[xk] 54 XK 120 tire pump

Would one expect the pump to be appx 18’’ in length and have the
word ‘‘Shelly’’ stamped in it at some place? – Regards/ Joel
Miller/Tulsa Ok–
Joel Miller
Tulsa Oklahoma, United States
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In reply to a message from Joel Miller sent Wed 29 Oct 2014:

The 18’’ body length sounds approximately correct.
There was some variation in the details of the pump from the
1930s through the 1950s. There is a reproduction pump on the
market, and I recently learned that it duplicates some of
the 1930s details rather than the 1950s. If you are asking
about those details, we would need to delve further into the
subject.
Here is my original pump from my 1950 Mark V. There is no
name anywhere on it.
http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1365904861--
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
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Joel,

In a word NO.

One has to appreciate that in the 1920s/30s/40s and early 50s there was any
number of different British Manufacturers of TYRE PUMPS (and presumably also
American manufacturers of Tire Pumps), each of which made one or model of
pump, and each of which evolved their design/detail over the years, to
supply to the motor industry including Jaguar for their provided tool-kits
but also through various outlets to all the other users, of which Push-Bike
owners were many.

Jaguar, or should I say SS Cars Ltd first provided tyre pumps in 1932 to
their first model SS.1 and continued to all 1930s SS Models, then post-war
to Mark IV and Mark V saloons, and specifically to your inquiry XK120, but
then dropped what had become a somewhat quaint/useless tool. Have you ever
tried to pump up a car tyre to 30-35 psi using a hand-pump!

But just in this postwar 1945 to 1954 period, although there was ONLY the
one manufacturer/model of pump supplied to Jaguar for Mark IV, V and XK120
tool-kits, there were three distinct variations in its detail, albeit same
physical size and same functionality, thus always Jaguar Part No C.997.

They had NO manufacturers identity on them anywhere or in any form, cast,
stamped, engraved, suggesting maybe a sticker/decal may have been used, but
after now sighting many original C.997 pumps, none of which have any sign of
a sticker/decal I have to assume not even that. I still do not know who
actually made the C.997 Tyre Pump.

SHELLEY was in fact one of the more prolific post-war tool and equipment
manufacturers, who amongst other things also made a Tyre Pump as readily
identified my having SHELLEY cast into its folding feet. Maybe they also
made pumps with no identification on them as well. Certainly the SHELLEY
pump (certain versions/models) can be very similar to a C.997.

But as far as a C.997 pump is concerned, no identification at all, and
overall length from top of 7" wide timber handle (painted BLACK by 1954 -
but clear varnish before 1951), to the bottom of the feet when folded out
for use, is 20-3/8" (albeit depending on exact fit of plunger-handle) you
can have +/- 1/4". The main tube part of the pump, top of top-brass-cap,
to bottom of cast-iron-cal is 18" with an 1-1/4" diameter.

So there are the basic dimensions - once you locate a pump matching these
dimensions, and with no manufacturers identity on it, there are other
characteristics that can positively identify pump as being XK120 or not.

But until then, with an XK120 pump being simply clipped within the boot-area
side-wall, many a more easily found substitute can be used, until you find a
correct one. Mark IV and V owners at least need a pump close to correct
size, as it has to fit within the assigned tool-tray recess.

Roger Payne - XK140MC OTS; E-Type 4.2 S.1 OTS; DSV8.
Canberra.-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xk@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xk@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf Of
Joel Miller
Sent: Thursday, 30 October 2014 2:51 AM
To: xk@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [xk] 54 XK 120 tire pump

Would one expect the pump to be appx 18’’ in length and have the
word ‘‘Shelly’’ stamped in it at some place? – Regards/ Joel
Miller/Tulsa Ok

Joel Miller
Tulsa Oklahoma, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

Joel M;
Ya might want to reset your computer’s clock… You are at least a day
ahead of the rest of us… And if you really DO have a time machine,
check the stock market for some really good profit makers and advise
the rest of us, we could use the money to aid in restoring our XK’s!! ;-}
Charles #677556.
http://xktx.org----- Original Message -----
From: Joel Miller
Sent: Thursday, 30 October 2014 2:51 AM
To: xk@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [xk] 54 XK 120 tire pump

Would one expect the pump to be appx 18’’ in length and have the
word ‘‘Shelly’’ stamped in it at some place? – Regards/ Joel
Miller/Tulsa Ok

In reply to a message from Joel Miller sent Wed 29 Oct 2014:

The relatively common Shelley tyre pump is often claimed to be the
correct pump for an XK120. The pump that was actually supplied to
the XK120 (and other early Jaguars) is now quite rare. I’ve
uploaded photos showing a side-by-side comparison of the Shelley
tyre pump and the Jaguar tyre pump.

www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1414621864--
Mike Balch
Iowa, United States
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In reply to a message from Mike Balch sent Wed 29 Oct 2014:

I thank all responders ---- A good education here for me -Regards/
Joel Miller–
The original message included these comments:

uploaded photos showing a side-by-side comparison of the Shelley


Joel/Tulsa
Tulsa Ok, United States
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Well done with the photos of the TYRE PUMP Mike.

Note however, that the PUMP you have pictured is the third and final of
three variants used by Jaguar post-war in Mark IV, Mark V saloons and XK120.

The BLACK handle rather than a clear-varnished handle is typical of the
Third Variant, from what I can so far ascertain introduced in about 1950, so
this pic is perfect for XK120, less so for Mark V and not correct for Mark
IV.

But the TYRE-FLEX/HOSE shown is someones reproduction, and not all that
accurate. The end-fittings are totally wrong, and the crimping band
arrangement is wrong, the braided-cotton cover over the hose looks OK.

Roger Payne - XK140MC OTS; E-Type 4.2 S.1 OTS; DSV8.
Canberra.-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xk@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xk@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf Of
Mike Balch
Sent: Thursday, 30 October 2014 12:59 PM
To: xk@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xk] 54 XK 120 tire pump

In reply to a message from Joel Miller sent Wed 29 Oct 2014:

The relatively common Shelley tyre pump is often claimed to be the
correct pump for an XK120. The pump that was actually supplied to
the XK120 (and other early Jaguars) is now quite rare. I’ve
uploaded photos showing a side-by-side comparison of the Shelley
tyre pump and the Jaguar tyre pump.

www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1414621864

Mike Balch
Iowa, United States
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In reply to a message from Roger Payne sent Wed 29 Oct 2014:

When I acquired the Jaguar pump, the hose was broken off. Thus,
the green hose, the brass hose end, and the two brass attaching
ferrules shown on the Jaguar pump are new. In the fifth photo I’ve
shown what I believe to be an original green hose, brass hose end,
and brass attaching ferrule from another Jaguar pump.

These original Jaguar pumps are very difficult to find in the USA.
The best option seems to be the reproduction pumps now being made.
However, the reproduction pumps typically have a varnished wood
handle and brass folding feet. A little black spray paint on the
wood handle and brass feet would make these pumps a suitable
replacement for the pumps Jaguar supplied to the XK120.–
The original message included these comments:

But the TYRE-FLEX/HOSE shown is someones reproduction, and not all that
accurate. The end-fittings are totally wrong, and the crimping band
arrangement is wrong, the braided-cotton cover over the hose looks OK.


Mike Balch
Iowa, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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In reply to a message from Roger Payne sent Wed 29 Oct 2014:

When I acquired my XK120 in 1991 it had been in storage for 21
years. A little over 20,000 miles on the clock, mostly complete and
unrestored. Present from the boot area were the original tool roll
but with many of the tools missing, original Dunlop SP5 wide
whitewall spare tire and hold down, correct jack and handle but
definitely a Shelley tyre pump, which I recognise as incorrect.

How is it Shelley pumps came to be commonly associated with the
XK120 and the Jaguar pump got to be so rare? Could it be Shelleys
were functionally superior and commonly substituted?–
The original message included these comments:

Note however, that the PUMP you have pictured is the third and final of
three variants used by Jaguar post-war in Mark IV, Mark V saloons and XK120.
The BLACK handle rather than a clear-varnished handle is typical of the
Third Variant, from what I can so far ascertain introduced in about 1950, so
The relatively common Shelley tyre pump is often claimed to be the
correct pump for an XK120. The pump that was actually supplied to
the XK120 (and other early Jaguars) is now quite rare. I’ve
uploaded photos showing a side-by-side comparison of the Shelley
tyre pump and the Jaguar tyre pump.


Nick Saltarelli '68 Cdn mkt E-type S1� OTS, '54 XK120SE OTS
Niagara, Ontario, Canada
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In reply to a message from N�ck sent Fri 31 Oct 2014:

Nick,

You raise an interesting point about the pumps, and I can also
answer Roger and say I have pumped up more than one XK tire
with a hand pump, but certainly my last, and that may well be
the reason people substituted.

But to come at it from another angle, you consider you car to
be original based on low mileage and having been stored for 21
years. The other side of that coin is that the car was already
15-20 years old, and not worth a great deal when put away. I
rather nicely restored and painted my 1954 in 1968 and I could
not get $800 for it in 1970 which was 1/4 the cost of a new
Mustang. Cars of that ilk just were not often treated as rare
and treated as if original was very important,and if the Jaguar
pumps were peculiar to only the early model it is quite likely
you could not even get a correct replacement from a dealer.

By the time I put my car away similarly, it had already
acquired replacement carbs, non-original wire wheels,
aftermarket radio, replacement instruments and non-original
wiring, an aftermarket wood steering wheel, non-leather
upholstery, aftermarket extruded aluminum framed side curtains,
rubber floor mats, a replacement grill, and removal of license
plate mount, bonnet latch mechanism, and original boot latch to
name a few.

It is important to think carefully about expectations of
originality once one gets beyond being able to go over the car
with the original owner who took delivery new, has complete
service records, and can answer questions about things that may
not seem quite right.

Karl–
karl
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Nick,

Unfortunately it is relatively easy to prove something WAS original, but
very hard to prove something was NON-ORIGINAL - short of checking 100% of
original cars - and that could only be done if you were in the factory
during the total period of interest/concern. So short of having PROOF that
the factory made an error (and that can happen) you have to trust that the
factory documentation is CORRECT.

This is the premise I work on - factory documentation is CORRECT unless
proven otherwise.

Factory documentation tells us there was ONLY the one TYRE PUMP C.997
offered to Mark IV, Mark V and XK120 over the 1945 to 1954 period.
I have factory Engineering Drawing of the C.997 from 1945.
The factory engineering drawing gives very detailed dimensions and other
specifications that CONTROL the interchangeability and functional detail of
the tyre pump. Clearly Jaguar had to CONTROL the physical dimensions so
that a Tyre Pump would fit properly within the profile recesses within a
Mark IV or Mark V tool-tray, and that any “spare-part” C.997 Tyre Pump would
also properly fit. With an XK120, there was no tyre-pump profile, but still
the clips were designed to accommodate a specific tyre-pump-tube diameter,
and the part number remained C.997.

Now over and above this basic C.997 specification and dimensions, I have
identified TWO cosmetic changes over this 9 year period, but neither affect
the basis for remaining a C.997 part number - functionality has not changed,
and dimensions affecting fit in a Mark IV/ V tool-tray have not changed, and
that must also include the diameter of the main-tube, so an XK120’s CLIPS
will still fit/work with an C.997 pump.

The other aspect that deserves mentioning is that with a Mark IV or Mark V,
having a dedicated tool-tray to house/accommodate the tool-kit improves the
chances of a car retaining its original tools rather than have empty
‘missing tool’ recesses, but at least not non-original ‘substitute’ tools.

With an XK120 - a pretty well ‘loose’ tool roll and an intruding/exposed
clipped in position (only) tyre-pump, lead to early loss of original tools.

Normally I would hope/expect a 20 year old car would still retain its
original tools - if thy were still with car - but still there is a real loss
of continuity from factory new, to a 40 year old second-hand-car, that
seriously is at odds with other considerations re originality of a
vulnerable/readily displaced tyre pump.

SHELLEY was a prolific brand of tools readily available from sources not
Jaguar Tyre-Pump related.

I cannot say categorically that no XK120 ever was fitted originally with a
SHELLEY branded tyre-pump, just that evidence to date does not support
anything other than the unbranded tyre-pump as represented within the
factory engineering drawings, as has now been reliably confirmed with many
original cars - if not 100%.

Of course, any views/opinions and owners of ORIGINAL XK120s to a contrary
conclusion, would be most welcome.

Roger

Roger Payne - XK140MC OTS; E-Type 4.2 S.1 OTS; DSV8.
Canberra.-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xk@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xk@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf Of
Níck
Sent: Saturday, 1 November 2014 2:49 AM
To: xk@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [xk] 54 XK 120 tire pump

In reply to a message from Roger Payne sent Wed 29 Oct 2014:

When I acquired my XK120 in 1991 it had been in storage for 21
years. A little over 20,000 miles on the clock, mostly complete and
unrestored. Present from the boot area were the original tool roll
but with many of the tools missing, original Dunlop SP5 wide
whitewall spare tire and hold down, correct jack and handle but
definitely a Shelley tyre pump, which I recognise as incorrect.

How is it Shelley pumps came to be commonly associated with the
XK120 and the Jaguar pump got to be so rare? Could it be Shelleys
were functionally superior and commonly substituted?

The original message included these comments:

Note however, that the PUMP you have pictured is the third and final of
three variants used by Jaguar post-war in Mark IV, Mark V saloons and
XK120.
The BLACK handle rather than a clear-varnished handle is typical of the
Third Variant, from what I can so far ascertain introduced in about 1950,
so
The relatively common Shelley tyre pump is often claimed to be the
correct pump for an XK120. The pump that was actually supplied to
the XK120 (and other early Jaguars) is now quite rare. I’ve
uploaded photos showing a side-by-side comparison of the Shelley
tyre pump and the Jaguar tyre pump.


Nick Saltarelli '68 Cdn mkt E-type S1½ OTS, '54 XK120SE OTS
Niagara, Ontario, Canada
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I’m sure I read a post somewhere where an owner sent their correct tyre pump hose fittings to a company and had a new green cotton braided hose fitted?
Anyone know where that post is or who it was sent to?
Regards, Graham.

I think the place you are speaking of is From the Frame Up, an MG T series restoration parts and service operation. Contact Doug Pelton there and check.