Could these “off” flywheels by ‘off’ a different model Jag??
The SM stated the mark is TDC… While we know of
mistakes in the Parts Catalogues and aftermarket Jaguar
Books, I don’t believe we’ve noted any found mistakes in the
XK120/MKVII Service Manual…
Charles #677556.> In reply to a message from Bruce Wright sent Thu 1 Sep 2016:
just out of view, about 2 teeth ‘‘late’’. Beware.
In reply to a message from cb@risebroadband.net sent Thu 1 Sep 2016:
The 120 Manual states that the bottom timing chain is the
longer of the two…I think there are other goofs.–
Lee140FHC
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from Lee140FHC sent Thu 1 Sep 2016:
Plate P4, section P, page P 15…confuses me…why is the vac
unit where the micro knob should be?? or am I seeing
something?
Nick–
Nick53XK120S
Spokane WA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
Nick;
It’s more like you are NOT seeing something…
Yes, the Vac Advance is connected to the Vernier Adjuster,
but it isn’t… Sorta…
The “Sleeve” with the timing scale does, indeed, move with
increased vacuum… The Vernier “Adjuster” threads into the
same “Sleeve”…
You see that “Bump” about one-third “in” on the right of
the “Sleeve”?? That “bump” connects to the Points Plate
inside the distributor body…
When you do static (idle) timing adjustments, there
is basically no vacuum to move the sleeve, so only the
Vernier does anything, with respect to “pin-pointing”
your timing settings… Once you are driving, the Vacuum
Advance takes over and does it’s job… hopefully rather
effectively!
So, one half of the Sleeve works manually at idle, the other
half of the sleeve works when you are driving… It just so
happens the Vac Advance and the Vernier meet in the
middle ;-}
Charles #677556.----- Original Message -----
From: “Nick53XK120S”
Plate P4, section P, page P 15…confuses me…why is the vac
unit where the micro knob should be?? or am I seeing
something?
Nick53XK120S
Spokane WA, United States
You’re seeing that they drew it backwards.
Mike Eck
New Jersey, USA
'51 XK120 OTS, '62 3.8 MK2 MOD, '72 SIII E-Type 2+2>
Plate P4, section P, page P 15…confuses me…why is the vac
unit where the micro knob should be?? or am I seeing
something?
NickNick53XK120S
Spokane WA, United States
In reply to a message from Mike Eck sent Fri 2 Sep 2016:
Yes, Plate P3 is correct but Plate P4 is of a distributor
that is designed to turn the other way. Probably both these
drawings were obtained from Lucas, and somebody at Lucas
pulled out a drawing intended for one of their other
customers and sent it to Jaguar. The parts are all correct
for 120/140, just in reverse.
Plate B17 shows the TDC arrow marks, which as I said before,
are not themselves actually at top dead center, but they
indicate that the pistons are or should be.
An omission in the Service Manual that seems to have caught
Nick’s DPO is that the Flywheel paragraph on page B36 should
have mentioned about putting the flywheel back on with the
arrow mark in the correct orientation.
Page E21 also neglects to mention the TDC arrow, but tells
us to use the B balance mark and put it at BDC where it will
be in line with marks on the crankshaft inside the oil sump,
which is really helpful for those doing this job without
taking off the sump.–
The original message included these comments:
You’re seeing that they drew it backwards.
–
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from Mike Eck sent Fri 2 Sep 2016:
ahh yes…the mechanical drawing is backwards…the service
manualon engine section, B52 says the vac advance is to the
left.
Ok…so that reverse distrib vac/vernier diagram resolved…at
least my distributor is inserted correctly, not jammed in
off the dogs…
so now…looking at your distributor cap and the wires as
when installed…so looking from normal point of view from
side of car facing side of engine…where ‘‘O-clock’’ is #6
plug wire on the cap…assuming set up as it is supposed to
be…factory orig.(or descibe where #6(front cyl) plug wire
is on the dizzy cap.
This will help me determine if the wire to cap placements
have been ‘‘clocked’’.
Nick–
Nick53XK120S
Spokane WA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from Nick53XK120S sent Sat 3 Sep 2016:
As stated before…either 3 or 6 o’clock…manual doesn’t
mention the orientation of the off-set in the drive dog
slot, it just says the slot is to be parallel with crank
centerline…so…either 3 or 6 o’clock for the #6 plug
wire terminal, though that’s not gonna work on your engine
anyway…–
The original message included these comments:
side of car facing side of engine…where ‘‘O-clock’’ is #6
plug wire on the cap…assuming set up as it is supposed to
be…factory orig.(or descibe where #6(front cyl) plug wire
is on the dizzy cap.
–
Lee140FHC
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from Lee140FHC sent Sat 3 Sep 2016:
thanks Lee…I did see you mentioned those positions before.
But why 3 OR 6…
if the distrib dogs go in one way…and,
if the flywheel mark is at the window mark with #6 cyl (front)
at TDC on compression,…isn’t there one and only one position
for the dizzy rotor to be…and that would be: where the #6
plug wire in the dizzy cap would be?
Nick–
Nick53XK120S
Spokane WA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from Nick53XK120S sent Sat 3 Sep 2016:
OOPS…I said that wrong…I SHOULD have said either 3 or
NINE o’clock…but to your point, it will not matter where
the actual individual plug terminals are ‘‘pointing’’ as long
as you can turn your dizzy at least sixty degrees to make
sure the breaker point cam will open/close the points at
the right time.
The dizzy dog does mesh with it’s drive shaft in only one
way, BUT, the drive shaft itself has TWO correct positions(
due to the offset), both positions being parallel to the
crank. That’s why TWO different clockings can be right.–
The original message included these comments:
if the distrib dogs go in one way…and,
–
Lee140FHC
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from Lee140FHC sent Sat 3 Sep 2016:
ok thanks Lee…got it…just tryin to determine that if
everything was set up by the book as from factory (#6tdc on
comp, flywheel correct and correct to housing mark, dizzy
assembled correctly and installed correctly)…
then where would (not ‘‘could’’) the #6 plug wire at
distributor be
so it it 3 or 9. I would think cars left the factory with
only one position and most are probably still that way.
Nick–
Nick53XK120S
Spokane WA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from Nick53XK120S sent Sat 3 Sep 2016:
It would certainly have made building the engine easier/quicker if
the factory had standardized the clocking of the dizzy drive’s slot
during assembly so the ‘‘dizzy fitting’’ guy could just grab a part
and install it without really having to think about it. But I just
put together my short block and the Manual does not specify
which ‘‘half moon’’ of the dizzy drive shaft should be closest to the
block…doesn’t mean the assembly factory didn’t ‘‘care’’ about this
though.–
Lee140FHC
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from Lee140FHC sent Sat 3 Sep 2016:
so is there any ‘‘concensus’’ here of just where on the dizzy
cap the #6 plug wire/terminal is? A simple diagram would be
nice…gm has such a diagram easily found for most early gm
cars…it leaves no question as to distributor install, dizzy
cap, and wiring/firing order.
anyway…where…y’all chime in please, on the distributor cap
is your #6 plug wire.
Nick–
Nick53XK120S
Spokane WA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
#6 is the first CCW from the micro adj. knob, directly toward the front
of the car - #3 is the one on the other side of the knobOn 9/4/2016 3:00 PM, Nick53XK120S wrote:
In reply to a message from Lee140FHC sent Sat 3 Sep 2016:
so is there any ‘‘concensus’’ here of just where on the dizzy
cap the #6 plug wire/terminal is? A simple diagram would be
nice…gm has such a diagram easily found for most early gm
cars…it leaves no question as to distributor install, dizzy
cap, and wiring/firing order.
anyway…where…y’all chime in please, on the distributor cap
is your #6 plug wire.
NickNick53XK120S
Spokane WA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from Bruce Cunningham sent Sun 4 Sep 2016:
Nick,
Using a volt-ohm meter, I would attach one lead to the
spark plug terminal of the number 6 cylinder (the cylinder
nearest the radiator). Then I would unscrew each spark
plug wire at the distributor cap and use the other lead to
test for continuity.
When you get continuity, mark the distributor cap for the
number 6 cylinder.–
Mike Balch
Iowa, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from Mike Balch sent Sun 4 Sep 2016:
I think if you read page B28 in the Manual, Fit Distributor
and Oil Pump Drive Gear, the reason they don’t say which
side the half moon is on, is that at this point they assume
there is no head fitted, so either way is correct with
respect to crankshaft TDC. They are simply rejecting the 18
other ways to put the drive gear shaft in. Once you put the
head on and time the cams, NOW only one is correct.
Page B30 says to set the crank at TDC with the widest
portion of the distributor drive shaft offset towards the
block. This is the position for setting the cams. Here I see
they finally mention the flywheel arrow and a datum line on
the block flange. Good, I knew it had to be in here
somewhere. They repeat it on pages B31 and B32. On B32 they
say the rotor arm should now be pointing forward, and this
should be the firing position for #6 plug.
So this assumes you haven’t disassembled the distributor and
put the rotor cam back in 180 degrees off. Page P14 says to
put the automatic timing parts back in their original
positions, but does not say what those positions were, if
you failed to carefully note them.
RTM.–
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from Bruce Cunningham sent Sun 4 Sep 2016:
thanks Bruce…that is kinda sorta what I am looking for…
(will go look to see how that looks in real life) when you
say #6 wire term on distributor is toward car front…??
(Mike…where is YOUR #6 plug wire on the dizzy …is it same
as Bruce sez…?..it is not that I do not know where mine
is…I do: …car is running fine…I am just trying to
determine if placement of mine is different from the normal,
usual, other xks…due to other factors.) so next nice day I
will roll the car slowly fwd in 4th, all plugs out…and
count flywheel teeth, measure and note the pistons
positions, and rotor to my known firing positions…and kinda
figure out what my set up is.
so anyone that has time to take a look…and see where your
#6 cyl plug wire comes into the distrib cap…let me know.
thanks
Nick–
The original message included these comments:
#6 is the first CCW from the micro adj. knob, directly toward the front
of the car - #3 is the one on the other side of the knob
–
Nick53XK120S
Spokane WA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from Nick53XK120S sent Sun 4 Sep 2016:
Looking straight across the right wing towards the left
wing, with the distributor directly below, number 6 would
be at 5 o’clock.–
The original message included these comments:
so anyone that has time to take a look…and see where your
#6 cyl plug wire comes into the distrib cap…let me know.
–
Mike Balch
Iowa, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1246007697 photo #8
Regards, Otto-----Original Message-----
From: Lee140FHC <lspr@att.net>
To: xk <xk@jag-lovers.org>
Sent: Sat, Sep 3, 2016 6:26 pm
Subject: RE: [xk] flywheel TDC mark relative to #6 piston question
In reply to a message from Nick53XK120S sent Sat 3 Sep 2016:
OOPS…I said that wrong…I SHOULD have said either 3 or
NINE o'clock…but to your point, it will not matter where
the actual individual plug terminals are ''pointing'' as long
as you can turn your dizzy at least sixty degrees to make
sure the breaker point cam will open/close the points at
the right time.
The original message included these comments:
> if the distrib dogs go in one way…and,
–
Lee140FHC
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from Otto sent Mon 5 Sep 2016:
thanks Otto,nice photos…I notice the text for the distributor
photo says rotor is to #1 ready to fire…? not six?
wondering…
Nick–
Nick53XK120S
Spokane WA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –