[xk] Alloy doors?

XK
1

It has been my understanding that when the original 120 alloy-
bodied car design was changed to the steel-bodied version, the
alloy bonnet and boot lid were retained as alloy. This practice
apparently continued through to the xk140 models. I have recently
come across data that suggests that the xk140 did for a while also
have alloy doors but were later (around 1956) changed to steel. The
documented history appears uncertain. Can anyone confirm (or
otherwise)from first hand knowledge, that production xk140s did
indeed have alloy doors for a while?
As always,thanks for the input.
Cheers
Jim–
1955 XK140 FHC, 1960 Austin Healey, 1967 E-Type FHC
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

2

Jim,

I can confirm that Jaguar made steel doors for the XK140 DHC late in the
model run since I have a pair.

Page 30 from Porter’s “Original Jaguar XK” says that “later FHCs and DHCs
are reported as having all-steel doors”. Also, I can confirm that the 140
OTS remained alloy throughout the model run.

There has been some discussion about this topic on this list sometime back.
Perhaps the archives will have something more.

Mike----- Original Message -----
From: “JAMES NEWMAN” newman@biomechanical-engineering.com
To: xk@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 10:20 AM
Subject: [xk] Alloy doors??

It has been my understanding that when the original 120 alloy-
bodied car design was changed to the steel-bodied version, the
alloy bonnet and boot lid were retained as alloy. This practice
apparently continued through to the xk140 models. I have recently
come across data that suggests that the xk140 did for a while also
have alloy doors but were later (around 1956) changed to steel. The
documented history appears uncertain. Can anyone confirm (or
otherwise)from first hand knowledge, that production xk140s did
indeed have alloy doors for a while?
As always,thanks for the input.
Cheers
Jim

1955 XK140 FHC, 1960 Austin Healey, 1967 E-Type FHC
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

3

Jim,
I misread your question so I will add to my earlier post. Again, according
to Porter’s book steel skin on the wood frame was adopted in Jul/Aug 1956
(as you noted).

He indicates that the effectivity for this change were from: 804781, 815773,
807447 & 818796.

The all-steel door came much later. I’m not certain that S/N effectivity for
this change has ever been established. The change was certainly in
anticipation of the all steel XK150. Perhaps the doors were prototypes that
managed to get onto the assembly line.

Mike----- Original Message -----
From: “JAMES NEWMAN” newman@biomechanical-engineering.com
To: xk@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 10:20 AM
Subject: [xk] Alloy doors??

It has been my understanding that when the original 120 alloy-
bodied car design was changed to the steel-bodied version, the
alloy bonnet and boot lid were retained as alloy. This practice
apparently continued through to the xk140 models. I have recently
come across data that suggests that the xk140 did for a while also
have alloy doors but were later (around 1956) changed to steel. The
documented history appears uncertain. Can anyone confirm (or
otherwise)from first hand knowledge, that production xk140s did
indeed have alloy doors for a while?
As always,thanks for the input.
Cheers
Jim

1955 XK140 FHC, 1960 Austin Healey, 1967 E-Type FHC
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

4

In reply to a message from Mike Carpenter sent Sat 18 Sep 2010:

My 140 OTS, manuf in dec 1955 has alloy doorskins.–
peder
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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5

In reply to a message from peder sent Sat 18 Sep 2010:

My 1954 DHC, made April 21st of 1954 has steel skinned doors. The
bonnet and boot are aluminum. The doors are definitely original.

Roger–
Roger, 1954 120 DHC BRG, S678300
Tamarac, South Fla., United States
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6

I will leave the detail re XK120 doors to Urs Schmid.

However, with respect to XK140 doors, a lot of research into this, in light
of the source of all the confusion - Service Bulletin 198 of October 1956,
is as follows:-

OTS doors. No confusion, no debate at all - they are totally aluminium
alloy construction with anything non-aluminium added on - eg steel door
hinges and securing setscrews, and riveted on plywood as a tacking strip to
secure the top-roll leather.

DHC and FHC. Service Bulletin No.198 of October 1956 advises that from
Chassis number 804781 (RHD FHC), 807447 (RHD DHC),815773 (LHD FHC) and
818796 (LHD DHC) “Steel Doors” are fitted in place of “Aluminium Doors”
This in face denotes the introduction point of the “ALL STEEL” door
construction as continued on into the following XK150 door construction.

The “…in place of Aluminium Doors” means in place of the previous
construction door that was in fact part aluminium, part steel, and NOT as
implied/misconstrued all aluminium doors. These were in fact a Steel outer
panel (door skin), and steel shut-face panel, but otherwise a timber frame
with Aluminium Hinge Face Panel, Bottom Face Panels and Seal Plates, thus to
the casual observer who puts a magnet against the skin, seemingly a “Steel”
door as implied with the Service Bulletin No.198.

There was also “theoretically” the first “All aluminium Doors”, that had an
aluminium skin and aluminium shut-face panel, as well as everything else
being aluminium on an Ash Timber frame, but I have yet to confirm such a
door actually ever existed, and if they did, most certainly only a very very
few of the first XK140s if at all.

The fact that late XK120 FHC/DHC doors already had steel skins tends to
suggest that in fact there was never an “all aluminium” XK140 FHC/DHC door
however I still leave the possibility open, although many efforts to have
proof of an all aluminium XK140 FHC/DHC door has yet to be produced.

Both the steel skin/aluminium/ash frame door and the later “all steel” door
share the same part number, thus presumably spare part/replacement doors
would be the latest version, and this may explain some claims of “all steel
doors” on early XK140 DHC/FHC, and equally second hand doors could go either
way.

Roger Payne - XK140MC OTS; E-Type 4.2 S.1 OTS; DSV8.
Canberra.-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xk@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xk@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf Of
JAMES NEWMAN
Sent: Sunday, 19 September 2010 3:21 AM
To: xk@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [xk] Alloy doors??

It has been my understanding that when the original 120 alloy-
bodied car design was changed to the steel-bodied version, the
alloy bonnet and boot lid were retained as alloy. This practice
apparently continued through to the xk140 models. I have recently
come across data that suggests that the xk140 did for a while also
have alloy doors but were later (around 1956) changed to steel. The
documented history appears uncertain. Can anyone confirm (or
otherwise)from first hand knowledge, that production xk140s did
indeed have alloy doors for a while?
As always,thanks for the input.
Cheers
Jim

1955 XK140 FHC, 1960 Austin Healey, 1967 E-Type FHC
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

7

Roger,

Thank you for the enlightenment and your usual detail. You are correct to
point out the confusion. During the discussion I led myself to believe that
we were referring to the door skin as being aluminium or steel. My doors are
exactly as you describe in the para below and I have been calling that a
steel door whereas it is a composition of both steel and aluminium.

Now you have pointed this out I think seem to remember a very similar
discussion at least once before. My memory is getting worse and the
remaining brain cell is lonely.

Eric
Church Stretton, UK-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xk@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xk@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf Of
Roger Payne
Sent: 19 September 2010 11:37 AM
To: xk@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [xk] Alloy doors??

The “…in place of Aluminium Doors” means in place of the previous
construction door that was in fact part aluminium, part steel, and NOT as
implied/misconstrued all aluminium doors. These were in fact a Steel outer
panel (door skin), and steel shut-face panel, but otherwise a timber frame
with Aluminium Hinge Face Panel, Bottom Face Panels and Seal Plates, thus to
the casual observer who puts a magnet against the skin, seemingly a “Steel”
door as implied with the Service Bulletin No.198.

Roger Payne - XK140MC OTS; E-Type 4.2 S.1 OTS; DSV8.
Canberra.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xk@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xk@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf Of
JAMES NEWMAN
Sent: Sunday, 19 September 2010 3:21 AM
To: xk@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [xk] Alloy doors??

It has been my understanding that when the original 120 alloy-
bodied car design was changed to the steel-bodied version, the
alloy bonnet and boot lid were retained as alloy. This practice
apparently continued through to the xk140 models. I have recently
come across data that suggests that the xk140 did for a while also
have alloy doors but were later (around 1956) changed to steel. The
documented history appears uncertain. Can anyone confirm (or
otherwise)from first hand knowledge, that production xk140s did
indeed have alloy doors for a while?
As always,thanks for the input.
Cheers
Jim

1955 XK140 FHC, 1960 Austin Healey, 1967 E-Type FHC
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8

In reply to a message from Roger Payne sent Sun 19 Sep 2010:

Roger. Thanks for clearing up the alloy/steel 140FHC door design,
confusion (As I now see in the archives, you have before).
I couldn’t wait to check if the magnets stayed put where they
shouldn’t on my A814141DN (i.e pre production change)and they
DIDN’T. Whew, doors are original not some steel replacements some
30odd years ago.
But you gotta wonder - Why in the world would Jaguar make such a
door design in the first place? The weight saving on the small door
bits is inconsequential and the opportunity for (bimetal)
corrosion, great. Left over OTS door parts maybe??
Cheers
Jim–
The original message included these comments:

DHC and FHC. Service Bulletin No.198 of October 1956 advises that from
Chassis number 804781 (RHD FHC), 807447 (RHD DHC),815773 (LHD FHC) and
818796 (LHD DHC) ‘‘Steel Doors’’ are fitted in place of ‘‘Aluminium Doors’’
This in face denotes the introduction point of the ‘‘ALL STEEL’’ door
construction as continued on into the following XK150 door construction.

–
1955 XK140 FHC, 1960 Austin Healey, 1967 E-Type FHC
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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9

Not sure if this extends to the 140, but my understanding is the 120
aluminium alloy bonnett, doors, and boot lid were to save steel rather than
to reduce weight as steel was in rather short supply after the war. I think
I might have read about that somewhere.

Aside from the cost of materials, steel would probably have been a cheaper
manufacturing option (alloy doesn’t stretch very well when you try to stamp
it in complex shapes) and more practical for use by customers (harder to
dent and easier to repair). But lack of rust might also have been a
consideration. Too bad Sir William isn’t still around to ask.

Is there any research on this?

Bruce

10

I believe I read on this list some time ago that Sir William used airplanes
left over from WW II as a source of alloy. No doubt the price was right.

Gene McGough----- Original Message -----
From: “Bruce Cunningham” bcunning@gmavt.net
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 1:32 PM

Not sure if this extends to the 140, but my understanding is the 120
aluminium alloy bonnett, doors, and boot lid were to save steel rather
than to reduce weight as steel was in rather short supply after the war. I
think I might have read about that somewhere.

Aside from the cost of materials, steel would probably have been a cheaper
manufacturing option (alloy doesn’t stretch very well when you try to
stamp it in complex shapes) and more practical for use by customers
(harder to dent and easier to repair). But lack of rust might also have
been a consideration. Too bad Sir William isn’t still around to ask.

Is there any research on this?

Bruce

11

My left hand drive 140 dhc is pretty early- #S817008, probably October
1954.
While I bought it restored, the previous owner gave me a VERY extensive
photo record of his restoration. When he acquired it, it had no remaining
paint and was all rust brown on the exterior, except for the alum. bonnet
and boot lid. Despite the proof that this car had steel skinned doors when
the restoration began, I too read the posts on this point and assumed that my
car should have had alum. skinned doors.
I am glad to learn that it is probable that the doors on my car are
indeed original-- if not
original to my car, at least original 140 dhc doors. I can now scratch
“searching for original
alum. skinned XK140 doors” from my bucket list. However, as my car is so
early, and it was in poor condition when the restoration began, my car is
missing the original chrome
bood lid spear. Instead, it has a reproduction spear from a later car,
which does not have the correct cross section where it meets my original boot
lid handle. If anyone knows of
one of those original spears, I would love to acquire one.
Regards, Bob McAnelly

12

In reply to a message from Jagdad11@aol.com sent Tue 21 Sep 2010:

My 140 DHC, S818690BW, has aluminum skin over a wood frame.
Joel–
ex jag, '66 E-type S1 4.2, '56 XK140dhc, '97 XJ-6
Denison, TX, United States
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