In reply to a message from F Ronald Rader sent Mon 7 Sep 2015:
Hi Roger,
first of all, again thanks for your news and your very
detailed knowledge.
Yes, it is a 140 with disc wheel, and shurly the rims are
not mixed. That is also the reason, why I did not reply the
question concerning the spoke wheels. I simply don’t know
too much about it.
I never thought, that it would be possible to change tire
size, because at all our old cars we always use the original
size, though it is sometimes difficult to get some of them.
Only after having read the threads in this forum I asked
first my tire-dealer, who is a collector himself and then
the german T�V-egineer.
What I am noticing here in Germany is, that many owners,
especially of the OTS, use obviously very wide spoke wheels.
Most XK120, which I see, have nearly no space between the
rear fender an the outside of the wheel, even when (what is
also mostly so) 6.00 tires are fitted. I think, there must
be a certain offset and/or rims wider than 6’’.
In reply to a message from F Ronald Rader sent Mon 7 Sep 2015:
What have I unleashed when starting this thread…
Let me rephrase my question and what I want to
achieve/don’t want to achieve.
What I want:
Modern high quality tire with modern tread for disc/steel
rims.
Improved handling and comfort for normal daily use, not for
trackday use.
As wide as possible WITHOUT loosing my spats or neglecting
safety (eg too wide tires not compatible with rim size).
What I DONT want:
Chinese/poor quality tires.
Replace my disc wheels for wire wheels.
neglecting safety.
Modern tire with ‘‘oldtimer/original’’ looking tread pattern
(like vredestein classic sprint etc).
I do not care about original ‘‘look’’ of the tires. I’ve had
quite a few classic cars, and in my experience they perform
better with modern high quality tires with a modern tread
compared to modern tires made specific for oldtimers (like
the vredestein classic) with ‘‘classic’’ tread.
Maybe its different for the xk120 but then I will learn.
I suppose correct size getting closest to original size
would be 195/80-R16 or 195/80-16? Unfortunately these sizes
are only available for vans/trucks in Europe and believe
the Bridgestone Ecopia 195/80-R16 is not sold outside US
(at least not in Europe)so for now I will keep my
Vredestein classic…
In reply to a message from Per Lemser sent Tue 8 Sep 2015:
…but really would have liked to go with the Bridgestone
Ecopia 195/80-R16, they looks just right…–
Per Lemser
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I find the discussion on wheels and tyres quite interesting, and have
learned quite a bit. (I’m running Cokers on original disc rims with spats
and have had no issues to date - previous owner had put on tyres that were
way too wide and had, judging by the shape of one of the spats, had
encountered an issue).
I did have a question on hub caps (nave plates?) as someone had brought up
the fact that the currently available hub caps are 1/2" deeper than the
originals. I was just about to purchase some new ones from one of the
usuals as re-chroming the originals here in the wilds of the Canadian
prairies is an extremely expensive proposition (nearest chromer seems to be
about 500 miles away and comes with mixed reviews).
Is anyone running the newer hub caps with spats, and are there any problems
with the extra depth?
In reply to a message from Bob sent Tue 8 Sep 2015:
I got repro hubcaps and spats on my XK120, no problem, its
room for a finger between the spat and hubcap.–
The original message included these comments:
Is anyone running the newer hub caps with spats, and are there any problems
with the extra depth?
If you are going to post your originals, then whether 500 miles or a 1000
miles, it makes no difference, so my advice is to find a good chrome-plater
and post to them accordingly.
We have a problem with environmental restrictions on Cadmium Plating - and
there are is no longer anyone on the East coast (Melbourne, Canberra,
Sydney, Brisbane side) that does Cad Plating, so I was seriously looking at
posting parts to USA for Cadmium Plating. Then I found a place in Perth
that still does Cadmium Plating with no similar environmental rules in
Western Australia, so I now post boxes of parts to Perth to get my Cadmium
Plating done - distance not an issue, as they do a great job.
No harder than ordering new repro Nave Plates, and with originals, no other
secondary problems to address.
Roger Payne
XK140MC OTS; 4.2E OTS; DaimlerSV8
Canberra, Australia
I find the discussion on wheels and tyres quite interesting, and have
learned quite a bit. (I’m running Cokers on original disc rims with spats
and have had no issues to date - previous owner had put on tyres that were
way too wide and had, judging by the shape of one of the spats, had
encountered an issue).
I did have a question on hub caps (nave plates?) as someone had brought up
the fact that the currently available hub caps are 1/2" deeper than the
originals. I was just about to purchase some new ones from one of the
usuals as re-chroming the originals here in the wilds of the Canadian
prairies is an extremely expensive proposition (nearest chromer seems to be
about 500 miles away and comes with mixed reviews).
Is anyone running the newer hub caps with spats, and are there any problems
with the extra depth?
Rick Holland and I are both using Goodyear Eagle LS2 in the 205/70R16 size.
They are a slight bit larger in diameter which makes the spare a tight
squeeze but they handle well and the price is right. That said, I expect to
go with the Ecopia’s next time if they are still available.
And “fit under spats” part of the original question (for those of us so equipped)…?
Thanks,
The Jag Maven (Gary)> On Sep 8, 2015, at 5:22 PM, Mike Eck <mikeeck@optonline.net> wrote:
Rick Holland and I are both using Goodyear Eagle LS2 in the 205/70R16 size.
They are a slight bit larger in diameter which makes the spare a tight
squeeze but they handle well and the price is right. That said, I expect to
go with the Ecopia’s next time if they are still available.
Mike Eck
New Jersey, USA www.jaguarclock.com
'51 XK120 OTS, '62 3.8 MK2 MOD, '72 SIII E-Type 2+2
Ed N;
Yes, the 120’s had painted nave plates… The design is such, if
you look at a nave plate, that once painted, the unpainted part
looks like a “Knock-Off”… go figure.
Charles #677556.
http://xktx.org----- Original Message -----
From: “Ed Nantes”
Am I mistaken , or didn’t some hub caps have chrome centre and
edge but pianted body colour in between.
Certainly some MK VIIs so I presume the same applied to XKs.
XK120 and early XK140 hub-caps were indeed painted body-colour in the centre
section, but over the top of the fully chromed hub-cap, so for a good result
you do need a decent etch primer on the chrome area to be painted.
Later XK140 and the few XK150 with disc-wheels/hub-caps - were all chrome,
no paint.
Roger Payne
XK140MC OTS; 4.2E OTS; DaimlerSV8
Canberra, Australia
In reply to a message from Roger Payne sent Sun 6 Sep 2015:
Roger
an excellent summation .
I was at Antique Tyres a while ago and asked his thoughts on
people putting radials on beam axles and them claiming the
handlng was much improved.
He said people putting them on come in because their old tyres
are worn / hard , whatever and just the fact that replacements
are new in itslef will make an improvement.
It’s a bit like when I talked to a well know Melbourne
guitarist about effects pedals. He said the best way to improve
the sound of our guitar is just put new strings on.–
Ed Nantes SS
Melbourne, Australia
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In reply to a message from Bob sent Tue 8 Sep 2015:
Hi Bob:
I purchased two reproduction nave plates from S.N.G. Barratt in
the U.S., part #3243, in 2007. I left the originals on the
front and mounted the repros on the rear. My car is a 1953 DHC
with steel wheels and spats. I just measured the depth of each
plate and found the originals are 2’’ and the reproduction items
are 2 1/4’'. I also run Coker Classic 600R16’s and have for the
past ten years and have not experienced any clearance issues.
I have noticed that the gap on the LR is greater than that on
the RR (a finger width between nave plate and spat on the RR,
more on the LR). This difference has been commented on by
others. Not sure if the car came that way or whether the body
has perhaps shifted slightly on it’s mounts over time.
I can echo the positive comments with regard to the Cokers and
will probably replace with the same as they certainly look
period. When I originally purchased them I seem to recall that
their speed rating was only good for about 94 m.p.h., however,
if I am clocked by the police at that velocity they will
impound the car so I am not concerned that the rating may be
somewhat below the car’s potential!
Best regards,
Chris.–
The original message included these comments:
Is anyone running the newer hub caps with spats, and are there any problems
with the extra depth?
In reply to a message from Bob sent Tue 8 Sep 2015:
If your XK120 or XK140 is equipped with spats, here’s a
simple clearance test. Place a jack under the frame near
the rear wheels and lift the car until the center of the
hubcap is at the same level as the folded lower lip of the
spat. Now place a finger into the space between the center
of the hubcap and the folded lower lip if the spat. Do the
same on the other side of the car.
It’s concerning how little clearance there is on one or both
sides of the car. If the car is driven aggressively
creating a lot of body roll in a turn, it is my belief that
lateral axle movement will force the center of the hubcap
against the folded lower lip of the spat pushing the spat
off the car in some circumstances.
My own XK120 lost its original spats decades ago before
there was any difficulty obtaining original spec (skinny)
tires. That previous owner replaced the spats with a pair
from another XK120 (spats are stamped with four digits of
the XK chassis number). He then incorporated a home-fix
attempting to lock the spats on the pins welded to the
fenders. He also also retrofitted all the wheels from 5.5
inch to 5 inch to provide additional clearance. All of this
was done in the 1960s, so I think it is important not to
assume that the problem of flying spats is attributable only
or mostly to wider tires.
A friend has owned a 40,000 mile XK140 DHC since 1968. The
car has five 600 X 16 Michelin tires that were on the car in
1968 - and might possibly be original from new. He
complained that the spats were loose and rattled and asked
if I could adjust them. I removed the spats and found that
they were bowed outwards at the folded bottom lip of the
spat. It was obvious there had been contact with the center
of the hubcaps, although not enough pressure had ever been
applied against the spats to break them free. The XK140
still had its original narrow profile hubcaps. If the wider
profile later hubcaps had been installed, that might have
been enough to fully dislodge the spats.
So my advice is not to use the later hubcaps which extend
1/2 inch closer towards the spat. The original narrow
profile hubcaps are no longer being produced, and restoring
those original hubcaps is quite expensive. In the U.S.A.
the cost of quality chrome plate seems to be about $150-$200
per hubcap. Considering all these factors, and the fact
that the hubcaps are mostly invisible once the spat is
installed, I have discontinued installing hubcaps under the
spats for normal use. If I were exhibiting the XK120 at a
car show, then I would probably install the rear hubcaps for
that occasion.–
The original message included these comments:
Is anyone running the newer hub caps with spats, and are there any problems
with the extra depth?
In reply to a message from Ed Nantes sent Wed 9 Sep 2015:
I will still claim that modern tires are an improvements to
50 years old tire technology. But anyway, there is no
accounting for taste…–
Per Lemser
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In reply to a message from Per Lemser sent Wed 9 Sep 2015:
Of course you are correct , But a tyre is not a stand alone
item. It is only one in train of others including wheels ,
suspension, brakes etc.
And even buying original size tyres now does not mean modern
technology is not involved.
Tyres made currently in an original mould would still
incorporate modern materials. Tyre compounds have a large
effect on the tyre’s performance.
The characteristics that a current older car owner would find
useful are not necessarily those an original would have
selected.
Years ago, my father who was chief testing officer at Olympic
Tyres unearthed the original moulds for the Balloon 550x 18
tyres.
As I had a car that could use some, he arranged for a run to
be done. But in a modern soft compound.
They wore quickly but had great grip especially in the wet.
Where-as an original owner would run the tyres till they were
worn out [ and often more] Now that tyres have a use by date,
wear is not critical but better grip is. We now are at the
situation where often tyres are being changed/ removed /
scrapped with plenty of wear left, but past the use by.–
The original message included these comments:
I will still claim that modern tires are an improvements to
50 years old tire technology. But anyway, there is no
accounting for taste…
In reply to a message from Ed Nantes sent Wed 9 Sep 2015:
I never run on old tires, only ‘‘fresh’’ ones.
Despite all the good advices I would still like to replace
to modern types if I can find a tire that will fit the car
with spats installed :-)–
Per Lemser
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In reply to a message from Per Lemser sent Thu 10 Sep 2015:
So my question was not wetter or not to use ‘‘classic’’ tires
with ‘‘classic’’ tread, but what modern tires with modern
treat will fit car/disc rims with spats installed without
compromising safety, but I believe this question has
already been answered (195/80-16 which are unfortunately
not available in Europe).–
Per Lemser
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In reply to a message from Per Lemser sent Thu 10 Sep 2015:
I never run on old tires, only ‘‘fresh’’ ones, so I agree
this is important, just like brakes, suspension
(spring/shocks/bushes etc), no matter what car type.–
Per Lemser
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