[xk] Call for TRIPLEX logo on windshield on '51, '52, '54, '57, '60

In reply to a message from Terry Mcgrath sent Sun 10 Jan 2016:

Terry,

Many, many thanks!

Terry - you mentioned the toughened glass XK120 roadster
is 1965?? You mean '49, am I right?
Do you know the body no of the roadster? This could help
us to narrow the range…

One interesting bit is the dot in between the XXX logo.
Sometimes it’s there sometimes not. I wonder what it
signifies.

We have samples then of Q4 '49 windscreen glass thanks
to Roger and Terry of xk120 roadsters.

I also have 2 different samples of Q1 '50 logo - they all
are Laminated, with ASWS logo at the top. However, none
of them come from xk120 windscreen (une is on unknown
origin and another of the BD.4294 racing windscreen
glass)
This means we are very much looking for '50 xk120 cars
with original windscreens - anyone out there?..

Charles,

The ASWS and AS1 was only present on windscreens it’s
subject to American National Standard for Safety Glazing
Materials ANSI/SAE Z26.1 (first published in '38)
I am unsure what ASWS means, I guess it meant ‘‘American
Standard for WindScreen’’.
AS meant ‘‘American National Standard’’, 1 signified
windscreen glass.

I am also looking for '51 glass with the dot over ‘‘I’’ or
‘‘P’’, i.e. Q3 or Q4. Somewhere between Q2 '51 and Q1 '52
the US standard designation ASWS has changed to AS1.

And finally I want to thank everyone for their help and
great information provided!

Tadek–
ysmalkie
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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Tadek;
The “Toughened” glass Terry McG was talking about was out of
an XK that retained a 1965 registration plate… this the “65”
reference.
Charles #677556.----- Original Message -----
From: “ysmalkie”

Terry - you mentioned the toughened glass XK120 roadster
is 1965?? You mean '49, am I right?

Tadek

I have posted photos of 2 types of Triplex logos on side window glasses from
XK120DHC’s
These are toughened glass with polished edges


125780/?type=3&theater

I have photographed what I believe are original Triplex logos on 5 different
and what I believe genuine factory pieces of glass One an XK120 roadster
with a 1965 rego label still visible is straight toughened glass the other 4
are all laminated glass Photos can be viewed at


483707/?type=3&theater

XK120FHC 679112 glass Laminated
XK120-140 FHC glass Laminated (1)
XK120-140 FHC glass Laminated (2)
XK120-140 FHC glass Laminated (3)
XK120 roadster glass not laminated registration label is dated 1965—
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Hi Velocette1.
Would you still have the images of the Triplex logo from the windscreen of you '54 120 DHC you could email me.
Regards, Graham
FHC 669181

Hi Tadek:

If memory serves our Aussie friend, Roger, was collecting pictures/data on the Triplex logos a few years back. I recall taking a couple of shots of the logos on my '53 XK120 DHC for him, must be in the archives somewhere. Sorry I cannot recall a specific date. Mine shows L53V on a July built car.

Chris.

lots of pics of Triplex logos here on my Jaguar Archives Facebook page

G’day Chris,
Many thanks for your input to our TRIPLEX project. Actually Tadek was the main driver, and indeed based on all our collective efforts/ inputs, he was able to end up making replica Windscreen Glasses for both his 1952 XK120 and my 1955 XK140 roadsters, with 100% accurate 1952 and 1955 laminated glass Triplex logos, correct artwork for year, exact size, and exact position in corner of windscreen glass. When he visited Australia last year - and attended our All-British Day here in Canberra, he delivered my new/TRIPLEX logoed Windscreens, via checked-in luggage on his long flight here from Europe.

But it was a bigger project than it started out - different markings for Laminated Glass as mostly used on Windscreens, and for Toughened Glass as used on FHC/DHC size and quarter-vent windows, and indeed also on some earlier OTS Windscreens, and indeed as per the heading of this Subject, it varied from year to year, with minor annual change, but also major design changes every couple of years.

Its a challenge getting good quality photographs, that allowed accurate logo stencils to be made - Tadek is now the expert.

Roger

Hi Roger:

Thanks for your note. I am afraid I read Tadek’s request, but failed to note the date! (It’s OK, these ‘senior moments’ are becoming increasingly frequent I’m afraid.) Glad to have helped the cause in albeit a small way and delighted that you got the correct logo and screen for your XK140, hand delivered no less!

Regards,

Chris.

I am sorry, I am on vacation, so less frequent access to e-mail…

I was actually asked to write an article once about Triplex from the Healey crowd which also helped, but never got to finish it.

Here is section of it, which describes the logo:

Logo Design
It’s difficult to say when Triplex introduced the logo. Motorsports Magazine article dated 1932 states: “sheets are branded with the famous three X’s, the trade mark of the firm”. Logos must have been then introduced before 1932.
The first logo sample I have found dated from 1934 is from an MG:
A34 Q2 MG

Here, we take a look at the '50ies logo, which consisted of few distinctive elements:
• US standard designation,
• TRIPLEX brand and XXX logo,
• Date of manufacture,
• Safety glass type,
• Other standard designations,
• BSI Kite logo.
As each of these elements evolved throughout the years, let us take a look at each of them in detail.
American Standard designation which (according to ANSI) should be placed above the logo. This designation was introduced at the beginning of Q2 1948. The letters ASWS or AS were placed above the logo:
ASWS, stands (probably) for “American (National) Standard – Windshield” later changed to AS1
AS – used on side glass at the time when ASWS was used on the windshield
Sometime between Q2 ’52 and Q4 ’52 a change in these designations occurred. (the precise date to be verified). From this time on until today letters AS1 or AS2 were placed above the logo (later anywhere within the logo):
AS1 - glass with at least 70% transmission and can be used anywhere on a vehicle.
AS2 - is used for side glass.
AS1/AS2 Markings are used up to date.

TRIPLEX brand and trademark- the XXX logo. The logo was inscribed in a circle made of 4 arches for laminated glass. Toughened glass logo was without the circle.
The TRIPLEX brand was inscribed on the top of the circle. The Triplex font was the same as all the other letters until the end of 1962. From Q1 ’63 a somewhat thicker and larger font was used, however this is not applicable for the XKs
Glass type was specified at the bottom of the logo: TOUGHENED, PLATE or SUNDYM. Word PLATE was changed to LAMINATED in 1963. SUNDYM was used for dimmed glass.
Year and glass type designation was the next part of the screen marking (until the end of 1964). Year was given in 2 digits, the letters before and after the year dating have the following meaning:
L – Laminated
T – Toughened, heat treated
P – Plate Glass
S – Sheet Glass
V – for vehicle use??, used until ‘64
F – Float Glass, used since ’63 when float glass begun to be available
WF – Front windscreen quality – used since 65
M3 or M6 – Manufacturer codes, describing different models of glass – used since ‘65
French Homologation Designation, used since ’54. It consists of “AGRÉÉ” and the standard designation: TP.GS.6

  • AGRÉÉ meaning certified, authorized, (dots are accents)
    TP.GS. meaning “Transport Publique, Gestion de Securite” – the homologation body) and 6 is the homologation number.
    In ’66 the French homologation designation changed from the two line format to single line and now read: AG TPGS6.
    German approval was introduced in ’67. It was a sine wave followed by letter D and a number. D90 was used on ‘60s Triplex glass.

The so called Kite - registered certification mark of the British Standards Institution:

The ‘Kite’ mark is an arrangement of the letters B, S and I.

Some of the Triple X logos included a dot in the middle. I was unable to trace it’s meaning. An example of such dot, from 1950 XK120 660115 (logo date: '49 Q3):


(Roger, once again, many thanks for the photo!)

They appear throughout the years, like on this MG TD from '53 (logo dating '52, Q4):

A52 Q4 '53 MGTD

Logo Dating
Over the years TRIPLEX has changed the dating format many times. Luckily, we are interested only in a period from ’53 to ’67.
Logo dating consists of year designation and quarter designation:

Year Designation
PLATE glass, from 1950 up to 1964: The year is given in a two digit format, as described above. (Glass prior to 1950 used same dating as TOUGHENED glass.)
TOUGHENED glass throughout the entire period and LAMINATED glass since 1965: Year was coded by a dot under one of the letters in the 9 letter words LAMINATED or TOUGHENED. Dot under the first letter meant ‘51 (or ’61) and so on. No dot meant year ’50 (or ’70).

Quarter designation
The quarter designation is provided by the dots over letters in TRIPLEX. It changed during production of the XK Jaguar:
T =January/February/March
R = April/May/June
I =July/August/September
P= October/November/December
From ‘54 (to ’69) dots over the following letters mean the following manufacture month:
T =January/February/March
R = April/May/June
E =July/August/September
X= October/November/December
It’s fair to say that glass predated the production date of the car by about 3 months – it seems that the logistics and JIT (Just-In-Time) manufacturing was to be yet discovered byTRIPLEX…

The height of the logo also varied depending on the version and year used:

  • 24.5mm – Q1 ’50 – Q4 ‘53
  • 28.5mm – Q1 ’54 – Q2 ‘55
  • 26.5mm – Q3 ’55 – Q4 ‘62

Here is the logo calligraphy:

And samples from:
Q1 1950 (Thanks to Godfrey):
A50 2 Godfrey

First AS ANSI designation I managed to locate, thanks to Peter in Australia (MG TD car):

First French standard designation on a XK120DHC 21 April 1954 (Logo date: '54 Q1),
(thanks to Roger):

Not quite related to XK, but a MK IX Chassis 791670BW, July '59
(thanks to Steve Kennedy)

And one of XK150 from 13.12.1960
(thanks to Robert Davey)

And first e-type I have:
A61 Q2 E-type S1 875343
A61 Q2 E-type S1 875343

Hi Tadek,

Can you remind me how you etched your screens and how you get from the calligraphy to the a mask for etching?

Eric

Hello Eric,

I tried several techniques, including acid etching, silk screen and sand blasting.

I have finally decided on the sand blasting technique, practiced a bit and finally printed my logo.
Logo is laser cut on self-adhesive paper, used normally for address labels.
It’s sand blasted, with an air brush gun with 2 atm at a distance of about 1” at about 45deg angle, fine sand for air brush guns. I slowly brushed it once, then another time quicker. The sand is fine enough not to leave any markings (on the paper), however if you look against the light at an angle you can see the self adhesive paper changes appearance slightly.

Email me PM for the logo file, if you need one.

Tadek

Hi Tadek,

This is great stuff, thanks! And than you all you who have contributed, Roger, Godfrey, Steve, etc.

As some of you are also involved with Saloons and Pre-XK cars etc. can anyone confirm or deny if there Triplex logos were only found on the windscreens (legal requirement?) or also on other laminated or toughened glass and if the other glass then had the logos or not?

Maybe I need to ask on one of the other forums, but the problem is usually there are so few MKV owners on the Saloons forum.

So for instance anyone know for sure if the “rear light” that is the tiny glass found in OTS hoods (fabric tops) and in MKIV DHC’s and MKV DHC’s was toughened or laminated and if it had any logos at all? On my car a PO replaced that piece of glass with perspex.

Also I know my passenger side door glass is not original, but until today I have believed the driver’s side door glass to be original, it is laminated, but it does not have any kind of etched logo anywhere. On the XK’s there obviously was no glass elsewhere until the FHC and DHC came available, but did those early cars have any markings on other glass than the windshield?

My DHC was built on July 14th 1950, so Godfrey’s L50V Q1/1950 logo would be good on my windshield, or I guess it would become Q2 by just moving that dot one step, right?

Cheers,

Pekka T. - 647194
Fin.

the rear window in these hoods which was glass up to the very first of the alloy 120’s does have a logo I will endeavor to find my originals including one from a very early alloy 120. There better with perspex as the glass weighs so much it pulls the hood out of shape. Later 120’s and I would therefore guess later MKV DHC had perspex rear screen?
Changeover point?

Hi Pekka T:

FYI the side glass windows on my 1953 XK120 DHC each show the following in descending order: AS2, Triplex, XXX, Toughened, P, then the triangulated logo. Both windows show the same and the info is located in the top front corner of the glass. The vent, or no draft, windows do not show anything.

Regards,

Chris.

Pekka,

I think all glass produced by Triplex for automotive industry was marked with a logo. However, sometimes the logo is so faint, it’s hardly visible.

Marking it was a legal requirement.

Tadek

Terry,

Any chance you could photograph this logo on the rear xk120 alloy screen??

It would be great to see one…

Tadek

My understanding is SAFETY GLASS was required in UK, to be used on all external glass - as in Windscreen, and side windows and any rear windows from at least the late 1920s/early 1930s, albeit that’s a guess, haven’t actually researched for any associated Regulations/Laws. The attached picture is from the side-window of a Rolls Royce Phantom II - I think a 1932/3 totally original car here in Canberra with its full saloon body on it, with this same logo on all side windows.

PLATE was of course the legal term for the Safety Glass we these days more usually refer to as TOUGHENED Glass, with TRIPLEX initially using word PLATE, but progressively superseding to TOUGHENED in late 1940s/early 1950s.

So those with access to Mark IVs and Mark Vs should be quickly able to see what was likely to be used in XK120s, bearing in mind no side-windows until the FHC in 1951, but there was of course the rear-glass window in OTS hoods, and also the Glass used in the optional XK120 Aero Screens one of which I have pictures of having 1950 dated TRIPLEX PLATE glass.

Here are the Triplex markings for my 1950 Mark V saloon:
Windshield upper left hand corner, readable from the outside
ASWS
Triplex
X X X
PLATE
L49V
heart logo


Door windows, side vent windows and rear window
AS
TRIPLEX
X X X
TOUGHENED
P
heart logo
The marking on the rear window is in the upper left hand corner and readable from the outside.
I imagine a 1950 XK120 OTS rear window would have the same marking.
I did not note placement of the markings on the side windows, but I could if it is important.

That could be most relevant advice.

I will have to check notes, but I am sure Tadek will recall.
But my recollection is the top ASWS or AS refers to the British Standard that was revised around this 1949/50 period, which amongst other things specifies use of PLATE or the superseding TOUGHENED, with some overlap.

See attached pic:-

Rob,

Apart from the L50V versus your L49V is yours otherwise identical?

PS. Its not a ‘heart’ logo, but is officially called a KITE mark being official mark of the BRITISH STANDARDS - note on top the letter ‘B’ on its side, and the letter ‘S’ within…

It was a legal marking requirement of any glass made in accordance with the British Standard - with the TRIPLEX and X X X markings of course the glass manufacturers own branding/logo.

Roger,

ASWS/AS/AS1/AS2 is American Standard designation which (according to ANSI) should be placed above the logo. This designation was introduced at the beginning of Q2 1948. The letters ASWS or AS were placed above the logo:
ASWS, stands (probably) for “American (National) Standard – Windshield” later changed to AS1
AS – used on side glass at the time when ASWS was used on the windshield

Sometime between Q2 ’52 and Q4 ’52 a change in these designations occurred. (the precise date to be verified). From this time on until today letters AS1 or AS2 were placed above the logo (later anywhere within the logo):
AS1 - glass with at least 70% transmission and can be used anywhere on a vehicle.
AS2 - is used for side glass.
AS1/AS2 Markings are used up to date.

All posted above, in my rather long post :slight_smile:

Cheers, Tadek