[xj] Transmission fluid

Is there a problem mixing automatic transmission fluid types? I
want to pump out what I can and replace it (maybe a time or two),
but the last change was before I had the car: an 86 XJ6 with a BW66
transmission. Type FA was recommended to me, but I don’t know if
that’s what’s in there now. Would there be a problem if it happens
to be Dexron?

Many thanks for help or opinions!

Bob–
BobP
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In reply to a message from BobP sent Tue 1 Mar 2005:

I, like you, have had my 87 s3 a while but the PO is the
last to change the fluid. I have been told that you MUST use
the right kind. If you really hate your transmission (an I
don’t blame you, the bw66 sucks) pour anything you want in
there. Cheese dip makes for a good time (NOT REALLY, JUST
KIDDING). I would play it safe and stick to FA.–
dim flicker off
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In reply to a message from Chris Diamond sent Tue 1 Mar 2005:

Thanks, Chris. I’m thinking that I will go with FA, but I’m still
not sure whether it’s OK to mix it with fluid of another type
(checking the old invoice carefully, it did say 4 qts Dexron II, so
that’s ptretty specific and probably what they poured in there).
Of course, there’s nothing to say that I don’t already have a
mixture! My guess is that nothing would go terribly wrong with a
mixture, but Im hoping to confirm that.

Bob–
BobP
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In reply to a message from BobP sent Tue 1 Mar 2005:

Bob,

The type of fluid to use should carry the specification M2C33F (the
original ‘type F’ fluid) or the later M2C33G. These were both Ford
specifications. Today you are more likely to find the latter on
store shelves.
Dexron fluid specifications are different, and in theory
incompatible, though there is some debate over how much it matters
in practice.
Since the correct fluid is obtainable, there seems little cause to
use to try to use the wrong type.

If you simply drain the gearbox you will only get about half the
oil out since some 3 to 4 litres are trapped inside the torque
convertor. This means that it would be a good idea to repeat the
operation a few times to cut the proportion of old oil.
Might be an opportunity to clean or renew the strainer too, and
wipe any metal particles off the magnet.

The alternative is to flush the box with a running engine and a
supply of fresh fluid to run in, while draining at the cooler
outlet.

Just supposing your gearbox has been filled with Dexron in the
past, I doubt if mixing the fluid types a little will do any harm.

Regards,

Andy–
The original message included these comments:

Is there a problem mixing automatic transmission fluid types? I
want to pump out what I can and replace it (maybe a time or two),
but the last change was before I had the car: an 86 XJ6 with a BW66
transmission. Type FA was recommended to me, but I don’t know if
that’s what’s in there now. Would there be a problem if it happens
to be Dexron?


Andy Blakey 1983 XJ6 III 4.2 Auto (UK) '‘Jane Seymour’
London, United Kingdom
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The fluids will mix, as they are both ATF’s, but have different
properties. The Dexron has friction modifiers in it, so it is
“slipprier” than the type F, and that will cause slurring of the shifts
and much more wear on your clutches and bands, as they are slipping much
more during the shifts. The type F will give you crisper shifts and
longer transmission life.

Considering that these transmissions are pretty much streched to their
capacity in these cars, I’d take it a shop that does a complete flush
and put in the proper fluid.

Craig
92 VDP

BobP wrote:>Is there a problem mixing automatic transmission fluid types? I

want to pump out what I can and replace it (maybe a time or two),
but the last change was before I had the car: an 86 XJ6 with a BW66
transmission. Type FA was recommended to me, but I don’t know if
that’s what’s in there now. Would there be a problem if it happens
to be Dexron?

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In reply to a message from AndyBlakey sent Tue 1 Mar 2005:

Many thanks, Andy. I’ll go with multiple swaps with Type FA and
hope things smooth out a bit.

BTW, the magnet had hopped off the pan up onto the transmission,
where it was clinging to a couple of pipes and was surrounded by
some incredible goop. Just as well to get that sorted!

Bob–
The original message included these comments:

The type of fluid to use should carry the specification M2C33F (the
original ‘type F’ fluid) or the later M2C33G. These were both Ford
specifications. Today you are more likely to find the latter on
store shelves.
If you simply drain the gearbox you will only get about half the
oil out since some 3 to 4 litres are trapped inside the torque
operation a few times to cut the proportion of old oil.
Just supposing your gearbox has been filled with Dexron in the
past, I doubt if mixing the fluid types a little will do any harm.


BobP
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In reply to a message from Craig Talbot sent Tue 1 Mar 2005:

I just had mine rebuilt and they filled it with Dexron
III/Mercon spec fluid. The shifts don’t feel slurred at
all. This is a shop that works on a lot of classic Jags
(though they do farm out the actual rebuilding of the trans)
so I assume they know what they’re doing. Even if they
don’t know what they’re doing, would it make a difference
that the wear parts are all brand new manufacture, and the
trans will have only ever had Dexron III/Mercon in it?–
The original message included these comments:

The fluids will mix, as they are both ATF’s, but have different
properties. The Dexron has friction modifiers in it, so it is
‘‘slipprier’’ than the type F, and that will cause slurring of the shifts
and much more wear on your clutches and bands, as they are slipping much
more during the shifts. The type F will give you crisper shifts and
longer transmission life.


Duncan Brown 1985 SIII XJ6
Grayslake, IL, United States
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There should be a difference is the shift speed, and ultimate life on
the wear parts, at least from what I gathered for a presentation I went
to at an SAE talk by a Ford engineer when I was in university.
Will there be a difference in practice to shift quality and life? I have
no idea, but since Dexron was available when the transmission was
designed I’m presuming there was a reason Borg Warner didn’t specify it
over Type F.

Craig
92 VDP

frobozz wrote:>Even if they

don’t know what they’re doing, would it make a difference
that the wear parts are all brand new manufacture, and the
trans will have only ever had Dexron III/Mercon in it?

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Dexron has a different formulation now; it is called Dexron III and is a
near-universal fluid. When our cars were built (even as late as the last
Series III V12 cars), the fluid was Dexron II. In theory, a crisp, hard
shift will result in less wear on soft bits (but then, the hard shift
might mean more wear on other parts?); in practice, for normal use, the
difference in longevity is probably very slight.
Gregory-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf
Of Craig Talbot
Sent: March 1, 2005 4:01 PM
To: frobozz
Cc: xj@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xj] Transmission fluid

There should be a difference is the shift speed, and ultimate life on
the wear parts, at least from what I gathered for a presentation I went
to at an SAE talk by a Ford engineer when I was in university.
Will there be a difference in practice to shift quality and life? I have

no idea, but since Dexron was available when the transmission was
designed I’m presuming there was a reason Borg Warner didn’t specify it
over Type F.

Craig
92 VDP

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Without knowing what was put in, Bob, nor what was in before that fat
chance of being sure…:slight_smile:

The fluid is some sort of black magic; it has to lubricate and at the
same time ensure that the clutches and bands do not slip. And as the
fluid is designed for specific types of box, and the various additives
or whatever in different specifications is unlikely to curdle the mix;
you cannot go much wrong by using any fluid specified by the
manufacturer for the box?

Reminds me of an experiment in my youth, though; I loved milk, and I
loved beer, so I thought mixing the two should make a divine brew. It
didn’t…:slight_smile:

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)

BobP wrote:>In reply to a message from Chris Diamond sent Tue 1 Mar 2005:

Thanks, Chris. I’m thinking that I will go with FA, but I’m still
not sure whether it’s OK to mix it with fluid of another type
(checking the old invoice carefully, it did say 4 qts Dexron II, so
that’s ptretty specific and probably what they poured in there).
Of course, there’s nothing to say that I don’t already have a
mixture! My guess is that nothing would go terribly wrong with a
mixture, but Im hoping to confirm that.

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I know the book recommends Duckams Q-matic fluid for the Tranny and
power steering fluid in my 86 xj-6, but what would be an
alternative to this?–
86 jag
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In reply to a message from 86 jag sent Sat 1 Oct 2005:

Duckhams Q-matic was simply an automatic transmission fluid that
met M2C-33F or M2C-33G ATF specifications. Other manufacturers
produce ATF to the same spec. and any of their products will do.
Read the label on the packs.

Incidentally, we tend to register under our real names on this
forum.

Regards,

Andy–
The original message included these comments:

I know the book recommends Duckams Q-matic fluid for the Tranny and
power steering fluid in my 86 xj-6, but what would be an
alternative to this?


Andy Blakey 1983 XJ6 III 4.2 Auto (UK) '‘Jane Seymour’
London, United Kingdom
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Use Type “F” or “FA” and you’ll be fine.

Doug Dwyer
Longview, Washington USA
1987 Ser III XJ6
1988 XJS V12From: “86 jag” seatrain1@aol.com

I know the book recommends Duckams Q-matic fluid for the Tranny and
power steering fluid in my 86 xj-6, but what would be an
alternative to this?

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86 Jag:
Please give us your real name. Nothing to fear on this list, and we all
know each other by name.
The current fluid to use in your xj6 transmission and power steering is
Type F. But you may also use Dexron III for both purposes.

Gregory-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf
Of 86 jag
Sent: October 1, 2005 6:15 AM
To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [xj] Transmission fluid

I know the book recommends Duckams Q-matic fluid for the Tranny and
power steering fluid in my 86 xj-6, but what would be an
alternative to this?

86 jag

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In reply to a message from Dr. Gregory Andrachuk sent Sat 1 Oct 2005:

Just curious, I heard that dexron III might be bad for the
borg-warner…have I been misinformed!(gasp)–
82 Series III XJ6 140k+
Berkeley, United States
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Dexron III is not “bad” for the Borg Warner; it is what many
professional transmission shops use in it (Dexron III is a sort of
“universal” fluid). It will give a slightly softer shift than the Type
F. I ran a 1982 xj6 for many years using Dexron III with no problems
whatever.
Gregory-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf
Of Ryan A.
Sent: October 2, 2005 11:56 AM
To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [xj] Transmission fluid

In reply to a message from Dr. Gregory Andrachuk sent Sat 1 Oct 2005:

Just curious, I heard that dexron III might be bad for the
borg-warner…have I been misinformed!(gasp)

82 Series III XJ6 140k+

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Ryan A wrote:
Just curious, I heard that dexron III might be bad for the
borg-warner…have I been misinformed!(gasp)

Now I’m curious, Ryan. Who told you this? Understandable if it was your
next-door neighbor’s aged mother-in-law, inexcusable if it was a supposedly
well-informed mechanic.

Regardless, it’s certainly not true.

Doug Ingram
Victoria BC Canada
1987 Jaguar Series III XJ6 VdP
2002 Jaguar X-Type 3.0===================================================
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This probably stems from the fact that Dexron is “more slippery” than Type F
or FA, allowing more slippage between the clutches. Perhaps a consideration
if the trans is on its last legs but otherwise a non-issue for all intents
and purposes.

Doug Dwyer
Longview, Washington USA
1987 Ser III XJ6
1988 XJS V12

Now I’m curious, Ryan. Who told you this? Understandable if it was your
next-door neighbor’s aged mother-in-law, inexcusable if it was a
supposedlyFrom: “Doug Ingram” dougi@shaw.ca
well-informed mechanic.

Regardless, it’s certainly not true.

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In reply to a message from Doug Dwyer sent Mon 3 Oct 2005:

I use Dexron II and all is fine.–
1975 XJ6C - LHD
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I need some help. I have ask some dealers and parts stores
and I get different answers on what is recommended for a
1985 XJ6. I have bought two types that were recommended but
now that I am going to change the filter I am worried that I
may have the wrong type.

The types I have are Valvoline Dextron-VI and Chevron Dexron
III Type H.

Which is better? I plan on changing the fluids tomorrow morning.

Any help will be appreciated.–
Jeff Sherouse
Tok, Alaska, United States
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