[xj] steering rack?

I can’t imagine why, except perhaps the usual Jaguar-phobia. The caster
setting arrangement on these cars is brilliantly simple.

Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJR
1990 T-Bird SCFrom: “TMack” tmack409@aol.com

I would trust nothing in a Sear’s auto center’s alignment data base.
Take it to an alignment shop that specializes in ‘‘performance
sports cars’’. and carry the service manual with you (for
referencing proper specs).

FWIW regular tire shops don’t like moving the castor shims around
on our cars and charge a bit more to do so. (This is actually an
excellent indication that they have a clue about what they are
doing).

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chris87 wrote:

In reply to a message from chris87 sent Sun 13 Jul 2008:

doug,you may be right,
upon further review,it appears from the printout that the specs
were taken correctly from 83 and on xj6,the printout actually
reads ‘‘all models from vin360146 (83 on)’’,but looking again at the
manual it lists first for all 6 cylinders the castor at 2 1/4 +or-
1/4 pos.,however it then lists 83 and on as having to be 3 1/2 +or-
1/4.
Could this be the problem indeed?

As I said, Chris - revisit those specs…

The V12 set-up uses less (neutral) toe-in while increasing the castor
angle (3,5 deg +/-) to compensate. The heavier front load may be a
reason, but there is no mention in the workshop manual that the
alignment was changed in 83 for either engine type.

Toe-in and castor work in combination, so it’s unlikely that less toe-in
without a simultaneous increase in castor will be satisfactory, causing
directional undifference. The V12 toe and castor set-up will likely work
fairly well for the 6 as well, but it has to be consistent
Experimenting with the front end alignment for specific purposes is not
unusual - but the specs given are likely based on some pretty extensive
testing…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)===================================================
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In reply to a message from chris87 sent Sun 13 Jul 2008:

Thanks everyone for your wisdom and time.I will bring manual with
me when I return(for the third time) to the alignment shop and have
set to specs in book. It has to be this because all was well prior
to replacing tie rod ends(and end links,although I realize now they
shoud not be a major factor here),so I’ll reset to specs and update
you all .
I may have to penalize myself for over analizing.

chris–
The original message included these comments:

I’ve just finished installing new outer tie rod ends as well as
anti sway bar bushings (red poly) and end links(2 and 5/8,is this
right,camber and castor were within acceptable range.the total
front toe was brought to 0.10 from 2.67…After doing this the
steering became very erratic,especially at higher speeds,seems to


chris87
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Jaguar published the change in a tech bulletin which emphasized that earlier
cars should not be set to the later specs. I often wondered what suspension
change…I can’t think of any…would preclude the earlier cars.

Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJR
1990 T-Bird SCFrom: “Frank Andersen” franksue@xtra.co.nz

The heavier front load may be a reason, but there is no mention in the
workshop manual that the alignment was changed in 83 for either engine
type.

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In reply to a message from Doug Dwyer sent Sun 13 Jul 2008:

Doug the top wishbone pick up points were moved slightly from
sometime during S-2 production so as to allow more caster. In my
experience the cars steer and handle best with caster set to
maximum (about 3 degrees), Camber set 1/2 to 1 degree negative, and
toe in the 2 - 3 mm range. Getting it right, and with good bushes
et al. transforms the way they drive.–
The original message included these comments:

Jaguar published the change in a tech bulletin which emphasized that earlier
cars should not be set to the later specs. I often wondered what suspension
change…I can’t think of any…would preclude the earlier cars.


Neville S1 XJ12
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Doug the top wishbone pick up points were moved slightly from
sometime during S-2 production so as to allow more caster.

Ahhhh…that 'splains it ! I looked un the parts manual and, sure
enough…

In my
experience the cars steer and handle best with caster set to
maximum (about 3 degrees), Camber set 1/2 to 1 degree negative, and
toe in the 2 - 3 mm range. Getting it right, and with good bushes
et al. transforms the way they drive.

I always ask for max allowable positive caster and negative camber.
Interestingly, on both my Ser III and XJS the negative camber was plainly
visible yet I never had a tire wear problem

Cheers
Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJR
1990 T-Bird SCFrom: “Nev.W” sales@leonardjones.co.nz

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In reply to a message from Doug Dwyer sent Mon 14 Jul 2008:

I’m glad my post was able to stir up some good conversation and
perhaps help others learn something new.I know I certanly have.I
guess I should just have them adjust the castor at 3 degrees
positive,camber at 1/2 to 1 negative,and toe in to 2-3 mm and all
should be well.
Here’s another:I’ve read conflicting theories from both the list as
well as books and manuals as to the steering rack gaiters
containing fluid,some saying this is a warning of a needed rack
rebuild.Apparantly production starting after V.I.N 426768 the
greased racks were now filled with lubricating oil so a small
amount should be in the gaiters and should be replaced equally to
that which may leak out during inspection.Such was the case when I
opened mine up for inspection,rebuild rack?Or not?–
The original message included these comments:

Doug the top wishbone pick up points were moved slightly from
sometime during S-2 production so as to allow more caster.
experience the cars steer and handle best with caster set to
maximum (about 3 degrees), Camber set 1/2 to 1 degree negative, and
toe in the 2 - 3 mm range. Getting it right, and with good bushes


chris87
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The higher caster of the SIII may explain why the 225/70 15s on our SII rub
more on our SIII’s footwells.–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.

Doug Dwyer wrote:

Jaguar published the change in a tech bulletin which emphasized that
earlier cars should not be set to the later specs. I often wondered what
suspension change…I can’t think of any…would preclude the earlier
cars.

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Yes, if it’s 0 or negative, it’ll steer any way the road turns the wheels –
just like a normal setting when going in reverse.

I assumed he had some positve caster, for self centering. The shims on the
top ball joint should go forward to increase + caster.–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.

Doug Dwyer wrote:

If the caster is too negative the car can take on a wandering
characteristic. I thought that was the issue, no? I’ll go back and
re-read.

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Just checking a reference, to be sure…

“Caster is the angle to which the steering pivot axis is tilted forward or
rearward from vertical, as viewed from the side. If the pivot axis is tilted
backward (that is, the top pivot is positioned farther rearward than the
bottom pivot), then the caster is positive; if it’s tilted forward, then the
caster is negative. Positive caster tends to straighten the wheel when the
vehicle is traveling forward, and thus is used to enhance straight-line
stability.”

http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html

Negative is a no no on normal cars.–
A. Cannara wrote:

Yes, if it’s 0 or negative, it’ll steer any way the road turns the
wheels – just like a normal setting when going in reverse.

I assumed he had some positve caster, for self centering. The shims on
the top ball joint should go forward to increase + caster.

Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.

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In reply to a message from A. Cannara sent Mon 14 Jul 2008:

just to be sure,are the specs given(2-3 mm toe
in ,camber ,castor,etc)for total toe,meaning divide by two for each
side or are they for each side? anybody?

Chris87–
The original message included these comments:

Yes, if it’s 0 or negative, it’ll steer any way the road turns the
wheels – just like a normal setting when going in reverse.
I assumed he had some positve caster, for self centering. The shims on


chris87
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Toe in is usually something like 1/8" - 1/4" total difference between front &
rear distances between wheel edges, because it’s not as accurate or easy to do
sides individually without special equipment. A long stick does the trick!–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.

chris87 wrote:

In reply to a message from A. Cannara sent Mon 14 Jul 2008:

just to be sure,are the specs given(2-3 mm toe
in ,camber ,castor,etc)for total toe,meaning divide by two for each
side or are they for each side? anybody?

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In reply to a message from A. Cannara sent Mon 14 Jul 2008:

well,had re-alignment started today but the shop did not have
correct shims so I need to get some caster shims,any ideas?
things are much better already just getting toe and camber right.
had a hard time trying to figure out how to convert 3 mm to degrees
since all the alignment computers go by degrees now,does anybody
know what 3mm translates to in degrees??–
The original message included these comments:

Toe in is usually something like 1/8’’ - 1/4’’ total difference between front &
rear distances between wheel edges, because it’s not as accurate or easy to do
Alex


chris87
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Depends on te radius from axis to measurement point, Chris! You can be quite
accurate by using the shortcut that the radius divided by the movement being
measured is the angle (in Radians)…

R x sin (angle A) = R x A for small angles. Same for tangent of A. A radian
is 57.3 degrees, 'cause there are 2Pi radians in a circle (360 degrees).

So if you want 2 degrees, then 2/57.3 x R = your measured displacement (toe).
You just need to measure R from the axis (wheel center) to the point where
you make the mm measurement.

How many shims do you have on the car?–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.

chris87 wrote:

In reply to a message from A. Cannara sent Mon 14 Jul 2008:

well,had re-alignment started today but the shop did not have
correct shims so I need to get some caster shims,any ideas?
things are much better already just getting toe and camber right.
had a hard time trying to figure out how to convert 3 mm to degrees
since all the alignment computers go by degrees now,does anybody
know what 3mm translates to in degrees??

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I reckon any of the usual suppliers can get some shims for you, or one of
the used parts guys who frequent the list.

As I recall you should have six caster shims for each upper ball joint.The
adjustment is made by relocating shims to one side or the other of the b/j,
but always keeping a total of six.

That’s what I’ve always understood, at least.

Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJR
1990 T-Bird SCFrom: “chris87” bonzolives@verizon.net

well,had re-alignment started today but the shop did not have
correct shims so I need to get some caster shims,any ideas?

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Oops…

…the radius divided into the movement being measured is the angle…–
A. Cannara wrote:

Depends on te radius from axis to measurement point, Chris! You can be
quite accurate by using the shortcut that the radius divided by the
movement being measured is the angle (in Radians)…

R x sin (angle A) = R x A for small angles. Same for tangent of A. A
radian is 57.3 degrees, 'cause there are 2Pi radians in a circle (360
degrees).

So if you want 2 degrees, then 2/57.3 x R = your measured displacement
(toe). You just need to measure R from the axis (wheel center) to the
point where you make the mm measurement.

How many shims do you have on the car?

Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.

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Our XJs only have 4 per side!–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.

Doug Dwyer wrote:

I reckon any of the usual suppliers can get some shims for you, or one
of the used parts guys who frequent the list.

As I recall you should have six caster shims for each upper ball
joint.The adjustment is made by relocating shims to one side or the
other of the b/j, but always keeping a total of six.

That’s what I’ve always understood, at least.

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In reply to a message from A. Cannara sent Tue 15 Jul 2008:

I tried doing the calculation of tire diameter multiplied by 25.4 =
rim diameter in mm.(381)
multiplied by pi(3.14) to get circumfrence in mm…(1196.34)
divided by 360 to get mm per degree.(3.3231)
then divide toe mm (3)by the mm/degree result(3.3231) to get toe in
decimal degrees(1.107).
I think it’s right if I did the math right.
I will have to check number of shims in the A.M.
So if you just relocate shims to adjust caster,correct me if I’m
wrong here but,there should be no need for more shims unless a PO
removed some ignorantly right?–
The original message included these comments:

Oops…
…the radius divided into the movement being measured is the angle…

Depends on te radius from axis to measurement point, Chris! You can be
quite accurate by using the shortcut that the radius divided by the


chris87
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Roger that, except your toe calc just needs the diameter, if you’re using the
outer rim of the tread – no pi needed.

You can also tell roughly how much caster you have from steering effort.–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.

chris87 wrote:

In reply to a message from A. Cannara sent Tue 15 Jul 2008:

I tried doing the calculation of tire diameter multiplied by 25.4 =
rim diameter in mm.(381)
multiplied by pi(3.14) to get circumfrence in mm…(1196.34)
divided by 360 to get mm per degree.(3.3231)
then divide toe mm (3)by the mm/degree result(3.3231) to get toe in
decimal degrees(1.107).
I think it’s right if I did the math right.
I will have to check number of shims in the A.M.
So if you just relocate shims to adjust caster,correct me if I’m
wrong here but,there should be no need for more shims unless a PO
removed some ignorantly right?

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In reply to a message from A. Cannara sent Tue 15 Jul 2008:

Any thoughts on whether fluid in the steering rack bellows is a
sure sign of rack rebuild time?–
The original message included these comments:

Roger that, except your toe calc just needs the diameter, if you’re using the
outer rim of the tread – no pi needed.
You can also tell roughly how much caster you have from steering effort.
Alex


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