Greeting,
Can anyone help me with the best type of oil to use in an engine
just rebuilt by VSE in Wales and now I am almost ready to start it
for the first time.
I tried contacting VSE however they are closed for the holidays.
The engine is from my Mark VII M (1956) and I believe it to be a
3.5 L.
Thanks for the help,
Ken–
KCW
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For an engine of old style materials like ours, Ken, regular 30 weight oil
should be fine. Do not drive too long at constant speed! Change after
400-500 miles and go to whatever you like after that.–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.
KCW wrote:
Greeting,
Can anyone help me with the best type of oil to use in an engine
just rebuilt by VSE in Wales and now I am almost ready to start it
for the first time.
I tried contacting VSE however they are closed for the holidays.
The engine is from my Mark VII M (1956) and I believe it to be a
3.5 L.
Thanks for the help,
Ken
Hello Ken,
This is a tricky problem as each rebuilder has their own procedure as they are
the ones that must back any claims should there be a problem with the rebuild.
I depend on my assembly lube to make sure critical lubrication areas; i.e., cam
to tappet lubrication is covered. I prime the entire engine using 3 quarts of
pressurized oil in a “bomb”. The bomb is plumbed to the main oil gallery and air
pressure is used to force 2-1/2 quarts of oil into the engine - this primes the
pump, fills the oil filter housing, moves liquid oil to mains, rods, chains and
cams.
I always start my new engines on 10W30. Two reasons; first, its low viscosity
allows the pump to pick it up from the sump quickly, getting pressurized oil to
the engine almost immediately. Second, the thin mineral oil allows the cylinder
honing pattern to cut the rings quickly, avoiding a long and messy break-in. Run
it a couple of hundred miles and change it and the filter to a more suitable
viscosity such as 20W50, depending upon your weather conditions of course.
Immediately upon starting, confirm oil pressure. If present, immediately run the
engine up to 2000 RPM for 30 seconds. Following a thorough leak and noise check,
avoiding excessive idling, get the car on the road and pressure seat the rings,
keeping the maximum RPM below 2500.
Now you can return to the garage and get the whole thing tuned up and adjusted.
questions re: MkVII are best posted to the ‘saloons’ list …
jaguar recommends Castrol 30wt for the 3.4 ltr …
hope this helps,
junot
Greeting,
Can anyone help me with the best type of oil to use in an engine
just rebuilt by VSE in Wales and now I am almost ready to start it
for the first time.
I tried contacting VSE however they are closed for the holidays.
The engine is from my Mark VII M (1956) and I believe it to be a
3.5 L.
Thanks for the help,
Ken
Ken;
Can add only two things to what Alex & Bob said… Start with one
brand of oil (most folks like Castrol for our old Jags) and stay with it for
the life of the engine…
I have actually seen engines wear out prematurely (under 80,000 miles)
that were correctly maintained with regular oil & filter changes (at 2500
miles) because they used a different brand of oil at every change…
DO NOT use a synthetic during break-in… My personal opinion is, never
use a synthetic anyway… Our fifty year old engines are not built to the
close tolorances the “modern” engines are, synthetic is intended for these
“modern” engines… “Dyno-Juice” will serve you well.
Charles #677556.----- Original Message -----
From: “KCW”
Greeting,
Can anyone help me with the best type of oil to use in an engine
just rebuilt by VSE in Wales and now I am almost ready to start it
for the first time.
I tried contacting VSE however they are closed for the holidays.
The engine is from my Mark VII M (1956) and I believe it to be a
3.5 L.
Junot;
Not trying to put you down, be a wisea$$ or anything, but the MK VIIM
engine is still an XK-Engine… and as I understand this list, it’s for all questions involving the “XK” engines, regardless of what body they are
in.
Charles #677556.----- Original Message -----
From: “junot”
greetings ken …
questions re: MkVII are best posted to the ‘saloons’ list …
jaguar recommends Castrol 30wt for the 3.4 ltr …
hope this helps,
junot
Greeting,
Can anyone help me with the best type of oil to use in an engine
just rebuilt by VSE in Wales and now I am almost ready to start it
for the first time.
I tried contacting VSE however they are closed for the holidays.
The engine is from my Mark VII M (1956) and I believe it to be a
3.5 L.
Thanks for the help,
Ken
Doug D;
No “scientific” evidence, just the observations of a professional
mechanic of a period of many years…
The brand of oil was the only “variable” in the equation… the
vehicles exemplified were owned by friends of mine, not abused, well
maintained, religiously had their oil & filter changed at 2500/3000 mile
intervals, and at 75K+ began to burn oil badly… not just the occassional
“bad valve seals” type of oil burning, either…
One vehicle was an early '70’s Ford Pick-Up, the other was a Chevy of
the same era. Both vehicles were bought new, pampered and driven daily.
I can also add a few other marques to my observations, as I saw the
same thing from vehicles brought in for repairs (when I worked “the line”)
at dealerships… However, I cannot testify to how these cars were driven,
etc. only that various brands of oil was used for their regular changes
(this was in the day when service stations, dealerships, etc. applied “oil
change stickers” to the rear face of the driver’s door).
In addition, the “old line mechanics” who taught me back in the
sixties use to tell me the same thing… Pick a good brand of oil (to use in
a new car or engine) and stay with it for the life of the (vehicle)…
My “personal” experience involved buying a decent running used car, the
first thing I did was to change oil & filter… as I was working in a Conoco
Service Station (while going to college), I used the Conoco brand of oil…
in less than two weeks I had rods knocking… After opening the engine up,
it was evident that changing to a High Detergent oil in an engine that had
only been fed “non-detergent” was a very bad idea!!
Call it “emperical”, disbelieve if you wish…
Charles #677556.
what method or process
was used to determine that the oil caused the problem?
Cheers
Doug Dwyer
//please trim quoted text to context only----- Original Message -----
From: “Doug Dwyer” > Very interesting. And, if you don’t mind my asking,
I give due credence to you observations and empirical knowledge, Charles. It just that my own observations and empirical knowledge makes me want
to disagree.
Also being professional in the car repair industry I have known (and owned!)
many cars with very high mileage, engines still in very good working order
with minimal (sometimes zero) oil consumption…yet they have never
been treated to the same brand of motor oil throughout their lives. I am
disinclined, then, to think that staying with the same brand is a
significant factor.
Besides, look at it this way: Motor oil is always being reformulated. So,
if I bought a new Jag in '84 and used (let’s say) Valvoline oil for the last
20 years, I really doubt that I am using the “same” oil today that I was
using 20 years ago…or even 10 years ago. It has probably changed several
times.
Doug Dwyer
Longview, Washington USA
1987 Ser III XJ6
1988 XJS V12
No "scientific" evidence, just the observations of a
professional
mechanic of a period of many years…
The brand of oil was the only “variable” in the equation…
Doug;
As I noted to an off-list post to a fellow XK-lister, my observations
were of pre-'75 model cars and experiences are with (for the most part)
pre-'70 model engines…
Might the closer tolerances and metallurgy of the “modern” engine have
a factor in all of this?? Quite possibly.
I will agree that oil is “reformulated”, with respect to it’s API
specs, we cannot say, without involved discussions from petroleum engineers,
if the “oil itself” (as opposed to the additives) is “reformulated”… and I
think you will agree that, generally speaking, there was a time when each
major oil company used it’s own “type” of base oil (Pennzoil flaunted it’s
“Pennsylvania Crude”, etc.) and the “mixing” of certain brands of oils often
produced strange, if not sometimes, disastrous results… Could this have
been a factor in the early demise of the engines I observed?? Without a
teardown and qualified failure analysis, we’ll never know… Personally, I’d
rather err on the safe side, while believing my own observations, and stick
with one brand of oil than to risk a supposition on mixing them…
I will stipulate that we agree to disagree…
Charles #677556.----- Original Message -----
From: “Doug Dwyer”
I give due credence to you observations and empirical knowledge, Charles. It just that my own observations and empirical knowledge makes me
want
to disagree.
Also being professional in the car repair industry I have known (and
owned!)
many cars with very high mileage, engines still in very good working order
with minimal (sometimes zero) oil consumption…yet they have never
been treated to the same brand of motor oil throughout their lives. I am
disinclined, then, to think that staying with the same brand is a
significant factor.
Besides, look at it this way: Motor oil is always being reformulated.
So,
if I bought a new Jag in '84 and used (let’s say) Valvoline oil for the
last
20 years, I really doubt that I am using the “same” oil today that I was
using 20 years ago…or even 10 years ago. It has probably changed several
times.
I’ve seen it too, even done it myself. I had a mini a few years ago
that was in need of an oil change. I asked a mechanic what type of oil
I should use on an old unrestored mini. He told me to use brand xyz
because it was a high detergent engine and would keep everything clean
internally.
So I duly changed the oil with the recommended product and within a
couple weeks the old mini engine was completely stuffed. After years of
abuse and only mineral oils with spasmodic changes of oil and filter,
the engine released all the crud that had built up and circulated it
around the engine, resulting in buggered bearings, cylinder walls and an
enormous amount of this carbon like crap in the sump.
He was just the first of a long line of mechanics who didn’t know the
difference between their arses and their ears. That wasn’t the only
time either, I had a mechanic put high detergent oil in my S Type a few
years ago, in spite of me asking him not to. It started to blow smoke
and use oil almost immediately, so I changed the oil and filter again
twice to flush the system completely. The mechanics answer as to why he
had not done what I had asked him was that the brand of oil he used was
“the best you can get” I nearly punched him.
A few months later the 3.4 in my S Type died, I found pieces of shrapnel
at the subsequent oil change, so out it came!
Shane
65 S Type 4.2 MOD
71 XJ6
84 Hess & Eisenhardt XJS ConvertibleDate: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:58:38 -0600
From: “BISHOP-13” bishop-13@texican.net
Subject: Re: [xk-engine] Type of oil to use in newly rebuilt engine
Ken;
Can add only two things to what Alex & Bob said… Start with one
brand of oil (most folks like Castrol for our old Jags) and stay with it
for
the life of the engine…
I have actually seen engines wear out prematurely (under 80,000
miles)
that were correctly maintained with regular oil & filter changes (at
2500
miles) because they used a different brand of oil at every change…
DO NOT use a synthetic during break-in… My personal opinion is,
never
use a synthetic anyway… Our fifty year old engines are not built to
the
close tolorances the “modern” engines are, synthetic is intended for
these
“modern” engines… “Dyno-Juice” will serve you well.
Charles #677556.
I think the main message here is that the Mini should have been torn down
before running with anything new it it, since it had been so mistreated.
Similarly, the S clearly had something bad going on inside before the HD oil
went in.–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.
Shane Jarvis wrote:
I’ve seen it too, even done it myself. I had a mini a few years ago
that was in need of an oil change. I asked a mechanic what type of oil
I should use on an old unrestored mini. He told me to use brand xyz
because it was a high detergent engine and would keep everything clean
internally.
So I duly changed the oil with the recommended product and within a
couple weeks the old mini engine was completely stuffed. After years of
abuse and only mineral oils with spasmodic changes of oil and filter,
the engine released all the crud that had built up and circulated it
around the engine, resulting in buggered bearings, cylinder walls and an
enormous amount of this carbon like crap in the sump.
He was just the first of a long line of mechanics who didn’t know the
difference between their arses and their ears. That wasn’t the only
time either, I had a mechanic put high detergent oil in my S Type a few
years ago, in spite of me asking him not to. It started to blow smoke
and use oil almost immediately, so I changed the oil and filter again
twice to flush the system completely. The mechanics answer as to why he
had not done what I had asked him was that the brand of oil he used was
“the best you can get” I nearly punched him.
A few months later the 3.4 in my S Type died, I found pieces of shrapnel
at the subsequent oil change, so out it came!
In reply to a message from Cannara sent Sat 1 Jan 2005:
My2 cents worth in it too, I have bought many used cars in my days
never knowing what kind of oil they were treated to. and I started
with castrol 20/50, but none of them died or had bearing failure,
now I use synthec oil only 15/50 and they are all fine just
recently I have rebult the engine in my 120, and started out with
wolfs head 20/50, and after 800 miles I am now using synthec 15/50.
I am sure it will last for ever. good oil is good lubricant. In
fact I dont know how I would describe bad oil. I think any big
commercial brand is good oil, can you just hear the gossip ‘‘dont
use so and so oil, its bad,’’ never heard any of it. Some people
might prefer a brand over an other. But in my opinion good oil, is
good oil. Cheers Pajtas–
The original message included these comments:
I think the main message here is that the Mini should have been torn down
before running with anything new it it, since it had been so mistreated.
Similarly, the S clearly had something bad going on inside before the HD oil
went in.
Alex
It just that my own observations and empirical knowledge makes me want