[xj] SERIES III WINDOW RUST

Recently one of our fellow XJ associates in Australia mentioned that all
or most of the Series II and III cars he has dealt with, at a local auto
wrecker, rust around the windshield and rear glass. He also mentioned
that the Series I doesn’t rust.

  1. What’s the difference in the series I and the II/III models?
  2. Is there a way to better seal the front and rear glass aperture from
    rust?

Regards, Lew Plummer
86 SERIES III

Lew

I don’t know about the S2, but the S3 window rubber is in 2 pieces, and there is an air space between the inner rubber and the body opening. (The outer rubber is just a pretty finishing strip - it looks nice)

The rust happens because the water gets in and lies on the metal, and rust is the inevitable result. Gregory wrote quite eloquently and lucidly on the subject a few weeks ago.

To stop it happening the only thing to do IMHO is to get plenty of sealer in behind the inner rubber and eliminate ALL the air. If air & water can’t get in, it can’t rust. This, of course, is not as easy to do as it sounds.

BTW, I don’t think it’s a good idea to use silicone sealer. I think that stuff promotes rust.

Evan
Melbourne, Oz.-----Original Message-----
From: Lew Plummer [SMTP:jayhawk@sos.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 1:27 PM
To: XJ6 Jag Lovers
Subject: [xj] SERIES III WINDOW RUST

Recently one of our fellow XJ associates in Australia mentioned that all
or most of the Series II and III cars he has dealt with, at a local auto
wrecker, rust around the windshield and rear glass. He also mentioned
that the Series I doesn’t rust.

  1. What’s the difference in the series I and the II/III models?
  2. Is there a way to better seal the front and rear glass aperture from
    rust?

Regards, Lew Plummer
86 SERIES III

BTW, I don’t think it’s a good idea to use silicone sealer. I
think that stuff promotes rust.

AARGH! That’s bad news - I did this to mine earlier this year after new
screens had been fitted with the inevitible air gap. I pulled the
rubbers and used Dow Corning automotive silicone sealant (Black. It
said that it would do windows). You trying to tell me that I’ve sealed
it with a rust promoter?

Any idea where this idea came from?

Craig

Craig

That was told to me years ago by someone in the auto trade. I’ve also seen
it discussed on this list - something to do with the way it cures, I think.
I’ll have a poke around the archives when I have time

Evan-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Sawyers [SMTP:c.sawyers@tech-enterprise.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 4:45 PM
To: ‘Evan Thompson’; ‘Lew Plummer’; ‘XJ6 Jag Lovers’
Subject: RE: [xj] SERIES III WINDOW RUST

BTW, I don’t think it’s a good idea to use silicone sealer. I
think that stuff promotes rust.

AARGH! That’s bad news - I did this to mine earlier this year after new
screens had been fitted with the inevitible air gap. I pulled the
rubbers and used Dow Corning automotive silicone sealant (Black. It
said that it would do windows). You trying to tell me that I’ve sealed
it with a rust promoter?

Any idea where this idea came from?

Craig

Mind you, I’d hazard a guess that silicone sealer is better than nothing at all :slight_smile:

Evan-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Sawyers [SMTP:c.sawyers@tech-enterprise.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 4:45 PM
To: ‘Evan Thompson’; ‘Lew Plummer’; ‘XJ6 Jag Lovers’
Subject: RE: [xj] SERIES III WINDOW RUST

BTW, I don’t think it’s a good idea to use silicone sealer. I
think that stuff promotes rust.

AARGH! That’s bad news - I did this to mine earlier this year after new
screens had been fitted with the inevitible air gap. I pulled the
rubbers and used Dow Corning automotive silicone sealant (Black. It
said that it would do windows). You trying to tell me that I’ve sealed
it with a rust promoter?

Any idea where this idea came from?

Craig

A nonsensical notion. How can sealant promote rust in istelf, other than
possibly TRAPPING the water?
Gregory----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Sawyers c.sawyers@tech-enterprise.co.uk
To: ‘Evan Thompson’ ethompson@nexus.edu.au; ‘Lew Plummer’
jayhawk@sos.net; ‘XJ6 Jag Lovers’ xj@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 11:44 PM
Subject: RE: [xj] SERIES III WINDOW RUST

BTW, I don’t think it’s a good idea to use silicone sealer. I
think that stuff promotes rust.

AARGH! That’s bad news - I did this to mine earlier this year after new
screens had been fitted with the inevitible air gap. I pulled the
rubbers and used Dow Corning automotive silicone sealant (Black. It
said that it would do windows). You trying to tell me that I’ve sealed
it with a rust promoter?

Any idea where this idea came from?

Craig

At 07:44 AM 10/19/99 +0100, you wrote:

BTW, I don’t think it’s a good idea to use silicone sealer. I
think that stuff promotes rust.

AARGH! That’s bad news - I did this to mine earlier this year after new
screens had been fitted with the inevitible air gap. I pulled the
rubbers and used Dow Corning automotive silicone sealant (Black. It
said that it would do windows). You trying to tell me that I’ve sealed
it with a rust promoter?

I don’t think so.

Any idea where this idea came from?

I think from “DOT 5” silicon brake fluid which can absorb moisture and rust
brake lines. It remains a liquid while the sealant hardens (still flexible
though) and I would think it would not be able to absorb moisture. Just my
.02 worth.>

Craig

:
:: > BTW, I don’t think it’s a good idea to use silicone sealer. I
:: > think that stuff promotes rust.
::
:: AARGH! That’s bad news - I did this to mine earlier this year after new
:: screens had been fitted with the inevitible air gap. I pulled the
:: rubbers and used Dow Corning automotive silicone sealant (Black. It
:: said that it would do windows). You trying to tell me that I’ve sealed
:: it with a rust promoter?
::
:: Any idea where this idea came from?

I believe it has to do with the acetic acid generated (released?) by
the curing process in some silicone sealants (particularly the early
versions and the cheap ones). This acid isn’t very strong but it is
sealed in contact with the metal and just hangs around. A good coat
of paint will probably protect against it (such as epoxy primer or any
top coat). If you check labels carefully some sealants don’t release
acid during curing and – I think – won’t cause any trouble.

-Roland
a ‘ringer’ new '96 XJR owner
first Jag since an XK120 in 1960

I think from “DOT 5” silicon brake fluid which can absorb moisture and rust
brake lines. It remains a liquid while the sealant hardens (still flexible
though) and I would think it would not be able to absorb moisture. Just my
.02 worth.

DOT 5 silicon fluid does not absorb H2O like standard brake fluid. The
regular fluid has to be flushed to eliminate absorbed water periodically.
DOT 5 mixed with regular fluid (sorry don’t recall the DOT #) will cause
serious problems.

To convert to DOT 5, one must either replace the entire system or flush
with alcohol. The alcohol absorbs H2O and cleans out the old fluid. Then
flush with DOT 5 and refill. The whole thing is easier if you rebuild the
calipers and master cylinder rather than trying to flush out all the old
fluid. You still have to flush the lines. Once the system is DOT 5, you
should never have problems with moisture or corrosion again.

Because it does not absorb moisture it does not cause fade when hot from
heavy braking.
In the normal system, absorbed H2O is heated to boiling. Then being a gas
it is compressed when the brake is applied and it lowers the braking force.
DOT 5 will not boil and therefore will not fade.

Dr. Michael E. Rothman

I don’t know much about the automotive stuff but ‘bathroom’ silicone sealant
contains acetic acid (a la vinegar) - somewhat corrosive. I’d imagine that
the automotive stuff contains a substitute…

Rich Lumb
�89 SIII V12 Moorlands Green/Doeskin: �La Fe� Verte�

BTW, I don’t think it’s a good idea to use silicone sealer. I
think that stuff promotes rust.

…Any idea where this idea came from?

Craig

I’ve used it very successfully on other cars, even after rust had set in – no
more afterward. The key is to scrape off most rust and prime with something
like Rustoleum primer, then use the newer (GE Silicone II) products, that can
be painted, because they don’t have the water-vinegar base of original
silicones, like Silastic. Anyone remember that smell? Of course, if you seal
only the lower edge of something, and water still has a path in, you’re just
creating a long-term water-storage area, so more corrosion. Be sure to seal
the top edges well first.

ALex
79xj6

Evan Thompson wrote:>

Mind you, I’d hazard a guess that silicone sealer is better than nothing at all :slight_smile:

Evan

-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Sawyers [SMTP:c.sawyers@tech-enterprise.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 4:45 PM
To: ‘Evan Thompson’; ‘Lew Plummer’; ‘XJ6 Jag Lovers’
Subject: RE: [xj] SERIES III WINDOW RUST

BTW, I don’t think it’s a good idea to use silicone sealer. I
think that stuff promotes rust.

AARGH! That’s bad news - I did this to mine earlier this year after new
screens had been fitted with the inevitible air gap. I pulled the
rubbers and used Dow Corning automotive silicone sealant (Black. It
said that it would do windows). You trying to tell me that I’ve sealed
it with a rust promoter?

Any idea where this idea came from?

Craig

I believe the problem is with the type of Silicone being referred to. The
original, marketed invention was called Silastic and cured by releasing acetic
acid (vinegar) and absorbed water. This is obviously not the choice for steel
parts. It was used to seal and ‘pot’ electronic gear to be effectively solid
and immune thereafter to water penetration (also then unrepairable). Since
electronic components (ok, except Lucas) don’t use exposed steel, curing
wasn’t troublesome. Early commercial products cured the same way, but those
like GE Silicone II are closer to being oil based and don’t add a risk of
corroding steel parts.

Note that the purpose of Silicone is to be as impenetrable and inert as can
be. So a good seal, even at fairly high temps, will be a natural effect of its
proper use. Silicone brake fluid should absorb no moisture, while we know
regular fluid readily does.

I’ve used the clear or black Silicone II for sealing windows for years, with
no problem. You just need to work fast around fine finishes and glass, to be
sure no residue is exposed to ruin the appearance – mineral oil will remove
it before it cures. Also, close the tube with a long nail, since curing in
the neck will occur and you’ll have trouble using the rest of the tube.

Alex
79xj6

Michael Aiken wrote:>

At 07:44 AM 10/19/99 +0100, you wrote:

BTW, I don’t think it’s a good idea to use silicone sealer. I
think that stuff promotes rust.

AARGH! That’s bad news - I did this to mine earlier this year after new
screens had been fitted with the inevitible air gap. I pulled the
rubbers and used Dow Corning automotive silicone sealant (Black. It
said that it would do windows). You trying to tell me that I’ve sealed
it with a rust promoter?

I don’t think so.

Any idea where this idea came from?

I think from “DOT 5” silicon brake fluid which can absorb moisture and rust
brake lines. It remains a liquid while the sealant hardens (still flexible
though) and I would think it would not be able to absorb moisture. Just my
.02 worth.

Craig