is there different gear ratios in the euro spec. jaguars compaired
to the us spec jaguars in the steering rack? I know in the bmw cars
there is a difference.–
1983 xj6 Jaguar cobalt blue
Mannheim, Germany
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
greetings all,
I’ve just finished installing new outer tie rod ends as well as
anti sway bar bushings (red poly) and end links(2 and 5/8,is this
the problem?).I followed the advise of many of you on doing this
and am confident everything was done correctly(of course I’ve
doubled and even triple checked).I then had the steering
aligned ‘‘professionally’’,the toe was off quite a bit apparantly,re-
adjusted from 1.99 to 0.06 on the left and from 0.68 to 0.04 on the
right,camber and castor were within acceptable range.the total
front toe was brought to 0.10 from 2.67…After doing this the
steering became very erratic,especially at higher speeds,seems to
want to follow the contours of the road,all over the road in other
words.the steering rack seems tight although there was some fluid
in the dust covers.
tires are good.the ‘‘professional’’ seems to think it must be the
steering rack,but I am not positive of this since it handled
beautifully before I started working on the front end aside from
the bad outer rod.could the sway bushings be wrong?I’ve read
everything I could find in the archives and am still at a loss.any
suggestions would be apreciated.
Chris
87xj6
Black with wires–
chris87
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from chris87 sent Sun 13 Jul 2008:
Hi Chris, From what you say, surely the alignment was right before
being re-set, not after? I would set toe in the 2 - 3 mm range.
Your symptoms could also result from insufficient caster, The inner
tie rod ends could be dodgy, or the rack to sub frame bushes might
be tired. How well qualified was the alignment technician, and how
long since his machinery was calibrated? This wants to be less than
six months.
If there’s fluid in the dust covers the rack needs a rebuild.–
The original message included these comments:
I’ve just finished installing new outer tie rod ends as well as
anti sway bar bushings (red poly) and end links(2 and 5/8,is this
doubled and even triple checked).I then had the steering
aligned ‘‘professionally’’,the toe was off quite a bit apparantly,re-
adjusted from 1.99 to 0.06 on the left and from 0.68 to 0.04 on the
right,camber and castor were within acceptable range.the total
front toe was brought to 0.10 from 2.67…After doing this the
steering became very erratic,especially at higher speeds,seems to
want to follow the contours of the road,all over the road in other
words.the steering rack seems tight although there was some fluid
in the dust covers.
In reply to a message from Nev.W sent Sun 13 Jul 2008:
hi nev.
actually,the problem started after replacing the end links and
bushes of the sway bar and tie rod ends before the alignment was
done,hence the rush to get it aligned.the rack was fine beforehand.
the alignment was done by computer at the local sears auto center
according to specs of jag xj6 79-87 which he got from database.I’m
wodering if the sway bar bushing kit was the right size.–
The original message included these comments:
Hi Chris, From what you say, surely the alignment was right before
being re-set, not after? I would set toe in the 2 - 3 mm range.
Your symptoms could also result from insufficient caster, The inner
tie rod ends could be dodgy, or the rack to sub frame bushes might
I’ve just finished installing new outer tie rod ends as well as
anti sway bar bushings (red poly) and end links(2 and 5/8,is this
aligned ‘‘professionally’’,the toe was off quite a bit apparantly,re-
front toe was brought to 0.10 from 2.67…After doing this the
steering became very erratic,especially at higher speeds,seems to
want to follow the contours of the road,all over the road in other
In reply to a message from chris87 sent Sun 13 Jul 2008:
Double and triple check that you installed the link bushings to the
sway bar correctly. I had the bottom bushings missing on one of
these and had the same symptoms you described. Installing new
bushings fixed the issue. You may have installed the new ones
incorrectly.–
John: 87 XJ6 84k
Indiana, USA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from Neatherd sent Sun 13 Jul 2008:
I have triple checked.they are not missing any bushings.unless they
are the wrong size?I matched them up length wise with the originals
before and after installation.there is only one way they can go
correct?–
The original message included these comments:
Double and triple check that you installed the link bushings to the
sway bar correctly. I had the bottom bushings missing on one of
bushings fixed the issue. You may have installed the new ones
incorrectly.
In reply to a message from Neatherd sent Sun 13 Jul 2008:
I have triple checked.they are not missing any bushings.unless they
are the wrong size?I matched them up length wise with the originals
before and after installation.there is only one way they can go
correct?
One of the instructions is not to tighten the nuts fully until the weight if
the car is on the wheels.
The reason given is to avoid premature wear. Could there be other effects?
Gene McGough
XJ6C II 1976
XK-150 FHC S834515DN
:----- Original Message -----
From: “chris87” bonzolives@verizon.net
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 9:07 PM
I have triple checked.they are not missing any bushings.unless they
are the wrong size?I matched them up length wise with the originals
before and after installation.there is only one way they can go
correct?
The original message included these comments:
Double and triple check that you installed the link bushings to the
sway bar correctly. I had the bottom bushings missing on one of
bushings fixed the issue. You may have installed the new ones
incorrectly.
In reply to a message from A. Cannara sent Sun 13 Jul 2008:
Alex,
hi,it was your pics that I went with when deciding to replace the
sway bushings but yours seem to be quite a bit shorter in length
than the ones that came off my 87,do you know how long they are(the
bolts on mine were about 7 1/4 inches total length.this is why I
think mine are wrong!!in your pics the sleeve between bushings
looks like it’s only about 1 to 2 inches?mine is about 3.
thanks for helping–
The original message included these comments:
I have triple checked.they are not missing any bushings.unless they
are the wrong size?I matched them up length wise with the originals
before and after installation.there is only one way they can go
correct?
I am having a hard time imaging how the length of away bar end links could
cause a wandering problem while driving down a straight road.
I’d have the alignment rechecked with particular attention to caster.
Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJR
1990 T-Bird SCFrom: “chris87” bonzolives@verizon.net
hi,it was your pics that I went with when deciding to replace the
sway bushings but yours seem to be quite a bit shorter in length
than the ones that came off my 87,do you know how long they are(the
bolts on mine were about 7 1/4 inches total length.this is why I
think mine are wrong!!in your pics the sleeve between bushings
looks like it’s only about 1 to 2 inches?mine is about 3.
In reply to a message from Doug Dwyer sent Sun 13 Jul 2008:
according to the computer print out at the alignment shop the
caster is correct according to jaguar service manual,book ten,
series 3,(I have them all) at 2.1 positive left side and 2.5 pos.
right side.
the reasoning behind the sway bar end link length is that the car
did not have the problem before changing them out.
Chris–
The original message included these comments:
I am having a hard time imaging how the length of away bar end links could
cause a wandering problem while driving down a straight road.
I’d have the alignment rechecked with particular attention to caster.
In reply to a message from chris87 sent Sun 13 Jul 2008:
doug,you may be right,
upon further review,it appears from the printout that the specs
were taken correctly from 83 and on xj6,the printout actually
reads ‘‘all models from vin360146 (83 on)’’,but looking again at the
manual it lists first for all 6 cylinders the castor at 2 1/4 +or-
1/4 pos.,however it then lists 83 and on as having to be 3 1/2 +or-
1/4.
Could this be the problem indeed?
In reply to a message from A. Cannara sent Sun 13 Jul 2008:
Alex,
hi,it was your pics that I went with when deciding to replace the
sway bushings but yours seem to be quite a bit shorter in length
than the ones that came off my 87,do you know how long they are(the
bolts on mine were about 7 1/4 inches total length.this is why I
think mine are wrong!!in your pics the sleeve between bushings
looks like it’s only about 1 to 2 inches?mine is about 3.
As Doug says, Chris; this has nothing to do with the swaybar and its
bushings. It enters the picture only with assymetric loading on the
front wheels - either bumps or when leaning during cornering…
But the original toe-in, 2,67 mm mentioned in the original post was well
within the spec range of 1,6 - 3,2 mm for a SIII 6…??
With correct wheel alignment; on an even road with no road camber a car
will travel in a straight line, even with a some loosenes in the
suspension/steering. Veering due to road camber is perfectly normal -
expert alignment shops frequently bias suspension settings to counter
this tendency.
However, with too little toe-in the car will be more sensitive to any
steering input or other forces acting on the front wheels. Given the
‘normal’ behaviour before the allignment and that the only changes made
was to toe-in - which according to the manual’s spec was OK; go back to
the shop and ask where he got the alignment data…
A wrong toe-in fits your symptoms and require verification…
I don’t see caster making the kind of control issue you mentioned, Chris.–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.
chris87 wrote:
In reply to a message from chris87 sent Sun 13 Jul 2008:
doug,you may be right,
upon further review,it appears from the printout that the specs
were taken correctly from 83 and on xj6,the printout actually
reads ‘‘all models from vin360146 (83 on)’’,but looking again at the
manual it lists first for all 6 cylinders the castor at 2 1/4 +or-
1/4 pos.,however it then lists 83 and on as having to be 3 1/2 +or-
1/4.
Could this be the problem indeed?
Just disconnect the swaybar links and test drive.–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.
chris87 wrote:
In reply to a message from Doug Dwyer sent Sun 13 Jul 2008:
according to the computer print out at the alignment shop the
caster is correct according to jaguar service manual,book ten,
series 3,(I have them all) at 2.1 positive left side and 2.5 pos.
right side.
the reasoning behind the sway bar end link length is that the car
did not have the problem before changing them out.
Chris, just detach them and drive to check. Link length will only affect the
angular position of the swaybar at rest, within reason. Ours are actually a
bit longer the OE, so the bar ends are raised a little, at rest.–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.
chris87 wrote:
In reply to a message from chris87 sent Sun 13 Jul 2008:
correction,the spacing on mine are 2 5/8.they should be around 3
1/2 right?could this be the problem?
Chris, note my pic 1 says 3.5". As long as the flattened end of the bar is
roughly parallel to the mating loop on the lower arm you’re fine.–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.
chris87 wrote:
In reply to a message from A. Cannara sent Sun 13 Jul 2008:
Alex,
hi,it was your pics that I went with when deciding to replace the
sway bushings but yours seem to be quite a bit shorter in length
than the ones that came off my 87,do you know how long they are(the
bolts on mine were about 7 1/4 inches total length.this is why I
think mine are wrong!!in your pics the sleeve between bushings
looks like it’s only about 1 to 2 inches?mine is about 3.
In reply to a message from chris87 sent Sun 13 Jul 2008:
I would trust nothing in a Sear’s auto center’s alignment data base.
Take it to an alignment shop that specializes in ‘‘performance
sports cars’’. and carry the service manual with you (for
referencing proper specs).
FWIW regular tire shops don’t like moving the castor shims around
on our cars and charge a bit more to do so. (This is actually an
excellent indication that they have a clue about what they are
doing).
Have you checked the condition of those big roundish rubber bushies
that hold the front end in place? Sorry, too lazy to look up the
proper name. But they are in the area of the splash plate IIRC.–
The original message included these comments:
the alignment was done by computer at the local sears auto center
according to specs of jag xj6 79-87 which he got from database.I’m