would I make the BMW one fit ?
I guess I would make a dummy bracket out of aluminum then take it to
a machine shop and have them duplicate it in iron… just a thought.
It might be expensive to do, but if the sensor ever goes bad you
wouldn’t have to spend much on a replacement. You might even find one
at a junk yard for $30 . How about a crank sensor from a Marelli xjs?
The stock bracket for it might be worth taking a look at.The sensor is from the AJ6, I think most of the money was for the custom
pulley but hey, what would I know ? Put it this way, I gave my car to a
supposed efi expert for fitting of an aftermarket programmable efi
system, it was there for 3 months, he couldn’t get a crank angle sensor
to work in the distributor, see the archives for details.
I remember that. Weren’t you the guy that was trying to get the fuel
injection working so you could drive it to the ‘expert’ and have him
tear it all out? :). Then it seemed like the car disappeared into a black
hole and I didn’t see too many posts after that.
After
consultation with the list one of the list members pointed me to a guy
who fabricated crank angle sensor kits for the 12 in NZ - after shipping
it cost me $600 AUD, at the time I probably would have happily paid
twice that…
What the heck, might as well go with what you know is going to work.
if can you show me how to manufacture them more cheaply
than I’m sure there’s going to be a number of very grateful list
members.
There’s always a way. But, just to give you an example why you’d
want to get as far away from me as possible on a new project:
I would have tried drilling small holes on the original pulley then
tried to pick them up with a tape recorder head :). It ‘should’
work. Then, since the head would have to be very close to the pulley,
you could put a couple of tooth brush heads on each side to clean the
edge of the pulley as it goes around. Total cost might be under $10.
Now, ‘how can I help you’
But what I’d like to know is where were you 4 months ago when I needed
the help
See above…
Walter
PS The only car I could never get to run was a DeLorean.
Walter Petermann wrote:
…snip…
The sensor is from the AJ6, I think most of the money was for the custom
pulley but hey, what would I know ? Put it this way, I gave my car to a
supposed efi expert for fitting of an aftermarket programmable efi
system, it was there for 3 months, he couldn’t get a crank angle sensor
to work in the distributor, see the archives for details.I remember that. Weren’t you the guy that was trying to get the fuel
injection working so you could drive it to the ‘expert’ and have him
tear it all out? :). Then it seemed like the car disappeared into a black
hole and I didn’t see too many posts after that.
Yeah, I got it running enough to limp the 10kms to Parramatta where the
“expert” was going to put a flash new programmable Motec unit in…then
after 3 months of unreturned phone calls I ended up picking up the car
and bringing it back because they couldn’t get a distributor based crank
sensor to work (so he says). On the plus side they did fix the problem
that was causing it to keep cutting out (when they were putting it back
together they replaced a piece of wire that had an intermittent) - I
drove it for a month on the D Jet (while waiting for the crank sensor to
come in) and then the GM400 packed it in in Nov. just after I received
the sensor, so I never ended up fitting it, it stayed parked in the
front yard for 10 weeks until I could afford the manual box (I couldn’t
see the sense in paying $1000AUD for a rebuild on a tranny I was going
to pull back out again as soon as I could afford the $3K for a
manual…) So now I’ve got halfway through the tranny install I’m back
on the install the crank sensor and programmable efi. Except this time
instead of doing the expensive solution with all the bells and whistles
(Motec) I’m going with a cheap solution that another list member (Scott
Horner) has successfully implemented (Link) - about a 5th of the price
and it still does distributorless ignition and injection control so I’m
happy - who needs traction control ?
After
consultation with the list one of the list members pointed me to a guy
who fabricated crank angle sensor kits for the 12 in NZ - after shipping
it cost me $600 AUD, at the time I probably would have happily paid
twice that…What the heck, might as well go with what you know is going to work.
My sentiments exactly - at the time I just wanted something that I knew
would work.
if can you show me how to manufacture them more cheaply
than I’m sure there’s going to be a number of very grateful list
members.There’s always a way. But, just to give you an example why you’d
want to get as far away from me as possible on a new project:I would have tried drilling small holes on the original pulley then
tried to pick them up with a tape recorder head :). It ‘should’
work. Then, since the head would have to be very close to the pulley,
you could put a couple of tooth brush heads on each side to clean the
edge of the pulley as it goes around. Total cost might be under $10.Now, ‘how can I help you’
Au contraire - I’d be VERY happy to implement something like that. It
sounds like a rather good low cost way of doing it
BTW - do you know off hand why the D Jet would run ultra lean from off
idle to 3000rpm and then full fuel cuts in (it’s like a turbo - you get
triple the power in the about a tenth of a second - can be hard to keep
traction !!)
John–
This mail is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and
grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to
be considered flaws or defects.
John Littler wrote:
…
BTW - do you know off hand why the D Jet would run ultra lean from off
idle to 3000rpm and then full fuel cuts in (it’s like a turbo - you get
triple the power in the about a tenth of a second - can be hard to keep
traction !!)
After years not hearing of a lean pre-HE yours is the second one in a
week. Off hand I can think of a couple of reasons. One might be the
throttle switch not working properly. It’s supposed to send pulses to
the ecu as you open up the throttle. The other might be a bad MAP sensor.
There is an iron slug in there that is supposed to move inside a coil.
There isn’t much clearance between the slug and the coil housing. Maybe
it was getting stuck in the ‘high vacuum’ position then coming unstuck
suddenly when the pressure rose to a certain level.
One other thing could be the mechanical ignition advance getting mom.
stuck at the idle position. Are you sure it was a fuel problem?
WalterWalter Petermann wrote:
John Littler wrote:
…BTW - do you know off hand why the D Jet would run ultra lean from off
idle to 3000rpm and then full fuel cuts in (it’s like a turbo - you get
triple the power in the about a tenth of a second - can be hard to keep
traction !!)After years not hearing of a lean pre-HE yours is the second one in a
week. Off hand I can think of a couple of reasons. One might be the
throttle switch not working properly. It’s supposed to send pulses to
the ecu as you open up the throttle. The other might be a bad MAP sensor.
There is an iron slug in there that is supposed to move inside a coil.
There isn’t much clearance between the slug and the coil housing. Maybe
it was getting stuck in the ‘high vacuum’ position then coming unstuck
suddenly when the pressure rose to a certain level.One other thing could be the mechanical ignition advance getting mom.
stuck at the idle position. Are you sure it was a fuel problem?Walter
Ok, here’s the symptoms, tell me if you reckon is running lean or not:
Idles fine, when you take off you can’t give it a lot of throttle
otherwise it bogs down and won’t rev - if you’re light on the throttle
you can gradually wind up the revs, once you get to 3 grand it behaves
“normally” ie you can hold partial throttle or you can put the boot to
the floor and it responds. It’s exactly the sort of response you get if
you put too big a carb on an engine so flipsiding it into efi terms -
not enough fuel (as opposed to too much air - same difference).
John–
This mail is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and
grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to
be considered flaws or defects.
John Littler wrote:
…
Ok, here’s the symptoms, tell me if you reckon is running lean or not:
Idles fine, when you take off you can’t give it a lot of throttle
otherwise it bogs down and won’t rev - if you’re light on the throttle
you can gradually wind up the revs, once you get to 3 grand it behaves
“normally” ie you can hold partial throttle or you can put the boot to
the floor and it responds. It’s exactly the sort of response you get if
you put too big a carb on an engine so flipsiding it into efi terms -
not enough fuel (as opposed to too much air - same difference).
That sounds lean…
Here’s the way the throttle position enrichment works, see if it
fits in with your description.
The acceleration pulses are generated up to a throttle position
of about 45 degrees. Then there’s a couple of degrees where nothing
happens. From about 50 degrees on, the full throttle signal is
triggered. If the pulse part of the throttle switch is bad, you’d
get poor response until you pass the 50 degree throttle position.
WalterThanks Walter
The bit that puzzles me about it being a throttle switch issue is that
once you get wound up above 3000 you get full functionality - ie it
doesn’t bog down when you floor it - it just makes that wonderful scream
I’ll definitely test them anyway - I assume the test is in the ROM ?
John
Walter Petermann wrote:>
John Littler wrote:
…Ok, here’s the symptoms, tell me if you reckon is running lean or not:
Idles fine, when you take off you can’t give it a lot of throttle
otherwise it bogs down and won’t rev - if you’re light on the throttle
you can gradually wind up the revs, once you get to 3 grand it behaves
“normally” ie you can hold partial throttle or you can put the boot to
the floor and it responds. It’s exactly the sort of response you get if
you put too big a carb on an engine so flipsiding it into efi terms -
not enough fuel (as opposed to too much air - same difference).That sounds lean…
Here’s the way the throttle position enrichment works, see if it
fits in with your description.The acceleration pulses are generated up to a throttle position
of about 45 degrees. Then there’s a couple of degrees where nothing
happens. From about 50 degrees on, the full throttle signal is
triggered. If the pulse part of the throttle switch is bad, you’d
get poor response until you pass the 50 degree throttle position.Walter
–
This mail is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and
grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to
be considered flaws or defects.