[xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on my XJ40?

Hi all
Here us an interesting quote from the vehicle Inspectors bulletin for
Australia
See
http://www.ipe.nt.gov.au/whatwedo/mvr/vehiclestandards/pdf/vib03-2003-02.pdf

It mentions there that the vehicle that is being inspected must be wearing
tyres that have ratings that are equal or better than those specified by the
manufacturer.

Mmmmm

According to the XJ40 3.6 owners handook in front of me the type/size is
220/65 VR 390

I understand that the USA did not have the metric rims but what about any
Australian owners ?
What is written in your owners handbook ?
I wonder how many other countries have similar legislation ??

Phil

Find us at
http://www.xjjaguar.co.uk/
Call (+44) 01323 740471 ( 0900-1800 GMT ONLY)

From: dboarder@sympatico.ca
To: Norman Watkins norman@norman-watkins.fsnet.co.uk,
xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on my
XJ40?
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:17:17 -0500

Limited by what? The CPU or the Ocean?
Does that mean all your cars that can do more than 100MPH must have V-rated
tires?

From: Norman Watkins norman@norman-watkins.fsnet.co.uk
Date: 2006/01/11 Wed AM 11:57:10 EST
To: xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on my
XJ40?

Dave

Cars here that are limiteed are limiteed to 155 mph!

NW

Dave wrote:

Most of the cars in North America are running on less than V-rated
tires. Most of those cars are likely capable of speeds above 100MPH
(many modern cars are CPU speed limited for liability reasons).

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services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On
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Hi

Further to my earlier post I quote from the Pirelli.co.uk website:

<<Technical Information
Speed rating of replacement car tyres
In addition to ensuring that the load index is equal to or greater than that
of the original tyres, Pirelli strongly recommends that replacement tyres
should be of at least the same speed rating as those fitted when the vehicle
was manufactured (see footnotes). The main reasons for this recommendation
are- The original equipment tyre specification was selected to cater for the
car’s overall performance, not only in terms of its maximum speed but also,
for example, its acceleration and handling. Furthermore, they form an
integral part of the design of its suspension, braking and steering systems.
Vehicle handling, safety and refinement may be adversely affected if
unsuitable tyres are fitted. Tyres of an appropriate speed rating are
essential if the car is driven to its full potential and, even for everyday
UK motoring, they maintain the car’s design characteristics in terms of
safety and performance. In some countries it is illegal to drive on tyres
which are of a lower speed rating than the maximum speed capability of the
vehicle. The most common tyre speed ratings, referring to the maximum speed
capability of the vehicle, are: Pirelli urges motorists to place safety
above all else when choosing replacement tyres>>

In the UK it is not illegal but recommended that the minimum manufacturers
rating is at least matched
However:
<>

Other than Australia, which countries are they ??
Perhaps , in the case of the USA it may be what States ??

Food for thought I think

Phil

Find us at
http://www.xjjaguar.co.uk/
Call (+44) 01323 740471 ( 0900-1800 GMT ONLY)

From: dboarder@sympatico.ca
To: “wcmaness” wes@maness.cc, xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on my
XJ40?
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:51:42 -0500

Thats true although its not likely that you can get a “cheap” V-rated
tire as it has to be designed to not come apart at 130MPH. Certainly that
means it has to seriously reduce sidewall flex and thus heat generated. It
also has to be well balanced etc. That implies certain level of quality
control

I certainly think its possible to buy a perforance non V-rated tire
which will provide compariable handling to a low end V-rated tire(assuming
you keep to the speed rating). Of course the price might not be that much
different either.

From: “wcmaness” wes@maness.cc
Date: 2006/01/11 Wed PM 12:57:45 EST
To: xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on my
XJ40?

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting
services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On
Line Books and more !

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Here is an interesting site which I found covers the different ratings quite well.

http://www.autotirecarcare.com/guide/speed.html

From: “Phil Parrington” pp221158@hotmail.com
Date: 2006/01/11 Wed PM 03:27:58 EST
To: xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on my XJ40?

Hi

Further to my earlier post I quote from the Pirelli.co.uk website:

<<Technical Information
Speed rating of replacement car tyres
In addition to ensuring that the load index is equal to or greater than that
of the original tyres, Pirelli strongly recommends that replacement tyres
should be of at least the same speed rating as those fitted when the vehicle
was manufactured (see footnotes). The main reasons for this recommendation
are- The original equipment tyre specification was selected to cater for the
car’s overall performance, not only in terms of its maximum speed but also,
for example, its acceleration and handling. Furthermore, they form an
integral part of the design of its suspension, braking and steering systems.
Vehicle handling, safety and refinement may be adversely affected if
unsuitable tyres are fitted. Tyres of an appropriate speed rating are
essential if the car is driven to its full potential and, even for everyday
UK motoring, they maintain the car’s design characteristics in terms of
safety and performance. In some countries it is illegal to drive on tyres
which are of a lower speed rating than the maximum speed capability of the
vehicle. The most common tyre speed ratings, referring to the maximum speed
capability of the vehicle, are: Pirelli urges motorists to place safety
above all else when choosing replacement tyres>>

In the UK it is not illegal but recommended that the minimum manufacturers
rating is at least matched
However:
<>

Other than Australia, which countries are they ??
Perhaps , in the case of the USA it may be what States ??

Food for thought I think

Phil

Find us at
http://www.xjjaguar.co.uk/
Call (+44) 01323 740471 ( 0900-1800 GMT ONLY)

From: <@David_Boarder>
To: “wcmaness” wes@maness.cc, xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on my
XJ40?
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:51:42 -0500

Thats true although its not likely that you can get a “cheap” V-rated
tire as it has to be designed to not come apart at 130MPH. Certainly that
means it has to seriously reduce sidewall flex and thus heat generated. It
also has to be well balanced etc. That implies certain level of quality
control

I certainly think its possible to buy a perforance non V-rated tire
which will provide compariable handling to a low end V-rated tire(assuming
you keep to the speed rating). Of course the price might not be that much
different either.

From: “wcmaness” wes@maness.cc
Date: 2006/01/11 Wed PM 12:57:45 EST
To: xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on my
XJ40?

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting
services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On
Line Books and more !

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Very true, however
The two sites I refer to are a little different do you not think ?
One is a Government site referrring to national Law of a particular country
The other is a statement direct from one of the biggest worldwide tyre
manufacturers…
yours is from a relatively small ( in comparison to Pirelli) independant
tyre chain.

In the Uk we have KwikFit, ATS etc, they employ ‘no brain’ lowest common
denominator staff and I am afraid I have no doubt that the technical
knowledge is not much higher.
If the legal stipulation is that any tyre will do ( and it would appear to
be the case in the UK) then they will say whatever in order to sell tyres.

To be honest I am surprised that the UK law regarding tyre speed is not the
same as it appears to be in Austrailia, in general our tyre lwas are quite
strict.

Phil

Find us at
http://www.xjjaguar.co.uk/
Call (+44) 01323 740471 ( 0900-1800 GMT ONLY)

From: dboarder@sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on my
XJ40?
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:41:05 -0500

Here is an interesting site which I found covers the different ratings
quite well.

http://www.autotirecarcare.com/guide/speed.html

From: “Phil Parrington” <@Phil-P>
Date: 2006/01/11 Wed PM 03:27:58 EST
To: xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on
my XJ40?

Hi

Further to my earlier post I quote from the Pirelli.co.uk website:

<<Technical Information
Speed rating of replacement car tyres
In addition to ensuring that the load index is equal to or greater than
that
of the original tyres, Pirelli strongly recommends that replacement
tyres
should be of at least the same speed rating as those fitted when the
vehicle
was manufactured (see footnotes). The main reasons for this
recommendation
are- The original equipment tyre specification was selected to cater for
the
car’s overall performance, not only in terms of its maximum speed but
also,
for example, its acceleration and handling. Furthermore, they form an
integral part of the design of its suspension, braking and steering
systems.
Vehicle handling, safety and refinement may be adversely affected if
unsuitable tyres are fitted. Tyres of an appropriate speed rating are
essential if the car is driven to its full potential and, even for
everyday
UK motoring, they maintain the car’s design characteristics in terms of
safety and performance. In some countries it is illegal to drive on
tyres
which are of a lower speed rating than the maximum speed capability of
the
vehicle. The most common tyre speed ratings, referring to the maximum
speed
capability of the vehicle, are: Pirelli urges motorists to place safety
above all else when choosing replacement tyres>>

In the UK it is not illegal but recommended that the minimum
manufacturers
rating is at least matched
However:
<>

Other than Australia, which countries are they ??
Perhaps , in the case of the USA it may be what States ??

Food for thought I think

Phil

Find us at
http://www.xjjaguar.co.uk/
Call (+44) 01323 740471 ( 0900-1800 GMT ONLY)

From: dboarder@sympatico.ca
To: “wcmaness” wes@maness.cc, xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress
on my
XJ40?
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:51:42 -0500

Thats true although its not likely that you can get a “cheap”
V-rated
tire as it has to be designed to not come apart at 130MPH. Certainly
that
means it has to seriously reduce sidewall flex and thus heat generated.
It
also has to be well balanced etc. That implies certain level of quality
control

I certainly think its possible to buy a perforance non V-rated tire
which will provide compariable handling to a low end V-rated
tire(assuming
you keep to the speed rating). Of course the price might not be that
much
different either.

From: “wcmaness” wes@maness.cc
Date: 2006/01/11 Wed PM 12:57:45 EST
To: xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on
my
XJ40?

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting
services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar,
On
Line Books and more !

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting
services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On
Line Books and more !

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting
services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On
Line Books and more !

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !>To: “Phil Parrington” <@Phil-P>, xj40@jag-lovers.org

I look at this way.

  • it quite self serving that Pirelli suggests that a consumer buy the most
    expensive tire for their car. Certainly the safest recommendation from their
    point of view.

  • The tire chain simply explains what each spec means (and doesn’t mean)
    with cautions and lets the customer make the decsion. Its from an American
    point of view taking in consideration of North American driving conditions.

  • if a particular country has a law reguarding equipment that is specific to
    that country and does not necessarily mean its a good or bad idea. Certainly
    if you reside in that country is prudent to follow that law. Laws often
    correctly reflect conditions in that country or sometimes its just politics.

    Most of the comments reguarding running lower speed rated tires come from
    the North American side where speeds limits are less than 50% a V tires
    rating.----- Original Message -----
    From: “Phil Parrington” pp221158@hotmail.com
    To: <@David_Boarder>; xj40@jag-lovers.org
    Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 7:02 PM
    Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on my
    XJ40?

Very true, however
The two sites I refer to are a little different do you not think ?
One is a Government site referrring to national Law of a particular
country
The other is a statement direct from one of the biggest worldwide tyre
manufacturers…
yours is from a relatively small ( in comparison to Pirelli) independant
tyre chain.

In the Uk we have KwikFit, ATS etc, they employ ‘no brain’ lowest common
denominator staff and I am afraid I have no doubt that the technical
knowledge is not much higher.
If the legal stipulation is that any tyre will do ( and it would appear to
be the case in the UK) then they will say whatever in order to sell tyres.

To be honest I am surprised that the UK law regarding tyre speed is not
the same as it appears to be in Austrailia, in general our tyre lwas are
quite strict.

Phil

Find us at
http://www.xjjaguar.co.uk/
Call (+44) 01323 740471 ( 0900-1800 GMT ONLY)

From: <@David_Boarder>
To: “Phil Parrington” pp221158@hotmail.com, xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on
my XJ40?
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:41:05 -0500

Here is an interesting site which I found covers the different ratings
quite well.

http://www.autotirecarcare.com/guide/speed.html

From: “Phil Parrington” pp221158@hotmail.com
Date: 2006/01/11 Wed PM 03:27:58 EST
To: xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress
on
my XJ40?

Hi

Further to my earlier post I quote from the Pirelli.co.uk website:

<<Technical Information
Speed rating of replacement car tyres
In addition to ensuring that the load index is equal to or greater than
that
of the original tyres, Pirelli strongly recommends that replacement
tyres
should be of at least the same speed rating as those fitted when the
vehicle
was manufactured (see footnotes). The main reasons for this
recommendation
are- The original equipment tyre specification was selected to cater
for
the
car’s overall performance, not only in terms of its maximum speed but
also,
for example, its acceleration and handling. Furthermore, they form an
integral part of the design of its suspension, braking and steering
systems.
Vehicle handling, safety and refinement may be adversely affected if
unsuitable tyres are fitted. Tyres of an appropriate speed rating are
essential if the car is driven to its full potential and, even for
everyday
UK motoring, they maintain the car’s design characteristics in terms of
safety and performance. In some countries it is illegal to drive on
tyres
which are of a lower speed rating than the maximum speed capability of
the
vehicle. The most common tyre speed ratings, referring to the maximum
speed
capability of the vehicle, are: Pirelli urges motorists to place safety
above all else when choosing replacement tyres>>

In the UK it is not illegal but recommended that the minimum
manufacturers
rating is at least matched
However:
<>

Other than Australia, which countries are they ??
Perhaps , in the case of the USA it may be what States ??

Food for thought I think

Phil

Find us at
http://www.xjjaguar.co.uk/
Call (+44) 01323 740471 ( 0900-1800 GMT ONLY)

From: <@David_Boarder>
To: “wcmaness” wes@maness.cc, xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress
on my
XJ40?
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:51:42 -0500

Thats true although its not likely that you can get a “cheap”
V-rated
tire as it has to be designed to not come apart at 130MPH. Certainly
that
means it has to seriously reduce sidewall flex and thus heat
generated.
It
also has to be well balanced etc. That implies certain level of
quality
control

I certainly think its possible to buy a perforance non V-rated tire
which will provide compariable handling to a low end V-rated
tire(assuming
you keep to the speed rating). Of course the price might not be that
much
different either.

From: “wcmaness” wes@maness.cc
Date: 2006/01/11 Wed PM 12:57:45 EST
To: xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress
on
my
XJ40?

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for
exciting
services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar,
On
Line Books and more !

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting
services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On
Line Books and more !

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting
services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On
Line Books and more !

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The reason for the speed rating is mainly for the ability of the tire to
withstand heat and or operate with reduce heat due to its design.
Heat is the enemy of tires. There is heat from the belts flexing and
the just plain friction of the rubber molecules. Better rubber and belt
design reduces the heat allowing the tire to be driven at a higher rate
of speed continuously.

Regardless of how fast you drive, if you drive your Jaguar like the
typical Jaguar driver you will not be happy with the ride and handling
of an H rated tire. If you are and can’t tell the difference from the
proper V rated tire your suspension probably needs work besides new
tires unless you are so insensitive as to not be able to tell the
difference and there are people like that.

The Jaguar suspension was designed to use the specified tire. It will
handle and ride best with that tire providing your suspension is in good
shape.

I found it false economy as well as unsafe to drive H rated tires on my
Series III XJ6. Back then I was getting ripped off for $260 a tire for
the Pirelli P5 tires so I went down to an H or S rated Firestone the
tire shop told me would be ok as long as I didn’t drive 120 mph all
day. Wrong. I quickly found myself with out of balance tires. I’d
bring them in and rebalanced and a few weeks later be back. Couldn’t
keep them in balance. Now I was not driving 120 mph continuously or
even occasionally but I was hitting 75-90 mph on a 15 mile trip into the
city for short periods of time. The rest was city streets. The result
was noticed eventually. Heat build up was breaking the belts left and
right. When the guy got tired of replacing the tires because the belts
broke, he gave me my money back and suggested I use the tires rated for
the car.

The H tire is not rated for the side wall thrust nor the heat generated
by the suspension of the Jaguar at more or less normal driving 75 mph on
the freeway.
Forget the “speed rating” all that means is the tire wont build up
enough deadly heat to cause it to fail if driven that way on the
highway, but its not a rating fro straight-line driving either.
Cornering from freeway exits at any more than 25 mph is going to wear
that H tire out pretty fast. A lot of heat is generated in corners and
when the suspension is designed for a V rated tire, that means the
suspension is going to put V rated forces on that tire be it an H, S. V
or W rating.

I also found the H tire rode harsh and did not handle well. BTW if I
were an insurance adjuster and their was an accident and I found the XJ6
had H rated tires the first thing I would do is check the tires for
unusual wear, broken belts or bulges in the sidewalls as well as
carefully examining the skid marks for irregularity.

One other thing the H rated tire is not like to have is a soft enough
durometer rubber as a Pirelli P5 [the P5’s were like erasers they were
so soft]. If you look up tires specifications you fill find that there
is a rating for softness of the rubber [rated in durometer readings].
The Jaguar suspension and stopping distance is calculated on using tires
of about the same softness and tread design. Using a H rated tire with
a hard rubber will cause you Jaguar not to stop in the rated distance
would be my guess as well as providing less traction on wet roads.

But hey, do what you want its your money, hide and car. I just can’t
see where saving $20 a tire is worth the aggravation and risk of using
an H rated tire. If $80 is a breaker, you really out not to buy a
Jaguar, Even old ones cost as much as new ones to fix and any part on a
Jag cost twice as much as the same part on any other car. Tires are the
least expensive part of any Jaguar I can have Pirelli P4000 Super
Touring W rated tires put on my car for $105 balanced and including
disposal charge of the old tire. I don’t think I can save very much
using an H rated tire on the XJ40 and I know it was false economy on the
Series III.

Jay 90 VDP Majestic

wcmaness wrote:

In reply to a message from Phil Parrington sent Wed 11 Jan 2006:

Utilization of H rated, instead of Z rated tires would not be a
valid legal reason to deny an insurance claim. The ratings are
based on optimal performance at the maximum end - not normal safety
operation levels. Such safety issues fall under an entirely
different set of federal regulations for motor vehicle safety
requirements. Otherwise - all cars would be required to have Z
rated tires - because it’s safer in case you decide to speed -
right?

WCManess - 1991 XJ40/6 - Black/Grey - 4.0 liter
Arlington/Texas, United States
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In reply to a message from wcmaness sent Tue 10 Jan 2006:

Oddly enuf, same store, different location that put me through
heck with my tires. They insisted on a V-rated tire only … And
proceeded to tell me that Pirelli was phasing out its private
passenger car tire line in the U.S., hence why they had no V-rated
Pirellis available … They then told me about the Mickey Vs, but
supposedly they were located in their warehouse in Houston, at the
closest … and I would have to pay shipping to have them shipped
up here … I fell for that once, but refused to go along with the
program a second time … and promptly had a friend drive Layla
over to a less-known local tire shop, where the Paki tires were put
on … !–
The original message included these comments:

I replaced mine at Discount Tire. They don’t even carry a V-rated
tire in this size in regular stock. It’s a special order only.
BUT, they have in stock and as a standard replacement, H-rated
tires. No questions or concerns at all in putting on H-rated tires
for my car. I asked about V-rated, and the tire guy told me not to


&:-)) Paul '88 XJ6 VDP 130k & '88 XJ6 VDP 180k
Garland, Texas, United States
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In reply to a message from Phil Parrington sent Wed 11 Jan 2006:

I don’t know about the laws or ins. cos. in merry ole England, but
that would not make a difference here in the States. They have to
pay up no matter how (stupidly) the owner acts (even if the driver
had a snootful!). They, of course, have the right to not renew his
insurance policy when it comes due the next time, though. &;-))–
The original message included these comments:

You have an accident due to a blow out and your Ins Company refuse to pay
out as the tyres were incorrect for the vehicle.


&:-)) Paul '88 XJ6 VDP 130k & '88 XJ6 VDP 180k
Garland, Texas, United States
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Dave
My point is backed up by the Technical Dept of one of the worlds biggest
tyre manufactuers and the Transport dept of at least one national Goverment.
Both of whom I suspect have made that statement on the back of much research
and knowledge.
Your point is backed up by an Independemt tyre chain ( a chain of 3
worldwide).

Mmmmmm, which statement is likely to carry more weight ???
I know, I will ask my neighbour, afterall he used to work for the AA, he
must know :-))

We must all make a decision based on the facts put before us, I have read
nothing that changes my mind about the correct tyre range suitable for the
car I drive.
If, as it appears that here in the UK ( and apparently the USA) there is no
legal basis against fitting low spec tyres to the XJ6 then it is clearly
down to the owner to make his own choice.
If they opt for the lower spec tyre then that is fine, legally, it does not
however mean that for good , sound technical reasons it is the wrong
decision

Phil

Phil

Find us at
http://www.xjjaguar.co.uk/
Call (+44) 01323 740471 ( 0900-1800 GMT ONLY)

From: “Dave” dboarder@sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on my
XJ40?
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 19:33:30 -0500

I look at this way.

  • it quite self serving that Pirelli suggests that a consumer buy the most
    expensive tire for their car. Certainly the safest recommendation from
    their point of view.

  • The tire chain simply explains what each spec means (and doesn’t mean)
    with cautions and lets the customer make the decsion. Its from an American
    point of view taking in consideration of North American driving conditions.

  • if a particular country has a law reguarding equipment that is specific
    to that country and does not necessarily mean its a good or bad idea.
    Certainly if you reside in that country is prudent to follow that law. Laws
    often correctly reflect conditions in that country or sometimes its just
    politics.

Most of the comments reguarding running lower speed rated tires come from
the North American side where speeds limits are less than 50% a V tires
rating.

----- Original Message ----- From: “Phil Parrington” <@Phil-P>
To: dboarder@sympatico.ca; xj40@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on my
XJ40?

Very true, however
The two sites I refer to are a little different do you not think ?
One is a Government site referrring to national Law of a particular
country
The other is a statement direct from one of the biggest worldwide tyre
manufacturers…
yours is from a relatively small ( in comparison to Pirelli) independant
tyre chain.

In the Uk we have KwikFit, ATS etc, they employ ‘no brain’ lowest common
denominator staff and I am afraid I have no doubt that the technical
knowledge is not much higher.
If the legal stipulation is that any tyre will do ( and it would appear to
be the case in the UK) then they will say whatever in order to sell tyres.

To be honest I am surprised that the UK law regarding tyre speed is not
the same as it appears to be in Austrailia, in general our tyre lwas are
quite strict.

Phil

Find us at
http://www.xjjaguar.co.uk/
Call (+44) 01323 740471 ( 0900-1800 GMT ONLY)

From: dboarder@sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on
my XJ40?
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:41:05 -0500

Here is an interesting site which I found covers the different ratings
quite well.

http://www.autotirecarcare.com/guide/speed.html

From: “Phil Parrington” <@Phil-P>
Date: 2006/01/11 Wed PM 03:27:58 EST
To: xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress
on
my XJ40?

Hi

Further to my earlier post I quote from the Pirelli.co.uk website:

<<Technical Information
Speed rating of replacement car tyres
In addition to ensuring that the load index is equal to or greater
than
that
of the original tyres, Pirelli strongly recommends that replacement
tyres
should be of at least the same speed rating as those fitted when the
vehicle
was manufactured (see footnotes). The main reasons for this
recommendation
are- The original equipment tyre specification was selected to cater >
for
the
car’s overall performance, not only in terms of its maximum speed but
also,
for example, its acceleration and handling. Furthermore, they form an
integral part of the design of its suspension, braking and steering
systems.
Vehicle handling, safety and refinement may be adversely affected if
unsuitable tyres are fitted. Tyres of an appropriate speed rating are
essential if the car is driven to its full potential and, even for
everyday
UK motoring, they maintain the car’s design characteristics in terms
of
safety and performance. In some countries it is illegal to drive on
tyres
which are of a lower speed rating than the maximum speed capability of
the
vehicle. The most common tyre speed ratings, referring to the maximum
speed
capability of the vehicle, are: Pirelli urges motorists to place
safety
above all else when choosing replacement tyres>>

In the UK it is not illegal but recommended that the minimum
manufacturers
rating is at least matched
However:
<
lower
speed rating than the maximum speed capability of the vehicle>>

Other than Australia, which countries are they ??
Perhaps , in the case of the USA it may be what States ??

Food for thought I think

Phil

Find us at
http://www.xjjaguar.co.uk/
Call (+44) 01323 740471 ( 0900-1800 GMT ONLY)

From: dboarder@sympatico.ca
To: “wcmaness” wes@maness.cc, xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress
on my
XJ40?
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:51:42 -0500

Thats true although its not likely that you can get a “cheap”
V-rated
tire as it has to be designed to not come apart at 130MPH. Certainly
that
means it has to seriously reduce sidewall flex and thus heat >
generated.
It
also has to be well balanced etc. That implies certain level of >
quality
control

I certainly think its possible to buy a perforance non V-rated
tire
which will provide compariable handling to a low end V-rated
tire(assuming
you keep to the speed rating). Of course the price might not be that
much
different either.

From: “wcmaness” wes@maness.cc
Date: 2006/01/11 Wed PM 12:57:45 EST
To: xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress
on
my
XJ40?

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for >
exciting
services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary /
Calendar,
On
Line Books and more !

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for
exciting
services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On
Line Books and more !

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting
services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On
Line Books and more !

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !>To: “Phil Parrington” <@Phil-P>,xj40@jag-lovers.org

To: “Phil Parrington” <@Phil-P>, xj40@jag-lovers.org

In reply to a message from Phil Parrington sent Wed 11 Jan 2006:

well of course a TIRE MANUFACTURER is going to ‘‘recommend’’ this,
esp. the one that provides the original fitment tires < eyeroll >–
The original message included these comments:

Further to my earlier post I quote from the Pirelli.co.uk website:
<<Technical Information


&:-)) Paul '88 XJ6 VDP 130k & '88 XJ6 VDP 180k
Garland, Texas, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

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Paul
In the good old UK, Ins Companies will often look for a reason NOT to pay
out.
Bald tyres for example would suggest that the car was unsafe and should not
have been on the road in the first place.
If the tyres were found to be a contributary cause of an accident I doubt
very much that an Ins Co would pay out.
Perhaps others wilth realtime experience of such an occasion can give us an
input

Phil

Find us at
http://www.xjjaguar.co.uk/
Call (+44) 01323 740471 ( 0900-1800 GMT ONLY)

From: “AttyDallas” attydallas2@aol.com
To: xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on my
XJ40?
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 08:51:26 +0100

In reply to a message from Phil Parrington sent Wed 11 Jan 2006:

I don’t know about the laws or ins. cos. in merry ole England, but
that would not make a difference here in the States. They have to
pay up no matter how (stupidly) the owner acts (even if the driver
had a snootful!). They, of course, have the right to not renew his
insurance policy when it comes due the next time, though. &;-))

The original message included these comments:

You have an accident due to a blow out and your Ins Company refuse to
pay
out as the tyres were incorrect for the vehicle.


&:-)) Paul '88 XJ6 VDP 130k & '88 XJ6 VDP 180k
Garland, Texas, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting
services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On
Line Books and more !

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In reply to a message from dboarder@sympatico.ca sent Wed 11 Jan 2006:

Here! Here! Dave … (and note: this source is NOT a tire
manufacturer)–
The original message included these comments:

http://www.autotirecarcare.com/guide/speed.html


&:-)) Paul '88 XJ6 VDP 130k & '88 XJ6 VDP 180k
Garland, Texas, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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Paul,
You make a good point regarding injury to others, In the UK it is possible
however that it would become a civil case.
If your car is not road legal ( out of date annual test) then your Ins is
void, you have no Ins.
I can imagine an Ins co finding a car with faulty brakes, poor tyres etc
having the stand point of the car being not road legal.

Coming back to the tyre situation. Obviously the laws vary worldwide,
afterall It appears that there is no such legislation here in the UK.
The decision on what tyre to fit becomes a matter of choice.
To fit cheap under specced tyres may well comply with the law but is it
based purely on finance ?
If so, is that decision a wise one ?

Much the same as a cheap crash helmet for a motorcyclist may well be within
the law but will it save his life ??

Phil

Find us at
http://www.xjjaguar.co.uk/
Call (+44) 01323 740471 ( 0900-1800 GMT ONLY)

From: AttyDallas2@aol.com
To: @Phil-P
Subject: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on my
XJ40?
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 03:30:49 EST

In a message dated 1/12/06 2:07:07 A.M. Central Standard Time,
@Phil-P writes:

In the good old UK, Ins Companies will often look for a reason NOT to pay
out.

well, I guess the most extreme example in the States is the driver who is
driving drunk … one would think that if ever there was ever a
justification
for an ins. co. not to pay up for the damage caused by its insured, it
would
be due to that insured’s own willful violation of the law … but still,
they
do pay up and indeed it is their duty to do so … I have argued that if
the
law were changed in that regard (i.e. ins. co. does not have to cover any
damage or injuries caused by its insured driving under the influence) then
maybe
a loaded driver would think twice about driving … but this argument
falls
on deaf ears here, in that we are more concerned with the possible
innocent
victims of the carnage – it would not be fair to punish them by
depriving
them of compensation for their losses caused by the impaired driver … !

&:-))
Paul

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !

In reply to a message from Phil Parrington sent Thu 12 Jan 2006:

Phil,

I always fit the tyres specified by Jag to my car (peace of
mind, assumed better performance etc, etc - or because I’m
chicken / stupid, whatever!) but out of interest, I phoned
my insurance company this morning and asked them the question:-

‘‘Suppose I wanted to fit cheaper tyres to my Jag with a
lower speed rating than the ones originally specified by
Jaguar - would I need to notify my insurance company of this
‘modification’ and / or would that automatically invalidate
my insurance policy?’’

The answer to both questions was a firm ‘‘NO’’ - reason, they
are not a ‘performance enhancing modification’.

However, they stressed that the replacement tyres fitted
should be ‘‘suitable for the car in every other respect
including size and weight loading’’ otherwise, in the event
of an accident, questions may be asked about whether the
tyres fitted if not to the original specification were a
contributory factor. So that’s when the lawyers would get
their pound of flesh!–
The original message included these comments:

Coming back to the tyre situation. Obviously the laws vary worldwide,
afterall It appears that there is no such legislation here in the UK.
The decision on what tyre to fit becomes a matter of choice.
To fit cheap under specced tyres may well comply with the law but is it
based purely on finance ?
If so, is that decision a wise one ?
Much the same as a cheap crash helmet for a motorcyclist may well be within
the law but will it save his life ??


Bryan N, '91 Sovereign 4.0 L, (RHD)
Cambridge, United Kingdom
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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My point is often that comments are indicating that a V-rating indicates a
tire with better handling and/or performance. While I hope that would be
true there is nothing in the test that determines a V-rating that requires
that. The test the gives a tire a V-rating simply is a structural integrity
test at higher speeds. It is done by running a tire at 85% it rated load
against a steel roller at diffferent speed steps for a preset period of
time. Then the tire is examined for structural failures.

One Australian poster posted the law from his country that requires that the
tires meet the OEM specs. If you examine that in context of his country it
makes perfect sense. Why? Because from what I have read in the nothern parts
of his country there are large areas which have no speed limits. Therefore
requiring that a cars tire be able to handle the cars maximum speed is
logical.

Some law makers even in the US also believe that the cars tires should be
able to handle the cars top speed because “they cannot be sure that drivers
will obey the speed limits”. That tends to be punishing the law obiding
citizens.----- Original Message -----
From: “Phil Parrington” pp221158@hotmail.com
To: <@David_Boarder>; xj40@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 3:03 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on my
XJ40?

Dave
My point is backed up by the Technical Dept of one of the worlds biggest
tyre manufactuers and the Transport dept of at least one national
Goverment. Both of whom I suspect have made that statement on the back of
much research and knowledge.
Your point is backed up by an Independemt tyre chain ( a chain of 3
worldwide).

Mmmmmm, which statement is likely to carry more weight ???
I know, I will ask my neighbour, afterall he used to work for the AA, he
must know :-))

We must all make a decision based on the facts put before us, I have read
nothing that changes my mind about the correct tyre range suitable for the
car I drive.
If, as it appears that here in the UK ( and apparently the USA) there is
no legal basis against fitting low spec tyres to the XJ6 then it is
clearly down to the owner to make his own choice.
If they opt for the lower spec tyre then that is fine, legally, it does
not however mean that for good , sound technical reasons it is the wrong
decision

Phil

Phil

Find us at
http://www.xjjaguar.co.uk/
Call (+44) 01323 740471 ( 0900-1800 GMT ONLY)

From: “Dave” <@David_Boarder>
To: “Phil Parrington” pp221158@hotmail.com,xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on
my XJ40?
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 19:33:30 -0500

I look at this way.

  • it quite self serving that Pirelli suggests that a consumer buy the most
    expensive tire for their car. Certainly the safest recommendation from
    their point of view.

  • The tire chain simply explains what each spec means (and doesn’t mean)
    with cautions and lets the customer make the decsion. Its from an
    American point of view taking in consideration of North American driving
    conditions.

  • if a particular country has a law reguarding equipment that is specific
    to that country and does not necessarily mean its a good or bad idea.
    Certainly if you reside in that country is prudent to follow that law.
    Laws often correctly reflect conditions in that country or sometimes its
    just politics.

Most of the comments reguarding running lower speed rated tires come
from the North American side where speeds limits are less than 50% a V
tires rating.

----- Original Message ----- From: “Phil Parrington”
pp221158@hotmail.com
To: <@David_Boarder>; xj40@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on
my XJ40?

Very true, however
The two sites I refer to are a little different do you not think ?
One is a Government site referrring to national Law of a particular
country
The other is a statement direct from one of the biggest worldwide tyre
manufacturers…
yours is from a relatively small ( in comparison to Pirelli) independant
tyre chain.

In the Uk we have KwikFit, ATS etc, they employ ‘no brain’ lowest common
denominator staff and I am afraid I have no doubt that the technical
knowledge is not much higher.
If the legal stipulation is that any tyre will do ( and it would appear
to be the case in the UK) then they will say whatever in order to sell
tyres.

To be honest I am surprised that the UK law regarding tyre speed is not
the same as it appears to be in Austrailia, in general our tyre lwas are
quite strict.

Phil

Find us at
http://www.xjjaguar.co.uk/
Call (+44) 01323 740471 ( 0900-1800 GMT ONLY)

From: <@David_Boarder>
To: “Phil Parrington” pp221158@hotmail.com, xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on
my XJ40?
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:41:05 -0500

Here is an interesting site which I found covers the different
ratings quite well.

http://www.autotirecarcare.com/guide/speed.html

From: “Phil Parrington” pp221158@hotmail.com
Date: 2006/01/11 Wed PM 03:27:58 EST
To: xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress
on
my XJ40?

Hi

Further to my earlier post I quote from the Pirelli.co.uk website:

<<Technical Information
Speed rating of replacement car tyres
In addition to ensuring that the load index is equal to or greater
than
that
of the original tyres, Pirelli strongly recommends that replacement
tyres
should be of at least the same speed rating as those fitted when the
vehicle
was manufactured (see footnotes). The main reasons for this
recommendation
are- The original equipment tyre specification was selected to cater

for
the

car’s overall performance, not only in terms of its maximum speed but
also,
for example, its acceleration and handling. Furthermore, they form an
integral part of the design of its suspension, braking and steering
systems.
Vehicle handling, safety and refinement may be adversely affected if
unsuitable tyres are fitted. Tyres of an appropriate speed rating are
essential if the car is driven to its full potential and, even for
everyday
UK motoring, they maintain the car’s design characteristics in terms
of
safety and performance. In some countries it is illegal to drive on
tyres
which are of a lower speed rating than the maximum speed capability
of
the
vehicle. The most common tyre speed ratings, referring to the maximum
speed
capability of the vehicle, are: Pirelli urges motorists to place
safety
above all else when choosing replacement tyres>>

In the UK it is not illegal but recommended that the minimum
manufacturers
rating is at least matched
However:
<
lower
speed rating than the maximum speed capability of the vehicle>>

Other than Australia, which countries are they ??
Perhaps , in the case of the USA it may be what States ??

Food for thought I think

Phil

Find us at
http://www.xjjaguar.co.uk/
Call (+44) 01323 740471 ( 0900-1800 GMT ONLY)

From: <@David_Boarder>
To: “wcmaness” wes@maness.cc, xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more
stress
on my
XJ40?
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:51:42 -0500

Thats true although its not likely that you can get a “cheap”
V-rated
tire as it has to be designed to not come apart at 130MPH. Certainly
that
means it has to seriously reduce sidewall flex and thus heat >
generated.
It
also has to be well balanced etc. That implies certain level of >
quality
control

I certainly think its possible to buy a perforance non V-rated
tire
which will provide compariable handling to a low end V-rated
tire(assuming
you keep to the speed rating). Of course the price might not be that
much
different either.

From: “wcmaness” wes@maness.cc
Date: 2006/01/11 Wed PM 12:57:45 EST
To: xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress
on
my
XJ40?

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for >
exciting
services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary /
Calendar,
On
Line Books and more !

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for
exciting
services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar,
On Line Books and more !

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting
services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar,
On Line Books and more !

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting
services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On
Line Books and more !

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !

In reply to a message from Phil Parrington sent Thu 12 Jan 2006:

Irrespective of the fact that we have varied degrees and
bases for disagreement - this has been a wonderful
discussion. I have learned a lot.

I will point out that the referenced tire chain is not a
chain of ‘‘3’’ as suggested earlier - it is the largest
Nationwide US Tire Store in existence. I couldn’t even
guess how many stores there are. If you go to their web
site, it will lead you through a detailed analysis of tires
and all the current ratings.

Phil’s argument about heat & belt wear is unquestionably
valid - but that saftey issue is no longer dictated by the
speed rating. Rather, all tires now days ALSO have a load
rating, to accomodate a higher weight vehicle - like our
Jags. You can safely get an H rated tire, which is load
rated for a 2 or 3 ton vehicle. That’s why the H rated are
safe these days for the XJ40. Tires have come a long way
since our XJ40’s were manufactured. It’s no longer JUST a
speed rating which deals with belt & road heat.

Realizing that cars which will never exceed 149 mph - thus
not requiring a Z rated tread/belt/rubber - still need the
heat and weight load protection as well, a load rating was
developed and implemented in manufacture of tires for normal
drivers. There you have it. Heck - tires even have an
expiration date on them now (good for those who store cars &
don’t realize the little used rubber has lost its integrity
but still looks good).

If the cost differential were only $20.00 a tire, I might
just go the Z route too - but I have not found it to be that
low. More importantly, Z rated tires are much softer & wear
our much much faster - thereby increasing this unnecessary
cost even more.

Ok - I’m ready to be ripped apart again. I must say again,
this is quite interesting.–
WCManess - 1991 XJ40/6 - Black/Grey - 4.0 liter
Arlington/Texas, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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Dave,

You should not be fixated in the speed rating being all there is to it.
There are many design factors in a tire, every tire and speed is only
one of them. On V rated tires the other factors are also accordingly
better than they would be on an H rated tire.

The big problem with using an H rated tire on a car suspensions designed
for V rated tires should have V rated tires or better, not only for
speed but because the V tuned suspension put more stress and produce
more heat in an H rated tire under all conditions from 0 to 100 mph than
it will for the V rated tire on the same car.

The speed rating is directly related to amount of heat the tire can
handle or vice versa the amount of heat a given type of tire will
generate under a given load. Naturally the belts and belt strength are
higher on the V rated tire, the side walls thicker to take the higher
side load thrust generated by the V tuned suspension and the rubber
compound and belt pattern designed to produce less heat for any given
speed.

Its false economy to put an H rated tire on your Jaguar. It wont last
as long as it would on car with an H rated suspension [assuming similar
weight and loading] because the H rated tire will develop more heat
under all speeds on the V rated suspension. Heat causes the rubber to
harden which reduces the stopping and cornering traction. Heat causes
the belts to delaminate over time. So putting more heat on the H rated
tire than it was desinged to take regardless of speed is going to make
it not only perform worse it will deteriorate faster and have less
stopping power in general and in particular less on wet roads.

Not to mention that if you drive it 80-90 mph as most people do around
my part of the country on the interstate highways here you will find
belts snapping fairly quickly on the H rated tire. Another factor is
the softness of the rubber in the tire when new. In particular the
Pirelli tires specified have a very soft rubber which is why most people
don’t get as good mileage as some of the H rated tires with harder
rubber used on cars with H rated suspensions. If you want to substitute
an H rated tire for a V rated tire because you are driving less than 100
mph all the time, you would need to find one with the same durometer
[softness rating of the rubber] as the V rated one or affect you
stopping distance nd cornering ability in general and in particular on
wet or icy roads. Finding an H rated tire with that soft a rubber may
be hard to do as they generally all have much harder rubber so they can
give you that 60,000 mile tread wear guarantee to go with the $65
bargain price.

Jay 90 VDP Majestic [Pirelli P4000 ST W rated for 189 mph BTW they only
cost about $10 ea. more than the cheapest H rated tire I could find at
the tire shop]

PS Why anyone would sacrifice stopping distance and handing on wet roads
to save $40 on a set tires is a mystery to me, never mind the risk the H
rated tires already hard rubber will harden much more rapidly on a V
rates suspension designed to put more stress on the tires than an H
rated one would. Forget the fact that the specified tire give a
smoother more comfortable ride which is what people by a luxury car like
a Jaguar for.

dboarder@sympatico.ca wrote:

Limited by what? The CPU or the Ocean?
Does that mean all your cars that can do more than 100MPH must have V-rated tires?

From: Norman Watkins norman@norman-watkins.fsnet.co.uk
Date: 2006/01/11 Wed AM 11:57:10 EST
To: xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on my XJ40?

Dave

Cars here that are limiteed are limiteed to 155 mph!

NW

Dave wrote:

Most of the cars in North America are running on less than V-rated
tires. Most of those cars are likely capable of speeds above 100MPH
(many modern cars are CPU speed limited for liability reasons).

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !

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In reply to a message from wcmaness sent Thu 12 Jan 2006:

very good point to bring up, ‘‘WC’’ … Our AOL News had an article
on just this topic earlier last year. It showed how to find and de-
code the manufacture date (month and year) off your sidewalls and
the importance of not buying a tire that is more than two years old
(I believe that was the benchmark, it might be a year or two
longer, though) … Sometimes tires will sit in a warehouse or on a
shelf for several years before being sold, esp. the V-rated
ones … Looking back now I wonder if the Mickey V that ‘‘unraveled’’
on me that fateful day on the service road was an ‘‘oldie’’ … Old
tires are a major safety issue and a possible disaster just waiting
to happen, yet the general public is mostly unaware of this hazard
(I know I was until I read the article) … I wonder if we should
pass some laws making it unlawful to see tires past a certain
expiration date (or at least as ‘‘new’’ tires) …

btw, re: Phil’s comment on motorcycle helmets, I’m still stunned
that Texas repealed our helmet law a few years ago. I guess the
legislature was pressured into it by biker groups. Very strange
for a state which has such a strict (and strictly enforced)
seatbelt law!–
The original message included these comments:

drivers. There you have it. Heck - tires even have an
expiration date on them now (good for those who store cars &
don’t realize the little used rubber has lost its integrity
but still looks good).


&:-)) Paul '88 XJ6 VDP 130k & '88 XJ6 VDP 180k
Garland, Texas, United States
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Rememeber a H rated tire is good for 130MPH a V-rated tire is good for up 149MPH. That is not a such a drastic difference to be noted by anyone driving around at 70MPH or less.

Now if your talking about moving from V to S(112MPH). that might be significant.

From: Jay tigrr01@longlines.com
Date: 2006/01/12 Thu AM 10:54:22 EST
To: @David_Boarder
CC: Norman Watkins norman@norman-watkins.fsnet.co.uk, xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on my XJ40?

Dave,

You should not be fixated in the speed rating being all there is to it.
There are many design factors in a tire, every tire and speed is only
one of them. On V rated tires the other factors are also accordingly
better than they would be on an H rated tire.

The big problem with using an H rated tire on a car suspensions designed
for V rated tires should have V rated tires or better, not only for
speed but because the V tuned suspension put more stress and produce
more heat in an H rated tire under all conditions from 0 to 100 mph than
it will for the V rated tire on the same car.

The speed rating is directly related to amount of heat the tire can
handle or vice versa the amount of heat a given type of tire will
generate under a given load. Naturally the belts and belt strength are
higher on the V rated tire, the side walls thicker to take the higher
side load thrust generated by the V tuned suspension and the rubber
compound and belt pattern designed to produce less heat for any given
speed.

Its false economy to put an H rated tire on your Jaguar. It wont last
as long as it would on car with an H rated suspension [assuming similar
weight and loading] because the H rated tire will develop more heat
under all speeds on the V rated suspension. Heat causes the rubber to
harden which reduces the stopping and cornering traction. Heat causes
the belts to delaminate over time. So putting more heat on the H rated
tire than it was desinged to take regardless of speed is going to make
it not only perform worse it will deteriorate faster and have less
stopping power in general and in particular less on wet roads.

Not to mention that if you drive it 80-90 mph as most people do around
my part of the country on the interstate highways here you will find
belts snapping fairly quickly on the H rated tire. Another factor is
the softness of the rubber in the tire when new. In particular the
Pirelli tires specified have a very soft rubber which is why most people
don’t get as good mileage as some of the H rated tires with harder
rubber used on cars with H rated suspensions. If you want to substitute
an H rated tire for a V rated tire because you are driving less than 100
mph all the time, you would need to find one with the same durometer
[softness rating of the rubber] as the V rated one or affect you
stopping distance nd cornering ability in general and in particular on
wet or icy roads. Finding an H rated tire with that soft a rubber may
be hard to do as they generally all have much harder rubber so they can
give you that 60,000 mile tread wear guarantee to go with the $65
bargain price.

Jay 90 VDP Majestic [Pirelli P4000 ST W rated for 189 mph BTW they only
cost about $10 ea. more than the cheapest H rated tire I could find at
the tire shop]

PS Why anyone would sacrifice stopping distance and handing on wet roads
to save $40 on a set tires is a mystery to me, never mind the risk the H
rated tires already hard rubber will harden much more rapidly on a V
rates suspension designed to put more stress on the tires than an H
rated one would. Forget the fact that the specified tire give a
smoother more comfortable ride which is what people by a luxury car like
a Jaguar for.

@David_Boarder wrote:

Limited by what? The CPU or the Ocean?
Does that mean all your cars that can do more than 100MPH must have V-rated tires?

From: Norman Watkins norman@norman-watkins.fsnet.co.uk
Date: 2006/01/11 Wed AM 11:57:10 EST
To: xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xj40] Does higher speed cause that much more stress on my XJ40?

Dave

Cars here that are limiteed are limiteed to 155 mph!

NW

Dave wrote:

Most of the cars in North America are running on less than V-rated
tires. Most of those cars are likely capable of speeds above 100MPH
(many modern cars are CPU speed limited for liability reasons).

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In reply to a message from AttyDallas sent Thu 12 Jan 2006:

Paul,

I’ve seen some of those biker groups - all leather and
tatoos. Who’s going to argue with them!!! :-)–
The original message included these comments:

btw, re: Phil’s comment on motorcycle helmets, I’m still stunned
that Texas repealed our helmet law a few years ago. I guess the
legislature was pressured into it by biker groups. Very strange


Bryan N, '91 Sovereign 4.0 L, (RHD)
Cambridge, United Kingdom
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