[xj40] Engine stopped, 6 plugs full of oil, no buzz from fuel pump

XJ40
1

Hello!

I was driving my car today and the engine started to stall and I
barely had time to turn to a parking lot at a fast food restaurant
but I made it. I tried to start the engine and after maybe the 5th
trial it started but every time I tried to rev it up it wanted to
stop plus I noticed a popping sound from the left front of the
engine bay around the air filter or maybe the charcoal canister.
What could that sound be? Then I noticed all 6 plugs were full of
oil, the valve cover bolts were not tight enough and that filled
the plugs with oil. I also noticed there’s no 1 second burst sound
from the fuel pump. I only replaced the rotor and cleaned the plugs
and holes. After that the engine only cranks but does not start at
all. I haven’t checked the fuel pump relay, it’s not too old, max.
1.5 year old, 1 year old FPR, 3.5 year old fuel filter, don’t know
anything about the injectors.
Are these three things (oily plugs, popping sound from the engine
bay, no burst sound from fuel pump) related somehow?
Thanks for any advice in advance!
Joseph–
'94 XJ40, 703111, Matilda, My sweet sixteen, Naples, Fl
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2

In reply to a message from Joe77 sent Thu 23 Dec 2010:

I don’t think all the observations are related.

The engine dying, being very difficult to start, refusing to
rev, the popping through the air cleaner and no buzz are all
symptoms of a failed pump. Probably the best thing to do is
actually check the fuel pressure to know for sure.

The oil in the spark plug wells is probably totally
independent of the rest. Since the gasket set is pretty
new, your diagnosis of loose bolts is probably spot on.–
The original message included these comments:

I was driving my car today and the engine started to stall and I
barely had time to turn to a parking lot at a fast food restaurant
but I made it. I tried to start the engine and after maybe the 5th
trial it started but every time I tried to rev it up it wanted to
stop plus I noticed a popping sound from the left front of the
engine bay around the air filter or maybe the charcoal canister.
Are these three things (oily plugs, popping sound from the engine
bay, no burst sound from fuel pump) related somehow?

–
91 XJ6, 93 Sov, 97 Sov – Driveway’s crowded!
Tampa Fl, United States
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3

In reply to a message from Win sent Fri 24 Dec 2010:

Win,

thank you for your response. My first thought was also the fuel
pump. When I turned the ignition in the 2nd position my friend was
standing very close to the fuel tank behind my car and he didn’t
hear anything then we switched place and I also heard no buzz sound
from the pump. I tried to suck out as much oil from the spark plugs
as I could but when I removed them some oil went into the cylinders
and since I had no success to start the car that oil is sitting on
the top of the pistons right now.
I’m gonna order new spark plug seals just to be safe. The tow truck
driver was pretty cool, he had a '99 XJ8 so he knows a thing or two
about this mark.
I’ll report back later.
Cheers!
Joseph–
'94 XJ40, 703111, Matilda, My sweet sixteen, Naples, Fl
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4

In reply to a message from Joe77 sent Fri 24 Dec 2010:

Change fuel pump = problem solved!
I had the same problem last month on my 1994 XJ40. Sudden death and
no action on fuel pump.–
Maxieboy
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5

In reply to a message from Maxieboy sent Fri 24 Dec 2010:

Thanks Maxieboy for your advice!
Joseph–
'94 XJ40, 703111, Matilda, My sweet sixteen, Naples, Fl
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6

In reply to a message from Joe77 sent Fri 24 Dec 2010:

Joseph,

Before you rip the tank out to replace the fuel pump, make
sure that the pump is the problem and not the fuel pump circuit.

I’ve posted this check list a few times. Here’s an example
from an earlier post - try it :-

http://forums.jag-lovers.org/avsn.php?1339727l49--
The original message included these comments:

Thanks Maxieboy for your advice!

–
Bryan N, '91 Sovereign 4.0 L, RHD
Cambridgeshire, United Kingdom
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7

In reply to a message from Bryan N sent Fri 24 Dec 2010:

Bryan,

I read you post via the link you provided and I will check the the
circuit before I do anything silly. :slight_smile:
Thank you!
Joseph–
'94 XJ40, 703111, Matilda, My sweet sixteen, Naples, Fl
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8

In reply to a message from Joe77 sent Fri 24 Dec 2010:

I checked the voltage at the relay bases and the relays that Bryan
suggested. I got 13.1 volts in the relay bases and the relays click
too. When I jump wired the fuel pump relay base I heard the pump
running continuosly but it was very quite, I had to lean pretty
close to the spare wheel to hear something. Then about 30 min.
later I did this test and I heard nothing from the pump.
No blown fuses.
Joseph–
'94 XJ40, 703111, Matilda, My sweet sixteen, Naples, Fl
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9

In reply to a message from Joe77 sent Mon 27 Dec 2010:

Joseph,

Just to clarify. So, having proved that you have battery
voltage on the fuel pump relay base are you now saying that
in this test from my check list you do not hear the pump
running?

‘’* If yes, jump pin 30 (Brown/yellow) and pin 87 (Blue/red)
in fuel pump relay base - does the pump run continuously?’’

Your only option now is to gain access to the connector on
top of the fuel tank evaporative loss flange so that you can
apply 12 volts directly to the pump via the wiring inside
the tank to prove whether the fault is in that wiring or the
pump itself. Of course, with that connector removed and the
jump wire still in place on the relay base, you can also
check if that battery voltage is getting through to the
connector on top of the tank.–
The original message included these comments:

I checked the voltage at the relay bases and the relays that Bryan
suggested. I got 13.1 volts in the relay bases and the relays click
too. When I jump wired the fuel pump relay base I heard the pump
running continuosly but it was very quite, I had to lean pretty
close to the spare wheel to hear something. Then about 30 min.
later I did this test and I heard nothing from the pump.
No blown fuses.

–
Bryan N, '91 Sovereign 4.0 L, RHD
Cambridgeshire, United Kingdom
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10

In reply to a message from Bryan N sent Mon 27 Dec 2010:

Bryan,

I jump wired the fuel pump relay base twice. First time I heard the
pump running but it was quite. Then I started to deal with the left
rear light cover (earlier post) 'cause the brake light is not as
bright as the right side. Turned out it’s dirty between the inside
and outside plastic covers. Dirt got in there somehow. After that
just for the curiosity I did the test again but this time I heard
nothing from the pump. The battery is getting real low 'cause a lot
of starting on Thur. when the problem started. Now the engine won’t
turn over at all. I’ll do the direct test with the pump and check
the wiring if any voltage is getting through to the connector.
Thank you Bryan!
Joseph–
'94 XJ40, 703111, Matilda, My sweet sixteen, Naples, Fl
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11

In reply to a message from Joe77 sent Mon 27 Dec 2010:

I recharged the battery and did some test on the fuel pump circuit.
First I had to replace the C6 fuse on the right side, something
must blew it a day before when I did the first tests. Then I jump
wired the pump relay base and I heard the pump running but it was
quiet and shy. So that means I have the voltage going through the
wires and the connectors. I also hooked up the pump to the battery
directly by some thin speaker wires and in the first 3 times the
wires got realy hot and started to melt. Scared everything out of
me. :slight_smile: Then I did the same test a few more times without the wires
getting hot and melting. With the jump wire in the pump relay base
I ran to the front seat and started the car. It started but I had
to keep the rev. above 1500. The engine stopped at idling. It looks
to me the pump can’t keep up with the engine. No CEL and no codes.
Joseph–
'94 XJ40, 703111, Matilda, My sweet sixteen, Naples, Fl
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12

In reply to a message from Joe77 sent Wed 29 Dec 2010:

Joe,

Doesn’t sound good - but try this.

Start the engine by jumping the relay base and then remove
the jump lead to stop the engine (that ensures that the fuel
system is de pressurised). Turn off the ignition.

Disconnect the fuel feed line to the rail at the rear of the
rail. Attach a length of rubber tubing so that you can
direct the fuel in to a suitable measuring jug / container.
Jump the fuel pump relay and time the running of the pump.
After exactly one (1) minute, stop the pump.
You should have about 2 litres of fuel in the container.

[The pump output is supposed to be about 120 litres per hour]

That should at least give you some indication of the output
from the pump under no load - assuming that the fuel filter
is not clogged.–
The original message included these comments:

I ran to the front seat and started the car. It started but I had
to keep the rev. above 1500. The engine stopped at idling. It looks
to me the pump can’t keep up with the engine. No CEL and no codes.

–
Bryan N, '91 Sovereign 4.0 L, RHD
Cambridgeshire, United Kingdom
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13

In reply to a message from Bryan N sent Wed 29 Dec 2010:

Bryan,

thank you for giving me this test idea. I’ll do that and report
back about the result.
Joseph–
'94 XJ40, 703111, Matilda, My sweet sixteen, Naples, Fl
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14

In reply to a message from Joe77 sent Wed 29 Dec 2010:

Bryan,

I PM-d you with pictures.
Joseph–
'94 XJ40, 703111, Matilda, My sweet sixteen, Naples, Fl
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15

In reply to a message from Joe77 sent Wed 29 Dec 2010:

Joseph,

I’ve replied! :-)–
The original message included these comments:

I PM-d you with pictures.

–
Bryan N, '91 Sovereign 4.0 L, RHD
Cambridgeshire, United Kingdom
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16

In reply to a message from Bryan N sent Wed 29 Dec 2010:

Please don’t keep us in suspense!
Dave–
The original message included these comments:

I’ve replied! :slight_smile:

I PM-d you with pictures.

–
The most valuable commodity is hindsight
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17

In reply to a message from thedebs53 sent Thu 30 Dec 2010:

Dave,

Joseph will have to tell you. ;-)–
The original message included these comments:

Please don’t keep us in suspense!
Dave

The original message included these comments:

I’ve replied! :slight_smile:

I PM-d you with pictures.

–
Bryan N, '91 Sovereign 4.0 L, RHD
Cambridgeshire, United Kingdom
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18

In reply to a message from Bryan N sent Thu 30 Dec 2010:

Dave,

I did the test Bryan suggested and attached 3 pics of it. Nothing
special. BTW, It took 2 minutes to get 2 liters of fuel, I tested
the injectors, they click.
Bryan, I PM-d you this time without pictures. :smiley:
Joseph

P.S.: the fuel needle just starting to get in the red line. How
much fuel can be in the tank? I need to know how big container I
need in case I need to pull the tank out.–
'94 XJ40, 703111, Matilda, My sweet sixteen, Naples, Fl
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19

In reply to a message from Joe77 sent Thu 30 Dec 2010:

Joe,

In response to your post and your latest PM.

If you only get one litre per minute under ‘no load’
conditions, (it is supposed to pump at 2 litres per minute
at 3 bar pressure) it may be a problem with the pump itself,
or a leak from the pump-to-module ‘donut’ seal or the feed
pipe inside the tank I mentioned previously or it may be a
partially clogged pick-up filter sock inside the tank or the
in-line filter.

You could try disconnecting the feed line upstream of the
in-line filter and attaching a suitable tube to it, try the
flow rate test again to see if it improves.

At some stage you may also need to check the actual fuel
pressure in the rail because flow without pressure (which
you may get from a worn pump) is no good.

As to your question about fuel remaining in the tank, I can
only recount my experience earlier this year when I was
close to running out of petrol.

On my car. the fuel gauge needle was not only in the red
zone, it was actually ‘on the stop’ and the little fuel pump
icon was illuminated on the dash.

My tank took the equivalent of 19.4 US gallons to fill it to
the brim whereas the ‘official’ tank capacity is quoted as
22.8 US gallons. So I reckon there was up to 3.4 US gallons
left in the bottom of the tank when all of the cockpit
indications said it was near zero.

If you want to drain the tank to the maximum degree, you can
do so by disconnecting the feed pipe at the rail with a tube
then attached to feed the fuel in to containers (or another
car) and jump the fuel pump relay base to run the pump
continuously until it is sucking air (then stop quickly!)

I made up a long jump lead with suitable spade terminals
with a spring-loaded toggle switch so that I could operate
the fuel pump relay from afar and control the flow in to
containers and my other car.–
The original message included these comments:

I did the test Bryan suggested and attached 3 pics of it. Nothing
special. BTW, It took 2 minutes to get 2 liters of fuel, I tested
the injectors, they click.
Bryan, I PM-d you this time without pictures. :smiley:
Joseph
P.S.: the fuel needle just starting to get in the red line. How
much fuel can be in the tank? I need to know how big container I
need in case I need to pull the tank out.

–
Bryan N, '91 Sovereign 4.0 L, RHD
Cambridgeshire, United Kingdom
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20

Joe.
I would suggest that if the nedle is that close to the red then there will
be no problem pulling the tank as is.
The fuel lines are held in by clips which only require a 90 deg twist to
allow the hose to be removed. There is no appreciable loss of fuel when they
come off,.
(Warning you will need to dislocate your neck to see the clips, fingers and
elbows to get past the dif :slight_smile:

Regards Robin O’Connor
'92 XJ40 4.0 Ltr
Auckland NZ----- Original Message -----
From: “Bryan N” sophistic@btopenworld.com
To: xj40@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: [xj40] Engine stopped, 6 plugs full of oil, no buzz from fuel
pump

In reply to a message from Joe77 sent Thu 30 Dec 2010:

Joe,

In response to your post and your latest PM.

If you only get one litre per minute under ‘no load’
conditions, (it is supposed to pump at 2 litres per minute
at 3 bar pressure) it may be a problem with the pump itself,
or a leak from the pump-to-module ‘donut’ seal or the feed
pipe inside the tank I mentioned previously or it may be a
partially clogged pick-up filter sock inside the tank or the
in-line filter.

You could try disconnecting the feed line upstream of the
in-line filter and attaching a suitable tube to it, try the
flow rate test again to see if it improves.

At some stage you may also need to check the actual fuel
pressure in the rail because flow without pressure (which
you may get from a worn pump) is no good.

As to your question about fuel remaining in the tank, I can
only recount my experience earlier this year when I was
close to running out of petrol.

On my car. the fuel gauge needle was not only in the red
zone, it was actually ‘on the stop’ and the little fuel pump
icon was illuminated on the dash.

My tank took the equivalent of 19.4 US gallons to fill it to
the brim whereas the ‘official’ tank capacity is quoted as
22.8 US gallons. So I reckon there was up to 3.4 US gallons
left in the bottom of the tank when all of the cockpit
indications said it was near zero.

If you want to drain the tank to the maximum degree, you can
do so by disconnecting the feed pipe at the rail with a tube
then attached to feed the fuel in to containers (or another
car) and jump the fuel pump relay base to run the pump
continuously until it is sucking air (then stop quickly!)

I made up a long jump lead with suitable spade terminals
with a spring-loaded toggle switch so that I could operate
the fuel pump relay from afar and control the flow in to
containers and my other car.

–
The original message included these comments:

I did the test Bryan suggested and attached 3 pics of it. Nothing
special. BTW, It took 2 minutes to get 2 liters of fuel, I tested
the injectors, they click.
Bryan, I PM-d you this time without pictures. :smiley:
Joseph
P.S.: the fuel needle just starting to get in the red line. How
much fuel can be in the tank? I need to know how big container I
need in case I need to pull the tank out.

–
Bryan N, '91 Sovereign 4.0 L, RHD
Cambridgeshire, United Kingdom
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On
Line Books and more !

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !