[xj-s] The last word on "tiny turbos" hopefully

Chris, Both supercharging and turbo-supercharging are done on aircraft, and
both are used together on some Diesel engines used for fixed operation. I
once say two Cat Diesel engines ganged together to drive a generator to run
a gold extracting machine. It (they) had both mechanical superchargers and
turbos. Also in aviation there is a little trick you may want to experiment
with called “turbo compounding” where power recovery turbines are exhaust
driven and geared back into the crankshaft to increase power to the
propeller. The best solution for your heavily modified XJ-S would be a trick
used in a high altitude four engined bomber. In it a fifth engine was
installed in the fuselage which ran a compressor to supercharge the four
engines on the wings. You could mount a small engine such as the Suzuki 3
cylinder in the trunk and use it to power a screw compressor. A second plus
would be to use the APU (auxiliary power unit) to run all of your
accessories. Imagine how neat the engine compartment would be with no
alternator, power steering pump, air conditioning compressor etc. In
addition, the added weight of the secondary engine would add traction which
would be necessary when this massive increase in power attempted to spin
your rear tires into smoke and molten rubber. Watch out, Bradley Smith, here
comes the next supercar.
Tom Wilson (87 gray single engined slug)

I can get you any results you like…
What’s it worth to ya? Don Henley_______________________________________________________
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/

Tom-

Way too complicated! My Sears leaf blower puts out 210 mph and its only
$89.00. Put one on each bank driven by a power inverter like my boat
has :slight_smile:

Joe— Tom Wilson red-dog100@excite.com wrote:

Chris, Both supercharging and turbo-supercharging are done on
aircraft, and
both are used together on some Diesel engines used for fixed
operation. I
once say two Cat Diesel engines ganged together to drive a generator
to run
a gold extracting machine. It (they) had both mechanical
superchargers and
turbos. Also in aviation there is a little trick you may want to
experiment
with called “turbo compounding” where power recovery turbines are
exhaust
driven and geared back into the crankshaft to increase power to the
propeller. The best solution for your heavily modified XJ-S would be
a trick
used in a high altitude four engined bomber. In it a fifth engine was
installed in the fuselage which ran a compressor to supercharge the
four
engines on the wings. You could mount a small engine such as the
Suzuki 3
cylinder in the trunk and use it to power a screw compressor. A
second plus
would be to use the APU (auxiliary power unit) to run all of your
accessories. Imagine how neat the engine compartment would be with no
alternator, power steering pump, air conditioning compressor etc. In
addition, the added weight of the secondary engine would add traction
which
would be necessary when this massive increase in power attempted to
spin
your rear tires into smoke and molten rubber. Watch out, Bradley
Smith, here
comes the next supercar.
Tom Wilson (87 gray single engined slug)

I can get you any results you like…
What’s it worth to ya? Don Henley


Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/

=====
We started out with nothing. We still have most of it.


Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com

Way too complicated! My Sears leaf blower puts out 210 mph and its only
$89.00. Put one on each bank driven by a power inverter like my boat
has.

It’ s not going to add pressure.

Reminds me when I tried to trim my nose hair with a lawn- mower.

Anyway, after paying 1000 bucks to fix my steering rack, the cost for a 5-
speed, or even supercharging isn’ t that high. And no hp was added for my
steering rack rebuild. I mean I threw that money away simply because the
stupid steering rack was leaking.

So, I might as well go on and supercharge the beast to get over this
headache about air- intake mods (this is not a joke). I haven’t seen
remarkable increase in hp from the mods I’ ve done already, so something
tells me if i go on buying all these gadgets and gizmos that promise more
power, finally I’ ll end up with empty wallet and a worthless car.

I am sick of having subarus, miatas and neons tailgating me by the way. I
am driving a jaguar for god’ s sake. If i wanted subarus at my tail, I’ d
have bought and subaru and mod- ded it up a little bit.

And it’ s not so difficult to supercharge as I see it. Just mount 2
superchargers and plug them on a computer.

Chris,
90 XJS.

Chris,

I am going to try VERY hard (and I mean like you would not believe) to not
lash out at you after that post.

$1,000 to replace a steering rack? My God, why didn’t you just call up Greg
Wells and have him send you one? For that matter I have a freshly-rebuilt one
you could’ve bought from me for what I paid (a lot less than $1,000) and
installed it yourself. Granted that’s a lot more difficult with the engine in
but with a friend with half as much knowledge as I have (and I have about 0
knowledge so 0/2 = 0) you could probably do it without a huge amount of
difficulty.

And if you think supercharging is simple, you couldn’t be further from the
truth. Anytime you do a mod as severe as that you’re going to end up putting
a lot of time and effort in. It’s also expensive. Explain to me where you’re
getting this money, because I can’t figure it out. Not to mention the
complications you’ll have in getting it to work properly. If you want to do
something that will significantly increase your acceleration and fun-factor
go with a 5-speed and a 3.54 rear end.

I had my doubts before, but at this point I am officially convinced that you
do not own a Jaguar. I just… my brain… comprehension… none…

Sorry, that post just gave me a need to vent.

-Ted
'82 XJS – 5.3L V12 '82 XJS – 0.0L V0 '98 Volvo S70 GLT – 2.4L I5
Turbo
http://dupuisent.mine.nu/cars/82xjs <-- pictures of my OLD Jag AIM:
FordCrusherGT
New York City, NY

It’ s not going to add pressure.

a single leafblower added plenty of pressure to a friend’s 2 stroke briggs
lawnmower. certainly made it faster. not a whole hell of a lot, but enough
to REALLY notice.

Reminds me when I tried to trim my nose hair with a lawn- mower.

lemme guess, it had the result of extracting the common sense part of your
brain through your left nostril…

I am sick of having subarus, miatas and neons tailgating me by the way. I
am driving a jaguar for god’ s sake. If i wanted subarus at my tail, I’ d
have bought and subaru and mod- ded it up a little bit.

hehe. the subrau wrx goes 0 to 60 as fast as a 911 carrera. your jag is
the horsepower and handling equivalent of a midget compared to that wrx.

don’t worry about them being on your butt all the time, most jag owners
drive like they own the road and couldn’t give a honda* how fast they were
going… you just fit in with the rest of the jag crowd when you drive
slowly… you want to keep the ricers off of you, go buy a ford galaxy 500
and put a 429 shotgun motor in it. your jag doesn’t need to run like a 2
stroke volvo to be fun to drive…

And it’ s not so difficult to supercharge as I see it. Just mount 2
superchargers and plug them on a computer.

bwahahahahahahahhaha. NO. if it were that easy there wouldn’t be a sports
car in america that wasn’t supercharged. and the local napa/kragan/autozone
would probably stock superchargers so you could buy em right over the
counter. (note, for those of you who will try to tell me that your kragan
has a supercharger in stock, that model in the showroom is fake and they
will have to order you one.)

jason

  • that is my new expletive.

And it’ s not so difficult to supercharge as I see it. Just mount 2
superchargers and plug them on a computer.

And replace the rods for some shorter ones to lower the compression… And
replace pistons with forged ones so that they don’t melt within 30 seconds of
starting up the car…

This normally means a complete engine rebuild.

While you’re at it, you might as well get a long-stroke crank as well. And
get the head flowed. Or maybe you should go the pre-HE head route for
tuneability. Or maybe 48 valve quad cam conversion with 6 webber carbs.

The question is very simple - where do you draw the line? Unfortunately, once
you start modifying things for more power, you face a very steep cut-off with
the law of diminishing returns. The standard engine will cost you about 2,000
UKP reconditioned. The 8.6 litre conversion is likely to set you back about
8,000 UKP, just for the extra cost of parts. Supercharging costs would come
on top of that, and you are looking at at least a similar amount on top for a
couple of decent superchargers. And if you’re going to go that silly, then
you might want to also fit quad turbos as well, just for good measure. At
that point, you might as well also get someone like AJ6 engineering to do you
a one-off custom built 48 valve quad cam engine. The problem is that at that
point we are talking about the total costs that seriously exceed the amount a
vast majority of normal mortals (even Jaguar driving ones) makes in a year
(or even several years).

And over 500 bhp (which you are likely to exceed by the time you implement
all of the above), you’ll need to strengthen the chasis, add additional
engine mounts, anchor in the subframes better, and probably widen the wheel
arches and change the axle geometry to be able to fit “steam roler” style
wide tyres.

But why bother? You are unlikely to get your 0-100 time down to under 4
seconds due to traction limitations, and even if your car could do 300 mph,
would you really want to do it?

I’ve been thinking about all this for a while now. Once you open the can of
worms that is engine upgrading, you should probably prepare to take out a
second mortgage, and do it all at once, because at least you can do
everything at the same time. Oh, and the engine is likely to need a rebuild
around the 300,000 mile mark, even with over-maintenance - and the cost of
parts alone would go to around 5 figures.

If I ever win the lottery… :wink:

Regards.

Gordan

And it’ s not so difficult to supercharge as I see it. Just mount 2
superchargers and plug them on a computer.

Chris,
90 XJS.

Shoot, Bradley, does that mean you’ve been sandbagging us? :wink:

JohnOn Thu, 1 Nov 2001 christky@bellatlantic.net wrote:

At 19:02 2001-11-01 -0500, JGN wrote:>On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 christky@bellatlantic.net wrote:

And it’ s not so difficult to supercharge as I see it. Just mount 2
superchargers and plug them on a computer.

Shoot, Bradley, does that mean you’ve been sandbagging us? :wink:

Bradley is going to kill me for this, but fact is, the early photographs of
the so-called blowers on his car clearly show that there’s just a small CPU
fan in each of them, mounted in a dixie-cup - the housings are big just
because nobody would believe the power you can get out of a CPU fan, and if
everybody knew, then supercharging wouldn’t be special.

Since Christky’s let the cat out of the bag (thanks a lot), there’s no
sense in keeping it secret any more: the trick is to use the ones with
six-bladed fans and boost and regulate their voltage to run them at
precisely
3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078 times
the rpm of the engine, to induce an odd-harmonic superflow of air into the
intake. This is what the surplus cray supercomputer is necessary for -
regulating the voltage to keep the fans spinning to generate this precise
harmonic. You can also make the engine rev faster if you use that
snake-oil teflon oil and drain it all out – then the pistons have less
resistance from the oil, and the added heat works to your advantage as it
provides convection for the cool air, preheating it - and the fuel - the
instant it all enters the cylinder. Don’t worry about burning the engine
up - the CPU fans will keep it plenty cool.

Yep, supercharging is a piece 'o cake - and cheap too. The people who’ve
done it just want you to think it’s complicated and expensive. Christky is
onto something here, and I await seeing how his leafblower-supercharged car
stacks up against Bradley’s modest entry.

  • Sean ( with appologies to Bradley for taking it a step further ) Straw

http://jaguar.professional.org/
Sean Straw '88 Jaguar XJSC 5.3L V12 (LHD) ‘Black Cat’ 63K
Marin County, California '85 Jaguar XJS 5.3L V12 (LHD) ‘Bad Kitty’ 210K
'69 Buick GranSport 455 V8 324K

Hi chris -

Sounds like a nice project for you to do in the week or two left
before you cocoon your car for the winter…

Do please post pics when you have it up and running in its new
supercharged condition…

$1K to fix a leaking rack? You must be made of money, laddie, and
you’ll be needing it by the time you have figured out your
supercharging set-up given your unwillingness to either do your
homework or learn from the experience of more mature - note: I did
not say older - and wiser people around you…

You know, chris, even the funniest joke becomes stale if it is
repeated too often…

Cheers,
Loudon- who is *not * tolerating fools gladly tonight…
85 VdP6, Josephine, 77K miles
86 VdP12, Gypsy, 114K kms

At 18:16 -0500 11.1.01, christky@bellatlantic.net wrote:

So, I might as well go on and supercharge the beast to get over this
headache about air- intake mods (this is not a joke). I haven’t
seen remarkable increase in hp from the mods I’ ve done already, so
something tells me if i go on buying all these gadgets and gizmos
that promise more power, finally I’ ll end up with empty wallet and
a worthless car.

Not to mention the complications you’ll have in getting it to work properly.

And what complications are there? It’ s a bolt- on thing isn’ t it?

Chris,
90 XJS

hehe. the subaru wrx goes 0 to 60 as fast as a 911 carrera. your jag is
the horsepower and handling equivalent of a midget compared to that wrx.

He, he. I’ d like to see your subaru 0- 90mph. They all say this until
the jag reaches the 5000 rpm range. I have fun looking at them - the
faster cars - pulling away from me temporarily. Those with a 6- speed
manual and AWD do have the advantage but only in the lower rpm region.
It’ s funny they are in 3rd gear while my auto 1st gear hasn’ t yet reached
its power zone.

Just take off some weight from your jag, put the cold air mod with free
flow air filters, and you won’ t even have to open up the exhaust to give
some competition to those corvettes.

Good day,

Chris,
90 XJS
P.S. Let me find out what is wrong with my hypothetical jag’ s cigarette
lighter adapter plug - there is a short and it burns the fuse - and I’ ll
put my G- Tech in service to record some numbers for you all.

Sean,

I’m waiting to see who’s going to bite on your posting. And you did it
without biting poor old Chris this time. I guess you bit your tongue.

I wonder how old Chris is, and what he did for Hallowe’en?

Len Olsen.
Tucson. '85 XJ-S HE Coupe.----- Original Message -----
From: “Sean Straw” sean.straw+Jaguar@mail.professional.org
To: xj-s@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [xj-s] The last word on “tiny turbos” hopefully

SNIP

ROTFLMAO!

Thanks, Sean, I needed that tonight!

Cheers,
Loudon-

At 16:45 -0800 11.1.01, Sean Straw wrote:

the trick is to use the ones with six-bladed fans and boost and
regulate their voltage to run them at precisely
3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078
times the rpm of the engine, to induce an odd-harmonic superflow of
air into the intake. This is what the surplus cray supercomputer is
necessary for - regulating the voltage to keep the fans spinning to
generate this precise harmonic.

<snipalong,snipalongadooda>>

Sean-

Man oh man, you saved the day for me! You have no idea how many CPU
fans I’ve been through until I saw this post of yours- then it hit me.
I’ve been running mine at 22/7 times engine RPM, not 3.14159… as
you’ve so aptly point out.

Makes all the difference in the world- like getting hit in the face
with a pie or something.

I wonder if you could control GAS powered leaf blowers this tight? Then
you wouldn’t need the 110 VAC inverter for the elctric leaf blowers. Or
do they sell marine leaf blowers? They’d already be wired for 12 volts.

Joe— Sean Straw sean.straw+Jaguar@mail.professional.org wrote:

At 19:02 2001-11-01 -0500, JGN wrote:

On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 christky@bellatlantic.net wrote:

And it’ s not so difficult to supercharge as I see it. Just
mount 2

superchargers and plug them on a computer.

Shoot, Bradley, does that mean you’ve been sandbagging us? :wink:

Bradley is going to kill me for this, but fact is, the early
photographs of
the so-called blowers on his car clearly show that there’s just a
small CPU
fan in each of them, mounted in a dixie-cup - the housings are big
just
because nobody would believe the power you can get out of a CPU fan,
and if
everybody knew, then supercharging wouldn’t be special.

Since Christky’s let the cat out of the bag (thanks a lot), there’s
no
sense in keeping it secret any more: the trick is to use the ones
with
six-bladed fans and boost and regulate their voltage to run them at
precisely
3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078
times
the rpm of the engine, to induce an odd-harmonic superflow of air
into the
intake. This is what the surplus cray supercomputer is necessary for

regulating the voltage to keep the fans spinning to generate this
precise
harmonic. You can also make the engine rev faster if you use that
snake-oil teflon oil and drain it all out – then the pistons have
less
resistance from the oil, and the added heat works to your advantage
as it
provides convection for the cool air, preheating it - and the fuel -
the
instant it all enters the cylinder. Don’t worry about burning the
engine
up - the CPU fans will keep it plenty cool.

Yep, supercharging is a piece 'o cake - and cheap too. The people
who’ve
done it just want you to think it’s complicated and expensive.
Christky is
onto something here, and I await seeing how his
leafblower-supercharged car
stacks up against Bradley’s modest entry.

  • Sean ( with appologies to Bradley for taking it a step further )
    Straw

http://jaguar.professional.org/
Sean Straw '88 Jaguar XJSC 5.3L V12 (LHD) ‘Black
Cat’ 63K
Marin County, California '85 Jaguar XJS 5.3L V12 (LHD) ‘Bad
Kitty’ 210K
'69 Buick GranSport 455 V8 324K

=====
We started out with nothing. We still have most of it.


Do You Yahoo!?
Find a job, post your resume.

At 18:56 2001-11-01 -0800, joe bialy wrote:

Man oh man, you saved the day for me! You have no idea how many CPU
fans I’ve been through until I saw this post of yours- then it hit me.
I’ve been running mine at 22/7 times engine RPM, not 3.14159… as
you’ve so aptly point out.

Well, to be fair, the cray needs to maintain it to about 500 digits, but
there’s no need to pick nits.

(This was, in fact, how the infamous Pentium math bug was first discovered

  • someone’s V-12 shredded itself on an amplified even harmonic due to a
    failed math computation when they hit a certain RPM).

Makes all the difference in the world- like getting hit in the face
with a pie or something.

I wonder if you could control GAS powered leaf blowers this tight?

No way. And while the jet turbine leaf blowers are really powerful, the
spindown latency simply doesn’t allow for keeping it in sync with the
engine rpm. Nothing like letting up off the throttle plate and having the
jet turbine continue to pump 108Kcfm of air into the heads while you’re
trying to let the engine come to idle…

Then you wouldn’t need the 110 VAC inverter for the elctric leaf blowers. Or
do they sell marine leaf blowers?

MARINE leaf blowers cost a small fortune, but damn, they’re powerful: One
must realize that it takes a LOT more wind to blow leaves on water, because
they have a tendancy to stick on the surface.

They’d already be wired for 12 volts.

The marine leaf blowers I’ve seen are wired for 24 because of the higher
amperage they pull, which means if you were to adopt one (two!) to the
V-12, you’d have to pull the smog pump and replace it with a 24V alternator.

  • Sean ( done blowing steam ) Straw

http://jaguar.professional.org/
Sean Straw '88 Jaguar XJSC 5.3L V12 (LHD) ‘Black Cat’ 63K
Marin County, California '85 Jaguar XJS 5.3L V12 (LHD) ‘Bad Kitty’ 210K
'69 Buick GranSport 455 V8 324K

You know, chris, even the funniest joke becomes stale if it is repeated
too often…

Here’ s some new jokes for you then. This list is hilarious! Hilarious, I
tell you! Your post for example! How can I NOT make jokes!

$1K to fix a leaking rack? You must be made of money, laddie…

If I were really made of money I wouldn’ t be called christky, I’ d be
called… Mr. Moneybags!

It took me 2 years to raise that money to fix my leaking steering rack and
as I result I am so poor now, I can only afford 1- legged pants!
(not to mention I am still running win95).

Chris,
90 XJS

Hi chris -

Sounds like a nice project for you to do in the week or two left before
you cocoon your car for the winter…

What week or two, I’ ll have the thing supercharged in less time it takes
to change the spark plugs.

Let’ s face it. The stock XJS appears as if it was built by a woman. It
desperately needs a man’ s touch to make things right, especially around
the engine bay. By god, I’ ll supercharge it!

Chris,
90 XJS.

Chris, sweetie, so were you.> Let’ s face it. The stock XJS appears as if it was built by a woman.

Let’ s face it. The stock XJS appears as if it was built by a woman.

Chris, sweetie, so were you.

Yes, in fact I am a girly, Italian, big fashion designer. I came up with
this new turban to sell to Taliban in Afghan. From top view, it has a red
round circle… and a bull’ s eye in the middle.

Chris,
90 XJS.

Chris,

I am going to respectfully ask that you stop. You obviously are trying to
gain attention those who you admire (thank you, we’re all flattered I’m
sure), however this same method that children of the age of 5 use isn’t very
tasteful in someone who I ASSUME is an adult (pretty big assumption).

For a while there I actually thought that you had changed since your eMails
were actually sensible. You were asking questions that I personally didn’t
mind answering (at least if I knew the answer). Try going back to that.
You’re reverting to your former self which prompted such enteties as
“chris_d_idiot” (which by the way I did NOT endorse). Currently if you’re
actually doing this stuff you’re endangering your life and the lives of
others on the road. If not, you’re causing a lot of aggravation on a list of
really great people who don’t deserve it.

Thank you.

-Ted
'82 XJS – 5.3L V12 '82 XJS – 0.0L V0 '98 Volvo S70 GLT – 2.4L I5
Turbo
http://dupuisent.mine.nu/cars/82xjs <-- pics of my OLD Jag, not new one
AIM: FordCrusherGT New York City, NY