[xk] photo of XK120 horn button

Hi folks: Anyone out there with the horn button removed from their cars
willing to take a photo for me? I am getting my 120 fhc Hurricane Katrina flood
car back on the road, and the horn button will not stay stationary vis a vis
the steering wheel. It spins with the steering wheel, which is of course
bad on the wiring going down through the column. Apparently there is a “key”
on the end of the central tube of the button that engages a recess somewhere
down inside the column. My key is mangled or missing, thus the whole assembly
turns. I need a good photo of the end of the center tube showing the
shape/size/location of the “key”. I suspect it is just a tab extending out from
the end of the tube, but I need a photo to confirm. I suspect that Charles has
his out of his car, but I hate to bug him all the time. Any help will be
greatly appreciated. Other than that, my car is ready to roll. It will be
needing new paint, but that can wait for down the road.
By the way, this car has the leather “belt” going over the middle of the
bonnet. While I have not had this car out much, I would imagine that the belt
gets more comments (favorable) than any other aspect of the car. Now, I
wouldn’t drill four holes in the wings to put one of those straps on a car, and I
whole heartedly agree with Roger on this point, it sure does add to the
overall look of the car-- making it look like it is going fast when it is sitting
still. The bonnet also has four rows of louvers too, which I think are
very attractive and highly functional. But, don’t know that I would press them
into an otherwise pristine bonnet.
Regards, Bob McAnelly

Bob Mc;
Your timing could not have been more perfect… earlier this
evening I dragged in my old wire harnesses and the new one to “compare”
(mostly figure out which loom is which) so the Manette Control was in the
box, as well.
I’ve sent a pic to you, off-list… My unit is still assembled, but
the area I took the pic of shows the most “common” problem with the horn
push spinning…
Charles #677556� 2006.----- Original Message -----
From: <Jagdad

Hi folks: Anyone out there with the horn button removed from their cars
willing to take a photo for me? I am getting my 120 fhc Hurricane
Katrina flood
car back on the road, and the horn button will not stay stationary vis a
vis
the steering wheel. It spins with the steering wheel, which is of course
bad on the wiring going down through the column. Apparently there is a
“key”
on the end of the central tube of the button that engages a recess
somewhere
down inside the column. My key is mangled or missing, thus the whole
assembly
turns. I need a good photo of the end of the center tube showing the
shape/size/location of the “key”. I suspect it is just a tab extending
out from
the end of the tube, but I need a photo to confirm. I suspect that
Charles has
his out of his car, but I hate to bug him all the time. Any help will be
greatly appreciated. Other than that, my car is ready to roll. It will
be
needing new paint, but that can wait for down the road.

In reply to a message from Jagdad11@aol.com sent Mon 13 Mar 2006:

Bob,
The stator tube on the manette has 'bumps’pressed into it ,
sticking outwards which engage in a slot in the long tube down the
steering column.
The long tube has the slot cut with square corners which looks
like it was done, for convenience, with those cutters that resemble
a small circular saw.
I have found a number that have cracked from the corners of this
slot. [ a bit like de Havilland Comets crashing till they rounded
the corners of the windows]
And this allows the tube to spread and not retain the manette
assembly.

The tube is a bit fine and because one fits neatly in the other,
not good to weld.

I have usually been able to source new tube , or re-use old Mk7
tubes by shortening them. and cutting the new slot with a slot
drill which gives a round end to the slot.
And not a weak point to fracture from.
So far.–
Ed Nantes SS
Melbourne, Australia
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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In reply to a message from Jagdad11@aol.com sent Mon 13 Mar 2006:

Bob,
The stator tube on the manette has 'bumps’pressed into it ,
sticking outwards which engage in a slot in the long tube down the
steering column.
The long tube has the slot cut with square corners which looks
like it was done, for convenience, with those cutters that resemble
a small circular saw.
I have found a number that have cracked from the corners of this
slot. [ a bit like de Havilland Comets crashing till they rounded
the corners of the windows]
And this allows the tube to spread and not retain the manette
assembly.

The tube is a bit fine and because one fits neatly in the other,
not good to weld.

I have usually been able to source new tube , or re-use old Mk7
tubes by shortening them. and cutting the new slot with a slot
drill which gives a round end to the slot.
And not a weak point to fracture from.
So far.–
Ed Nantes SS
Melbourne, Australia
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

Hi Ed: Thanks for the suggestions and explanation. But, my BIG proplem is
that I have a 120 fhc. I CANNOT remove the long tube without taking out the
rear window of the car. Not as bit a deal on an open car or a MK7, as you have
all of that rear seat. All I can think to do is to try to patch the tube,
using a larger piece of tubing as a nipple. I will let you know how things turn
out. Regards, Bob McAnelly

Bob,
One more thing: Is there a possibility that those two little grubscrews
that go through the steering wheel hub to retain the manette control have
locked onto the inner ring of the manette assembly and are forcing it to
turn with the steering wheel? I have not installed my own manette yet,
being in the process of refinishing my steering wheel, but I notice that
there is a nick on the edge of the manette inner ring that I will have to
file off so that the whole assembly will not snag on one of the grubscrews,
get caught up and turn with the wheel.
Greg Bernier>From: Jagdad11@aol.com

Reply-To: xk@jag-lovers.org

Hi Ed: Thanks for the suggestions and explanation. But, my BIG proplem is
that I have a 120 fhc. I CANNOT remove the long tube without taking out
the
rear window of the car. Not as bit a deal on an open car or a MK7, as you
have
all of that rear seat. All I can think to do is to try to patch the tube,
using a larger piece of tubing as a nipple. I will let you know how
things turn
out. Regards, Bob McAnelly

Hi Greg: No, you need for those grub screws to grab the steel disc of the
horn assembly. That disc needs to rotate with the steering wheel to work the
cancel feature. That disc needs to turn independently of the horn and chrome
switch; however. Mine was rather tight, and I cleaned and oiled it so it
works nicely. I (along with some help from this list) have discovered what
makes this thing work.
There is the short (10") of so tube sticking out of the horn button,
with four wires poking out. If you look VERY carefully on the end of the tube,
you will see a line of four small depressions. On the inside of the tube are
four little dimples. Now, there is another tube down inside the steering
column. It is held in place by a clamp on the front end of the steering box.
When you stick your horn button on the wheel, the four wires feed down into
this long tube and out the bottom end, then up the fender, etc. What keeps
the horn button from turning is a slot cut into the long tube. The line of
four dimples slips into that slot, and, if the dimples have not been worn off,
or the slot enlarged in some manner, the horn button should stay put. On my
car, the top four inches of the longer tube broke off inside the short tube.
I have extracted the short section and will try to put a patch on it in the
form of a copper plumbing nipple to hold the longer tube into one piece. I
cannot replace the long tube as I have a fhc-- the long tube is longer than
the distance from the steering wheel to the rear glass-- and I don’t want to
remove the rear glass or the body to get it out. It won’t go our the front of
the car either, as the fender is in the way. Nice to have an open car at
times like this.
I doubt that ANYONE out there will run into the same problem as me, with
a broken tube. But you might very well have a horn button that will not
stay fixed in place. If you do, the little dimples have either worn off or the
slit has somehow gotten larger. If that is the case, then pull the horn
button, loosen the clamp at the steering box, push the protruding end of the tube
up into the steering column, then use a screwdriver to push it in another
six inches or so. You should now be able to grab the top end of the tube and
pull it out.
Regards, Bob McAnelly

In reply to a message from Jagdad11@aol.com sent Wed 15 Mar 2006:

I agree that if the little dimples are shot or the stator cracked
it could be your problem, but check this first.
I’m not familiar with exactly how the 120 tube is installed, but I
have had manettes turn in my AC and on TR3’s with similar
arrangements.
On those, the end of the stator tube exits the column at the bottom
of the steering box and has a compression fitting on the end, not
unlike a common 3/8’’ tubing fitting. Once tightened, this keeps the
stator tube and the entire manette assy. from turning, and the lube
from leaking out.-- One tip here.-- If you do have this type and
have to replace the ferrule, split it first by making a cut through
it lengthwise. You can then compress it onto the tube, and if you
ever have to remove it, it will come off again. a little gasket goo
in the cut will work if you’re worried about leaks.

As far as the 120 goes, Urs book , page 142 ill. 1, item G shows
a ‘‘stator tube clip’’ that appears to serve the same purpose. It is
a clamp type thingy on the bottom of the steering box. If it’s not
holding the stator tube firmly, the assy. will turn. Check that
yours is tight.
Hope this does it,
Rich–
rich neary
perrineville/new jersey, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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Hi Rich: My problem was that the long stator tube (the one inside the
steering column and pinched by the clamp at the steering box) broke off about four
inches from the top. The top part of the tube (with the slit cut in it)
broke off at the end of the slit. Thus, there was nothing to keep the horn
button from spinning along with the steering wheel. The long stator was indeed
clamped tightly at the bottom end.
My fix was to extract the remaining part of the long tube out of the
steering column (I could not remove it completely, as mine is a fhc and I did
not want to remove the rear window). I cleaned it well, along with the 4" stub
piece, then made a nipple out of brass tubing. I put JB Weld on the two
pieces of stator, slipped them each into the brass tube, and waited for it to
harden. When it all held, I put it all back together, including reclamping the
stator at the end of the steering box. Now works fine. Will drive it
tomorrow to make sure the horn button stays put and does not rotate. While I know
I could twist it with some considerable force, the same could be done with
an original installation.
However, until some on this list told me that the long stator tube even
existed and that it was clamped at the bottom end, I had no idea as to what
my problem was. Knock on wood, I think it is now fixed.
Regards, Bob McAnelly

Bob,
I agree that the self-canceling disc must rotate with the wheel, and that
the grubscrews are there to hold the two in place. My previous contradictory
statement was a reflection of having refurbished the manette control about
six years ago…I had forgotten how it worked.
Greg Bernier>From: Jagdad11@aol.com

Reply-To: xk@jag-lovers.org

Hi Greg: No, you need for those grub screws to grab the steel disc of the
horn assembly. That disc needs to rotate with the steering wheel to work
the
cancel feature. That disc needs to turn independently of the horn and
chrome
switch; however. Mine was rather tight, and I cleaned and oiled it so it
works nicely. I (along with some help from this list) have discovered
what

Regards, Bob McAnelly

Hi Greg: Got my car put back together last night. Glued up my patch and all
seems to work. Will be anxious to see if the epoxied tubes stay together.
If they do not, I may have to try to braze everything together. As my patch
tube is brass, the brazing should go of.
Regards, Bob McAnelly

Please advice (on XK120, early 1952) just installed used horn assy with turn signal switch. Problem is that the push (chromed ring assy) is freely spinning… Couldn’t find another more recent XK thread of the topic. Anyone having photos, drawings of the horn assy points to have alook to figure out and solve the problem?

Here is a picture of the little dimples mentioned earlier in this thread (15 years ago).


They are on the forward end of the manette tube, which fits into the long stator tube, which in turn is clamped at the forward end of the steering box.
Either you are missing the dimples or they are smashed or the stator tube is not clamped or is too short and the dimples are not catching in it.
Also be aware that where you see the tape, the wires were rubbing on the sharp edge of the stator tube as the wheel was moved in and out, and one was grounding there, so when I signaled a left turn the fuse would blow. The tape was a temporary fix, and I later put on shrink tubing over the place.

2 Likes

Hi Charles,
Nice of you to reply, but I would point out that sending a photo “off list” , while useful to the recipient, isn’t much use to anyone doing a search somewhere down the track.
I’ve found this to be a problem many times when looking for information.
Please take this in the way it’s meant.
Cheers
Garry

Garry, 15 years ago when Charles sent that, we could not post photos to the forum. There was a photo album site, but it was cumbersome for some.

Hi,
Thank you very much for your super fast reply. I’m learner and try to figure out what is the stator tube and how to clamp it? Do you mean the steering column tube, which is clamped to the bulkhead / dash bracket?

Ah, my bad. Didn’t notice how old the post was. Apologies.

Hannu:

There is a clamp that secures the end of the stator tube located at the front of the steering box where the signal and horn wires exit the tube.

Chris.

It seems I failed to take a picture of my stator tube when I had it out, but anyway it is a steel tube about 1/2 inch or 12.5 mm diameter and about 5 feet or 1.5 meters long, inside the steering column. It has a slot cut in the rearward end. The manette tube fits over it and engages in that slot.
It is clamped at the front end with a pinch clamp with one bolt and nut here.


This picture happens to be a Mark V but the steering box is the same.

Charles. Are you still active on this forum? I have been off for some time. Bob mcanelly