[xk] oil question

XK
1

This will be a simple question for most, if not all of you. How do you tell
if a can of oil is detergent, or non-detergent?

As far as being an old, classic engine, I’ll bet my rebuilt, rebored,
freshly honed, and polished 140 engine doesn’t have a surface in it, older
than a few months. What, exactly, are the classic parts that need all the
oily zink? The highly respected VW shop that rebuilt my 1970’s, off road
racing engine, said to use 20-50 synthetic Castrol and the best filter
around. After 39 years, I’m sure there isn’t one original part remaining in
it. Would it be considered a “classic”? The principal is the same for old
and new engines. Even jet engines.; suck, squeeze, burn, pop, blow. What
make an engine fall into one catagory or the other? Thanks in advance.

Aloha, Rob

2

Rob C;
“High Detergent” oil will have an “HD” somewhere on the top (if a can) or
on the lable. I use to think the “HD” meant “Heavy Duty”, but it doesn’t…
The parts of ANY engine that need the ZDDP are those where
“metal-to-metal shear contact” is made… Like the cam lobe and tappet
bucket in the XK Head. The Distributor drive gear has shear, as well as the
chains and sprockets for the cam timing set-up, and it doesn’t hurt to have
the extra protection of ZDDP in places like the Wrist Pin and Rod Small End,
even tho there is a brass bushing there. The piston to cylinder wall can
create some shear, more at higher rpms.
I would NOT use a synthetic in a pre-emission engine during “Break-in”…
To much “slick snot” additives to allow proper bedding in. Use good ol’
Castrol 20w50 with one bottle of ZDDP (from Eastwood or Moss) per every five
quarts of oil in the sump. Personally, I would continue this Castrol/ZDDP
for every 2500 mile or three month oil change. If you don’t drive the car
(a 2000 mile a year car), you will not notice and reduction in wear but cold
(drain-down) starts are going to cause more wear damage than logging 20K
miles a year… However, if you actually “drive the car” like it was
intended, then the “service life” of the engine will be extended compared to
a engine driven the same miles without the ZDDP. For most of us, we will
not live to see the next engine rebuild, but it would be nice to give the
kids or grandkids a car that the engine is not worn-out and burning a quart
every three hundred miles.
On the “39 years old” original parts issue, unless you had a new crank cut
out of billet or cast, you still have an original part or two… even after a
total, complete rebuild. Even the pistons, valves, guides, etc… unless
“custom made”, were probably “NOS”… Hardly new, just not used… they
deserve the same “TLC” as would any original parts.
On the “Would it be considered a “classic”?”… Of course it would… It
didn’t just come off the factory assembly line, did it? I doubt it did…
The block, crank, head, possibly cams, dist shaft, etc. ARE thirty-nine
years old! You are older than Orville’s “flexi-flyer”, aren’t you a
“classic”? (I just won’t say a “classic what” ;-} )
Charles #677556.----- Original Message -----
From: “rob caveney”

This will be a simple question for most, if not all of you. How do you
tell
if a can of oil is detergent, or non-detergent?

As far as being an old, classic engine, I’ll bet my rebuilt, rebored,
freshly honed, and polished 140 engine doesn’t have a surface in it, older
than a few months. What, exactly, are the classic parts that need all the
oily zink? The highly respected VW shop that rebuilt my 1970’s, off road
racing engine, said to use 20-50 synthetic Castrol and the best filter
around. After 39 years, I’m sure there isn’t one original part remaining
in
it. Would it be considered a “classic”? The principal is the same for old
and new engines. Even jet engines.; suck, squeeze, burn, pop, blow. What
make an engine fall into one catagory or the other? Thanks in advance.

Aloha, Rob

3

In reply to a message from BISHOP13 sent Sun 15 Mar 2009:

Hi there,

When pressed hard (almost always when I drive it! :wink: my
E-type burns 1 quart per 300 miles. I thought it is normal
since it’s been like that since I got it (and got it running).

Although I have a feeling 1/3 of that comes out the crank
rear seal when it gets hot! I need to fix that.

I’ve had 31.000 fun miles with it and driving continuously
at 137mph is fine, but I need to add 1 quart every time I
fuel her up, especially if I’ve been on the Autobahn or
driving on curvy mountain roads etc.

Do you mean that your XK’s don’t burn oil if they are taken
to/above 4000rpm with every gear? I thought that’s what
these cars are made for. :slight_smile:

Cheers,
Pekka T.–
The original message included these comments:

miles a year… However, if you actually ‘‘drive the car’’ like it was
intended, then the ‘‘service life’’ of the engine will be extended compared to
a engine driven the same miles without the ZDDP. For most of us, we will
not live to see the next engine rebuild, but it would be nice to give the
kids or grandkids a car that the engine is not worn-out and burning a quart
every three hundred miles.
Charles #677556.

–
MKV 3.5L DHC, E-type 2+2 Ser.1 MOD, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –

4

Pekka;
Unless you are leaving “contrails” of smoke behind you, your Jag is NOT
burning a quart of oil every three hundred miles… It may very well be, as
you suggest, “throwing” it out… especially at the higher RPM levels… You
would be surprised how much oil can get past the flimsy paper cam cover
gasket…
I just bought a set of ‘Cometic’ Cam Cover Gaskets to, hopefully,
eliminate leaking from this location. It always aggravated me when I raised
the bonnet and saw the sparkplug “wells” filled with oil! (these gaskets are
a thin strip of aluminum with a rubberized coating. The idea is they retain
their shape AND seal).
That said, it is NOT normal for any engine, Jaguar’s included, to “lose”,
either by burning or leaking, a quart of oil in less than 1000 miles! Even
a “quart per thousand” would be reserved for a “high mileage” engine (70K+)
For those interested, Cometic can be found at: www.cometic.com. When I
was looking on their website, th Cam Cover Gaskets were not listed… I
contacted Eli Anthony, Tech Sales, and ordered one (set) of C4370 “trim end
to fit” 2pk… Not cheap at $42.42USD, plus shipping…
Cometic makes an entire set of Jag Engine gaskets… NAYYY.
Charles #677556.----- Original Message -----
From: “ptelivuo”

When pressed hard (almost always when I drive it! :wink: my
E-type burns 1 quart per 300 miles. I thought it is normal
since it’s been like that since I got it (and got it running).

Although I have a feeling 1/3 of that comes out the crank
rear seal when it gets hot! I need to fix that.

I’ve had 31.000 fun miles with it and driving continuously
at 137mph is fine, but I need to add 1 quart every time I
fuel her up, especially if I’ve been on the Autobahn or
driving on curvy mountain roads etc.

Do you mean that your XK’s don’t burn oil if they are taken
to/above 4000rpm with every gear? I thought that’s what
these cars are made for. :slight_smile:

Cheers,
Pekka T.

5

Happy Monday to you all!
Charles covered it pretty well, I think.
I have run 15W-50 synthetic for decades now in my VW Beetle and in everything else I own, with the exception of the Model T, AFTER an appropriate break in period. The “T” would have problems with getting the grip it needs from the transmission bands with synthetic, as it runs the same oil in engine and tranny.
The Beetle runs only for a few weeks during the summer when I visit Scandinavia, and it does not get the oil changed every year, and it seems to do just fine. The Beetle engin was designed several yers before the XK engine, and it does not even have an oil filter.
It is not a scientific measurement, but my perception is that every time I have switched to synthetic, my oil consumption has improved.
The E. P. additives (ZDDP) protect the high contact stress sliding surfaces, which first and foremost include the cam to tappet interface and the rings to bore wall. Many years ago, when killing whales was not so not P. C., we used to add some amount of sperm oil to the oil fill at the factory for high performance engines for break in.
The only caveat in running detergent oil in an old engine, as far as I know, would be in its ability to loosen up many years of accumulated sludge and deposits, which could plug up small passages.
In a clean engine it would help keep what forms the sludge and deposits in suspension, which helps to carry it to the filter and lets it drain out with the oil at oil change time.
When I get 672229 running, with a freshly rebuilt engine, I will run a good grade of detergent oil for break in, with added ZDDP, now that Charles told me where to get some, and later I plan to switch to synthetic and perhaps keep adding some ZDDP.
I am not quite sure about the need for the added ZDDP after break in (running in for some of you) based on my experience with the Beetle.
There is some historic data indicating that there were problems with early fatigue on chilled iron cam lobes and tappets when ZDDP was first introduced in engine oils, which caused a massive switch to hardenable iron cams in the U. S. Now, with mostly roller cam followers, the switch has been to nodular iron.
Roar,

----- Original Message ----

From: rob caveney robcaveney@hawaii.rr.com
To: XK lovers group xk-digest@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:47:10 PM
Subject: [xk] oil question

This will be a simple question for most, if not all of you. How do you tell if a
can of oil is detergent, or non-detergent?

As far as being an old, classic engine, I’ll bet my rebuilt, rebored, freshly
honed, and polished 140 engine doesn’t have a surface in it, older than a few
months. What, exactly, are the classic parts that need all the oily zink? The
highly respected VW shop that rebuilt my 1970’s, off road racing engine, said to
use 20-50 synthetic Castrol and the best filter around. After 39 years, I’m sure
there isn’t one original part remaining in it. Would it be considered a
“classic”? The principal is the same for old and new engines. Even jet engines.;
suck, squeeze, burn, pop, blow. What make an engine fall into one catagory or
the other? Thanks in advance.

Aloha, Rob