[xj] Wire Wheels

We had a discussion on the xj-s list a while back involving the
relative merits of the Dayton 70-spoke wire wheels vs. the older 60-
spoke wheels. Supposedly the 70-spoke wheels were much better.

I was looking at an XJ6 with wire wheels yesterday, and decided to
count spokes. There were 50 spokes in each wheel. It had at least
two different kinds of caps on the centers, and three said nothing
readable, but the fourth said “TrueSpoke”.

Anybody know anything about TrueSpoke?

– Kirbert | Palm’s Postulate:
| If anything is to be accomplished,
| some rules must be broken.
| – Kirby Palm, 1979

Listers. Need your help on making a decision. Just bought a 1986 VDP
(35,000 miles) to replace my existing 1986 VDP (83,000 miles). The existing
one is for sale if anyone is interested. Silver Sand exterior, doeskin (I
think) interior. It’s located in Portland, Oregon USA. Anyway, I think I
would like to put wire wheels on the new VDP. I have seen recent
discussions on 50, 60 and 70 spoke wheels. In all of your humble opinions
(some more so than others), where should I focus my attention on researching
this decision? Where should I get them and from whom? What are the
drawbacks, other than non-qualifying for competition?

P.S. To Mark Stephenson in Phoenix, AZ, Phil is driving the car up and is
currently between Los Angeles and Sacramento. He should be in Portland
Saturday night and I will be home from vacation on Sunday. I heard you rode
in it. What did you think?

Tom Harbolt

1986 VDP
1986 VDP (for sale)

Hi Tom-

On the subject of wire wheels - I have chrome wires on my 72 MGB (Stage 2
tune). They look great, cost a fortune (relative to the cost of the car
when I bought it) and are a real PITA to keep clean and rust-free. I’ve
never done it before and wouldn’t again - but on a dark blue MGB they sure
look great - as they would on a show Jaguar - but then you’d be penalized
for having them. You just can’t win, can you?

Cheers - and congratulations on the new Cat,
Loudon->Listers. Need your help on making a decision. Just bought a 1986 VDP

(35,000 miles) to replace my existing 1986 VDP (83,000 miles). The existing
one is for sale if anyone is interested.

Listers. Need your help on making a decision. Just bought a 1986 VDP
(35,000 miles) to replace my existing 1986 VDP (83,000 miles). The
existing
one is for sale if anyone is interested. Silver Sand exterior, doeskin
(I
think) interior. It’s located in Portland, Oregon USA. Anyway, I think
I
would like to put wire wheels on the new VDP. I have seen recent
discussions on 50, 60 and 70 spoke wheels. In all of your humble
opinions
(some more so than others), where should I focus my attention on
researching
this decision? Where should I get them and from whom? What are the
drawbacks, other than non-qualifying for competition?Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:06:14 -0700
From: “Tom Harbolt” Tom@PacificLG.com

Tom-

Besides the expense and upkeep of wires the ‘official’ Jaguar comment
was that wire wheels could not be recommended due to the weight of the
xj models. The factory went to some serious lengths to minimize the
unsprung weight at each corner. The alloy wheels complete the package so
to speak. Check the archives as this has been discussed a number of
times. Having said the above there is a silver blue '86 ~ '87 XJ6 that
has recently appeared in town. It is a very nice cat with wires that
look very sharp.

Paul Spitzer

Tom: The relationship between Jaguar and its dealers is much like that
between parent and child: you simply cannot control everything the child
does, and often he will do something you don’t approve of; in any case, you
share in the blame attached to his actions, or you shoulder the entire
blame. Dealers sell wire wheels for use on xj saloons; the wheels cannot
handle the load. Jaguar gets blamed for poor engineering. Or, the owner has
his car lubricated at a quick lube place where the “technician” finds 6 of
the 16 grease points. Two years down the road major parts of the rear
suspension fail. Jaguar gets blamed for poor engineering and quality.
Chromed Kent wheels? Never offered by Jaguar. Offered by a dealer? I doubt
it, but who knows? I think it was a previous owner’s solution to damaged
clearcoat and the ensuing corrosion. The speaker: if the rear speaker on the
same side does not exhibit the same symptoms, then the problem may be as
simple as a loose or corroded connection on the speaker itself. You must
remove the inner door panel for access (Sovereign and VDP: remove the
plastic lens for the puddle lights, remove exposed screws. Slide top
portion of armrest BACK (this may take some effort if the panel has not been
removed before) to reveal screws. After gently releasing the plastic clips
around the side, lift UP to release the clips at the top). When you do, be
careful of the connectors for the mirrors. They are attached together by
plastic ties to prevent the loss of the wire in the bowels of the door. Cut
these, but reattach using new plastic ties. They are essential, not
optional.
Gregory----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Harbolt Tom@PacificLG.com
To: Dr. Gregory Andrachuk <@Gregory_Andrachuk>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 5:09 PM
Subject: RE: [xj] Wire Wheels

Argh. They look exactly like my other S3 wheels except everything that
isn’t black is chrome. There are cat hubcaps on each. Another person on
the list said I may have Kent chrome wheels and that dealers sold them as
an
option. Do you agree? I do have a technical question for you. The right
front speaker cuts in and out. Where should I look first to eliminate
this
problem? Should I pull the speaker?

-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. Gregory Andrachuk [mailto:@Gregory_Andrachuk]
Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 4:15 PM
To: Tom Harbolt
Subject: Re: [xj] Wire Wheels

Tom: more bad news. Chrome wheels were NOT an option on the S3 car,
ever.

The only wheels offered on the S3 were plain steel, covered with a
hubcap

(in North America only in 79 and 80), the painted Kent alloy, and the
painted “pepperpot” alloy. Some people have stripped the paint from
these

wheels and just polished the alloy. This was the configuartion of the
Kent

wheel on the S2 XJ12 and on the early XJS. But chrome? never.
What wheel is
it? (I do not dispute that it looks great. No doubt it does. It just
isn’t

original, and that may not be of any importance to you at all.)
Gregory
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Harbolt Tom@PacificLG.com
To: Dr. Gregory Andrachuk <@Gregory_Andrachuk>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 11:39 AM
Subject: RE: [xj] Wire Wheels

I appreciate the advice. I have not heard from one person who
recommends
going the wire wheel route. I was pleasantly surprised when my new
car

arrived that it has chrome alloy wheels as opposed to just alloy
wheels,

which I have on my first XJ6. I didn’t even know chrome alloy was an
option. Did you? Because I like the chrome, and more
importantly because
it sounds like the wire wheels are trouble, I have decided against
the

wire

wheels. Do you know of a dealer for car covers, the thicker the
better?

-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. Gregory Andrachuk [mailto:@Gregory_Andrachuk]
Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 11:30 AM
To: Tom Harbolt
Subject: Re: [xj] Wire Wheels

Tom: you are aware that Jaguar specifically recommends
AGAINST mounting

wires on the S3 saloon? They look great, I agree, but the people
I have know
who have had them, all removed them after a while: difficulty
in keeping

them balanced, broken spokes, and leaking air. The car is too
heavy for any
serious driving with them. But, again, they DO look great.
Gregory
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Harbolt Tom@PacificLG.com
To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 3:06 PM
Subject: [xj] Wire Wheels

Listers. Need your help on making a decision. Just bought
a 1986 VDP

(35,000 miles) to replace my existing 1986 VDP (83,000 miles).
The

existing

one is for sale if anyone is interested. Silver Sand exterior,
doeskin (I
think) interior. It’s located in Portland, Oregon USA.
Anyway, I think I
would like to put wire wheels on the new VDP. I have seen recent
discussions on 50, 60 and 70 spoke wheels. In all of your
humble opinions
(some more so than others), where should I focus my attention on
researching
this decision? Where should I get them and from whom? What are
the

drawbacks, other than non-qualifying for competition?

P.S. To Mark Stephenson in Phoenix, AZ, Phil is driving the
car up and is
currently between Los Angeles and Sacramento. He should be in
Portland

Saturday night and I will be home from vacation on Sunday. I
heard

you

rode

in it. What did you think?

Tom Harbolt

1986 VDP
1986 VDP (for sale)

Tom: I use, and have for 25 years, pure carnauba wax WITHOUT ANY ABRASIVES.
In other words, not Mother’s Carnauba Cleaner wax. I have used several
different brands, all with the same success: Mother’s, Classic, and
currently Eagle; It is the carnauba that is the secret: highly reflective,
UV resistant, water repellant. I use it on the paint, the chrome, the
rubber, the wood, hell, I even use it on the dining room table for exactly
the same reasons. It is wonderful for highly polished wood and it prevents
water spotting. I suspect that it inhibits the degradation of the
plasticizers in the finish, but I cannot swear to this. I can just tell you
that my dashboards have no cracks in the finish. You can put on as many
coats of this as you want; in fact, the more the better since it smooths out
the finish by filling in minuscule scratches. I even use it on the windows,
including the windscreen for shine and water repellancy. At speed there is
no need for wipers. The rain just flows right off. ZYMOL is a wonderful
carnauba-based liquid, but it costs considerably more than any of the
carnauba paste waxes. I would use it if someone made a gift of it to me. But
the paste carnauba has done outstanding service. Leather: I use Lexol
because of its ease of use and its effectiveness. If your problem is that
the colour coating on the leather is worn through, then I recommend getting
a product like SURFLEX (Leatherique makes a similar coating). This is
matched exactly to the colout of your leather by means of an analysed sample
you provide (raid the bottom of the rear seat). This product is simplicity
itself and makes the leather literally as new without hiding the wonderful
patina of use: those creases and crinkles that separate leather from vinyl.

for SURFLEX: 717 686 3158. I have recoloured the seats in my Sovereign

(doeskin). Absolutely no one could tell that this is not the original
Connolly finish. Including me!
Gregory----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Harbolt Tom@PacificLG.com
To: Dr. Gregory Andrachuk <@Gregory_Andrachuk>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 5:24 PM
Subject: RE: [xj] Wire Wheels

I just read on the Digest that you use the same wax on your wood as your
paint. What do you use? Also, on both my cars, the leather seems to wear
on the driver’s seat on the left side right about where my kidney is.
Have
you had this problem and if so what do you do about it? In other words,
how
do you keep your leather nice? Thanks for the help.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. Gregory Andrachuk [mailto:@Gregory_Andrachuk]
Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 4:15 PM
To: Tom Harbolt
Subject: Re: [xj] Wire Wheels

Tom: more bad news. Chrome wheels were NOT an option on the S3 car,
ever.

The only wheels offered on the S3 were plain steel, covered with a
hubcap

(in North America only in 79 and 80), the painted Kent alloy, and the
painted “pepperpot” alloy. Some people have stripped the paint from
these

wheels and just polished the alloy. This was the configuartion of the
Kent

wheel on the S2 XJ12 and on the early XJS. But chrome? never.
What wheel is
it? (I do not dispute that it looks great. No doubt it does. It just
isn’t

original, and that may not be of any importance to you at all.)
Gregory
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Harbolt Tom@PacificLG.com
To: Dr. Gregory Andrachuk <@Gregory_Andrachuk>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 11:39 AM
Subject: RE: [xj] Wire Wheels

I appreciate the advice. I have not heard from one person who
recommends
going the wire wheel route. I was pleasantly surprised when my new
car

arrived that it has chrome alloy wheels as opposed to just alloy
wheels,

which I have on my first XJ6. I didn’t even know chrome alloy was an
option. Did you? Because I like the chrome, and more
importantly because
it sounds like the wire wheels are trouble, I have decided against
the

wire

wheels. Do you know of a dealer for car covers, the thicker the
better?

-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. Gregory Andrachuk [mailto:@Gregory_Andrachuk]
Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 11:30 AM
To: Tom Harbolt
Subject: Re: [xj] Wire Wheels

Tom: you are aware that Jaguar specifically recommends
AGAINST mounting

wires on the S3 saloon? They look great, I agree, but the people
I have know
who have had them, all removed them after a while: difficulty
in keeping

them balanced, broken spokes, and leaking air. The car is too
heavy for any
serious driving with them. But, again, they DO look great.
Gregory
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Harbolt Tom@PacificLG.com
To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 3:06 PM
Subject: [xj] Wire Wheels

Listers. Need your help on making a decision. Just bought
a 1986 VDP

(35,000 miles) to replace my existing 1986 VDP (83,000 miles).
The

existing

one is for sale if anyone is interested. Silver Sand exterior,
doeskin (I
think) interior. It’s located in Portland, Oregon USA.
Anyway, I think I
would like to put wire wheels on the new VDP. I have seen recent
discussions on 50, 60 and 70 spoke wheels. In all of your
humble opinions
(some more so than others), where should I focus my attention on
researching
this decision? Where should I get them and from whom? What are
the

drawbacks, other than non-qualifying for competition?

P.S. To Mark Stephenson in Phoenix, AZ, Phil is driving the
car up and is
currently between Los Angeles and Sacramento. He should be in
Portland

Saturday night and I will be home from vacation on Sunday. I
heard

you

rode

in it. What did you think?

Tom Harbolt

1986 VDP
1986 VDP (for sale)

Can anyone suggest where I might advertise 5 good chrome wire wheels that I
took off an 86 xj6 that I picked up two months ago. They are in excellent
condition, were made by Dayton and are 60 spoke. Being a purist I put alloy
wheels on the vehicle even though everyone said the wires looked better. The
tires (Goodyear Eagle II ) are also available.I’m located in Naples,Fl.
Regards, Dick Weise.

“J&L Autoworks” <@J_L_Autoworks>

Hello list,
There has been some discussion about wire wheels. IMHO there is
NO repair work that can be done by the amateur, myself included. These
wheels must be tuned and that doesn’t mean to make a ringing sound, but to
establish the right balance of tightness and in such a manner as to make
sure that the runout is correct. There are very few places that can do this
properly and it is rapidly becoming a dying art. If you get the spokes too
tight, they will snap, too loose and the wheel will flex. The rim must be
soft so that spoke breakage is minimal from shock stress and over time the
wheels get loose and the rim has a tendency to get out of round. All this
must be taken into account to tune the wheels. THAT’s why I hate the daggone
things…but they do look good!
Cheers,
Jeb

J&L Autoworks
1335 Lutztown Road
Mechanicsburg,PA 17055
717-258-5524
@J_L_Autoworks===================================================
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Cannara <@Cannara>

Ditto Jeb. And, they do look good.

Alex
79xj6L SII (wires, with original turbos in reserve)
Menlo Park, Calif.

J&L Autoworks wrote:>

“J&L Autoworks” j_lautoworks@pa.net

Hello list,
There has been some discussion about wire wheels. IMHO there is
NO repair work that can be done by the amateur, myself included. These
wheels must be tuned and that doesn’t mean to make a ringing sound, but to
establish the right balance of tightness and in such a manner as to make
sure that the runout is correct. There are very few places that can do this
properly and it is rapidly becoming a dying art. If you get the spokes too
tight, they will snap, too loose and the wheel will flex. The rim must be
soft so that spoke breakage is minimal from shock stress and over time the
wheels get loose and the rim has a tendency to get out of round. All this
must be taken into account to tune the wheels. THAT’s why I hate the daggone
things…but they do look good!
Cheers,
Jeb

J&L Autoworks
1335 Lutztown Road
Mechanicsburg,PA 17055
717-258-5524
j_lautoworks@pa.net

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@JS4453

In a message dated 06/05/2000 1:49:11 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
owner-xj-digest@jag-lovers.org writes:

I must agree with you Jeb but I sometimes wonder how many people know that
they do need to be tuned? I wonder if they are tuned in the key of E or G?

John
Waiting for the 84 engine replacment for my 85===================================================
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“Charles Nowlin” <@Charles_Nowlin>

Tune them to anything except “B-flat” …

Charlie---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: JS4453@aol.com
Reply-To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 16:09:15 EDT

JS4453@aol.com

In a message dated 06/05/2000 1:49:11 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
owner-xj-digest@jag-lovers.org writes:

I must agree with you Jeb but I sometimes wonder how many people know that
they do need to be tuned? I wonder if they are tuned in the key of E or G?

John
Waiting for the 84 engine replacment for my 85

===================================================
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Cannara <@Cannara>

Oooooh, Charlie. Tomorrow bright and early I’m heading over to a
knowledgeable wheel guy to get the two wires with the square P5s on them
looked at more closely than Costco seems able to do. I’ll ask him what the
note is (I think it’ll be more like a bank note). I put the original P5
fronts (on wires too) back on today and things were nice and smooth, so the
ones I want up front need attention.

Alex
79xj6L SII (9 wheels, 10 tires – gotta be a good combo in here somewhere)
Menlo Park, California

Charles Nowlin wrote:>

“Charles Nowlin” chache@thethinker.com

Tune them to anything except “B-flat” …

Charlie

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: JS4453@aol.com
Reply-To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 16:09:15 EDT

JS4453@aol.com

In a message dated 06/05/2000 1:49:11 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
owner-xj-digest@jag-lovers.org writes:

I must agree with you Jeb but I sometimes wonder how many people know that
they do need to be tuned? I wonder if they are tuned in the key of E or G?

John
Waiting for the 84 engine replacment for my 85

===================================================
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“Charlie” <@Charles_Nowlin>

Hey, Alex,
I’m an old musician… it was funny to me…!8^)
But maybe not to everyone 8-(

Yep you are probably right about the note…
So, you’re the guy that’s hoarding all the wires huh???

Any way, hope it doesn’t cost you more than a tank of gas…
Oh! What am I saying!!!

         Charlie
         Lumps Admin.
         Matawan, New Jersey,   USA
         83 XJ6 350 Vette eng TH700R4*************************

----- Original Message -----
From: “Cannara” cannara@attglobal.net
To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [xj] Wire Wheels

Cannara cannara@attglobal.net

Oooooh, Charlie. Tomorrow bright and early I’m heading over to a
knowledgeable wheel guy to get the two wires with the square P5s on them
looked at more closely than Costco seems able to do. I’ll ask him what the
note is (I think it’ll be more like a bank note). I put the original P5
fronts (on wires too) back on today and things were nice and smooth, so the
ones I want up front need attention.

Alex
79xj6L SII (9 wheels, 10 tires – gotta be a good combo in here somewhere)
Menlo Park, California

Charles Nowlin wrote:

“Charles Nowlin” <@Charles_Nowlin>

Tune them to anything except “B-flat” …

Charlie

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: JS4453@aol.com
Reply-To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 16:09:15 EDT

JS4453@aol.com

In a message dated 06/05/2000 1:49:11 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
owner-xj-digest@jag-lovers.org writes:

I must agree with you Jeb but I sometimes wonder how many people know that
they do need to be tuned? I wonder if they are tuned in the key of E or G?

John
Waiting for the 84 engine replacment for my 85

===================================================
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http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo

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Arthur Blackwell <@Arthur_Blackwell>

Yeah, the notes will have pictures of Franklins or Grants on them…8-)…
Cannara wrote:

Cannara cannara@attglobal.net


Art Blackwell
Denver, CO

" Even in the future nothing works " Dark Helmet " Spaceballs "

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Cannara <@Cannara>

Charlie,

Turns out we’d have to ask Dayton for the exact note. As long as we aren’t
looking for the lost chord we should be ok. {:o]

Well, now that I’m $30 lighter and a good wheel place has done their thing,
the old P5/wire combination is very smooth. It’s especially interesting to
see how many and where the previous Costco weights were on the rims. It pays
as well to have the wheels “finish balanced” on the car – something I’ve been
adverse to for a long time. This place uses a Hoffmann Finish Balancer to
drive each wheel by the sidewall corner to pretty high speeds, while it
monitors the tire relative to a reflective strip glued to the sidewall. Just
have to remember each wheel’s orientation now when removing.

Alex
79xj6L SII
Menlo Park, Calif.

Charlie wrote:>

“Charlie” chache@thethinker.com

Hey, Alex,
I’m an old musician… it was funny to me…!8^)
But maybe not to everyone 8-(

Yep you are probably right about the note…
So, you’re the guy that’s hoarding all the wires huh???

Any way, hope it doesn’t cost you more than a tank of gas…
Oh! What am I saying!!!

         Charlie
         Lumps Admin.
         Matawan, New Jersey,   USA
         83 XJ6 350 Vette eng TH700R4
         *************************

----- Original Message -----
From: “Cannara” <@Cannara>
To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [xj] Wire Wheels

Cannara <@Cannara>

Oooooh, Charlie. Tomorrow bright and early I’m heading over to a
knowledgeable wheel guy to get the two wires with the square P5s on them
looked at more closely than Costco seems able to do. I’ll ask him what the
note is (I think it’ll be more like a bank note). I put the original P5
fronts (on wires too) back on today and things were nice and smooth, so the
ones I want up front need attention.

Alex
79xj6L SII (9 wheels, 10 tires – gotta be a good combo in here somewhere)
Menlo Park, California

Charles Nowlin wrote:

“Charles Nowlin” chache@thethinker.com

Tune them to anything except “B-flat” …

Charlie

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: JS4453@aol.com
Reply-To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 16:09:15 EDT

JS4453@aol.com

In a message dated 06/05/2000 1:49:11 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
owner-xj-digest@jag-lovers.org writes:

I must agree with you Jeb but I sometimes wonder how many people know that
they do need to be tuned? I wonder if they are tuned in the key of E or G?

John

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“Tony Williams” <@Tony_Williams>

wire wheels on your Sovereign are not correct,
and will be troublesome.

in another post Gregory says

Jaguar specifically stated that wire wheels are NOT to be
fitted to the xj saloons; weight, cornering forces, difficulty
in trueing and balancing, all of these things.
There is a new generation of wire wheels, but yours are
unlikely to be adequate for anything other than Sunday
afternoon motoring.

I am having a problem with these two statements of yours
Gregory. If wire wheels are as dangerous as you are
suggesting here, surely then manufacturers would not
make or sell them for fear of litigation ? like wise, why do
XJ sedans with wire wheels still pass yearly registrations
if they are so dangerous. Sure, Jaguar did not recommend
wire wheels, but is the reason for that something to do with
the fact that Jaguar do not/ did not manufacture wire wheels,
or had exclusive deals with other wheel manufacturers at the
time of the XJ’s release ?
You mention weight as an issue, the 420 and the S-type
came with wire wheels and they weighed in at 1,678 kilos.
The XJ sedan came out at 1,691 kilos hardly a staggering
weight difference.
I drove my XJC with wire wheels every day for 18 months,
was I pulling out my few strands of hair after this - no
did spokes break - no the ride and handling was no
different. Okay I do drive more like Kate Moss than Stirling
Moss, but honestly I had no problems.
I do admit there are a few considerations when putting on
wires ie: you cannot have the car reverse towed - ask Kerry
Packer what happened to his e-type !
Thousands of Jaguar owners drive on wires with hardly
any problems other than keeping the bloody things clean !
I think the main problem is the fact that cheaply made wire
wheels have caused this urban belief that wire wheels are
a no-no. In my humble opinion they are yes-yes 8>)

Kind Regards

Tony Williams 1985 XJ6
Sydney NSW Australia
http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=954416104----- Original Message -----
From: “Dr Gregory Andrachuk” mgb@UVVM.UVIC.CA

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@Peddlarbob

Hi Gregory. I am not the sort to disregard free advise and your comments
have given me reason to doubt my decision to install these wire wheels on a
car that has just under gone a costly restoration. However I did contact
Dayton Wheels in Ohio to find out more about these wheels that I have. They
told me this particular series of rims where produced specifically for use on
Jaguars and are suitable and safe to install them on my XJ series Jaguar.
The type that I have are simulated knock on’s with a simulated knock on nut
(cap). They actually bolt directly to the hub. A phone call too Jaguar’s
Coventry headquarters’ got the answer to this same question “We do not
recommend any rim to be installed on our cars other than what we manufacture
for safety reasons”. Gregory, do you have any personal knowledge or know any
one that has used these rims and experienced problems. I thought the
questions in my mind about what to do with the engine was going to be the
hard one this has turned out to be twice as hard. If I decide not to use
these rims do I just eat the cost or do I sell them and pass the problem on
to someone else, tough decision. Regards Bob.===================================================
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@Peddlarbob

Gregory. Just an after thought, perhaps I should get my P4000’s mounted on
these rims and try them on my VDP first. What do you think?
P.s. Your comments are really appreciated but please stick to simple English
because I hate having to look things up in the dictionary. Regards Bob.===================================================
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MillTech MillTech@Pacbell.net

Peddlarbob@aol.com wrote:

Peddlarbob@aol.com

Hi Gregory. I am not the sort to disregard free advise and your comments
have given me reason to doubt my decision to install these wire wheels on a
car that has just under gone a costly restoration. However I did contact
Dayton Wheels in Ohio to find out more about these wheels that I have. They
told me this particular series of rims where produced specifically for use on
Jaguars and are suitable and safe to install them on my XJ series Jaguar.
The type that I have are simulated knock on’s with a simulated knock on nut
(cap). They actually bolt directly to the hub. A phone call too Jaguar’s
Coventry headquarters’ got the answer to this same question “We do not
recommend any rim to be installed on our cars other than what we manufacture
for safety reasons”. Gregory, do you have any personal knowledge or know any
one that has used these rims and experienced problems. I thought the
questions in my mind about what to do with the engine was going to be the
hard one this has turned out to be twice as hard. If I decide not to use
these rims do I just eat the cost or do I sell them and pass the problem on
to someone else, tough decision. Regards Bob.

===================================================
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Bob,

Keep the wheels. Use them. Enjoy them. I have had a set of Daytons on
the SIII for 5 years. It came with them. I drive the car very hard. I
use Eagle One cleaner. Works great. The safety issue with these wheels
is in my opinion mostly bafflegab. Dayton did upgrade the number of
spokes to 70 for the heavier cars. There is no way, in our current
litigious times, that Dayton would continue making them if they were
dangerous.

Regarding phone calls to Jaguar, remember a) the people that you talk to
are employed to sell Jaguars and Jaguar parts only, and they, more than
likely, have never even seen a set of Dayton wires up close.

Secondly, Gregory, I think you need to ease up on chastising newbies
regarding ‘purity’ of the car and it’s fittings. As I recall when you
get a car, you change the purity of the trunk by installing an extra
light. You prefer the 7 inch headlights to the smaller ones. It appears
that a double standard exists. These are changes you make that you feel
are acceptable. Other purists may feel that they destroy the car. I
know a few ‘concours’ types here in San Diego (from other marques) and
they would be horrified at the idea of screwing a light fixture from an
xjs into something like the v12 you just bought.

Jim Downes===================================================
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John Tompane <@John_Tompane>

Bob,

Often the views regarding wire wheels are based on apocryphal information
:slight_smile:

It is similar to the widely held view that Jaguars are unreliable or
electrical nightmares. In some cases, in some years, this was true; however,
the entire marquee gets a bad rap because of it. The same is true with wire
wheels. First, there are few different manufacturers of wire wheels and many
are not adequate for a 4000 lb car which is driven with spirit (aka hard).
Second, prior to 1989 Dayton made a wire wheel which was often a dealer
installed option, this wheel is usually referred to as the 60 spoke wheel.
This version did have problems. Problems serious enough for Dayton to have
an unofficial recall program which allowed owners of 60 spoke wheels to
upgrade to the new version circa 1989-on – referred to as the 70 spoke
wheel. Also some of the wire wheel horror stories I’ve heard where often
related to wheels from 50’s and 60’s era sports cars, and truing and
balancing these is really quite an art form.

I have had three different sets of Dayton wire wheels on three different
Jaguars (S3 xj6, xj-s & x300), and had zero problems of any kind. I also
know a couple of owners of Series IIIs with the 60 spokes who had no
problems, but my jag shop had several 60 spoke wheels which would not stay
true and couple of actual breakage incidents. When I purchased the xj-s it
already had the Dayton wires installed and I was going to swap them out for
Jaguar alloys, but the shop owner talked me out of it (even though I was
going to buy the wheels from him). He has many customer’s cars who got the
70 spoke as dealer options, he’s installed some per customer’s request, has
them on his wife’s Series III, and in his experience the incidence of
trouble was consistent with Jag alloys. One of the downsides to the 70 spoke
steel wire wheel is that it weighs more than the alloy wheel, but Dayton now
has new wheel called the LW. This excellent wheel has an aluminum rim, is
stronger than the steel version, but weighs the same as the factory alloys.
They developed this because there were problems with the 70 spoke wheels at
17" diameters with low profile tires when installed on the XK8. I put 16"
LWs on the x300.

All that said, from your description of the wheels I suspect you might have
60 spoke wheels. You should check yours. If you have 60 spoke wheels and
want to continue using spokes call Dayton and demand their upgrade program.
You might also use it as an opportunity to go to 16" so you have more tire
options as 15" selection is dwindling. Also if you are going to compete in
concours you should use one of the correct Jaguar alloys, else suffer the
deduction. I also wouldn’t seriously take up autocross on wire wheels, but
then I wouldn’t autocross on 15" tires either. I love the wire wheels and
over the years now look at every Jag thinking how much better it would look
with spokes. However, that is my completely subjective option, just as you
should base your decision on only your own personal desires for your Jaguar.
I hope you find this helpful.

Cheers,

JT===================================================
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