[xk] pretty good article on ZDDP in oil, including a list of

oils and their content (as of 2010).
http://www.intermarque.org/images/IMM1008.pdf--
John
MA, United States
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Finally, something in “Engrish” that 99% of car guys should
be able to understand…
I consider myself more of a technophobe (or is that -phobic?) and
was so confused by the oil company’s “published” (or lack of)
information about the amount of ZDDP (or lack of) in their oils…
It really irks me that (1) Castrol Oil NA is very consumer
unfriendly about the ZDDP (or lack of) in their GTX 20w50,
(2) their (oil engineer’s) “denial” about the fact that low and/or
no ZDDP causes cam tappet damage and excessive wear to other rotating/moving
engine parts, and (3) “Castrol” makes “Castrol Classic”, which they specify
as being for “classic/vintage” automobiles, but it is ONLY offered in the UK
(What? You got a Jaguar?? So move to England!!)
“Most” of the “Classic/Vintage Car” friendly oils (those with
acceptable levels of ZDDP) tend to be synthetics. From posted
results by users on this forum (and the Chevelle forum my son
is on), synthetic oil seems to be very prone to leak out of
“pre-emission” engines more rapidly than “Dino-Juice”… Then
there are those of us who just prefer dead dino-squeezin’s
to “better living thru chemistry”… AND, what “classic car”
mineral oil that is “out there” is relabled (in my opinion) oil
from re-opened failed or former unpopular oil refiners…
Amalie being one… Pennzoil was also held in low esteem by
a good number of folks I knew back in the early '60’s on thru
the '80’s (my experience with it was it foamed-up and created
a “froth”, in my '51 Cadillac’s engine, that looked like whipped chocolate
milk (No, I did NOT have a blown headgasket or ANY
water/coolant incursion into the oil sump!!) Went back to
“Gulfpride Single G” and all was right with my Caddy!
So, we (the Royal “We”) are still left with the age-old, and
unanswered question: "What IS the best oil to use in our
Jaguars?? No doubt that ZDDPlus WILL have to be added!
Thanks for posting a link to that publication, John… Very
informative…
Charles #677556.----- Original Message -----
From: “John7”
Subject: [xk] pretty good article on ZDDP in oil, including a list of

oils and their content (as of 2010).

http://www.intermarque.org/images/IMM1008.pdf

John
MA, United States

In reply to a message from cb@XKTX.Org sent Mon 14 May 2012:

Seems like good ol’ cheap Kendall is a non-synth option.
IIRC, Castrol 20/50 also had enough zinc/phos and that’s
only a bit more than Kendall.–
John
MA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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John;
You say Castrol 20/50 has more ZDDP than Kendall, where
did you find that info?? I’d like to get some solid numbers on
the ZDDP level… Also, I went to Castrol’s website, Nada, also
called Castrol and talked to a couple of PR types, then was
transfered to an “oil chemist/engineer” (with an attitude)… He
was the one who said you don’t need ZDDP in older
(pre-emission) vehicles… He ain’t paying for my engines,
either!!
Charles #677556.----- Original Message -----
From: “John7”

Seems like good ol’ cheap Kendall is a non-synth option.
IIRC, Castrol 20/50 also had enough zinc/phos and that’s
only a bit more than Kendall.

John
MA, United States

In reply to a message from John7 sent Mon 14 May 2012:

Hi John:

Interesting piece, thanks for bringing it to our attention.

There is a company in Hamilton, the largest town closest to
where I live, that is a wholesale oil dealer. I can recall
going there back in the sixties to buy Castrol by the case
when I first purchased my XK. Given all the concern about
ZDDP, or lack thereof, and following a conversation last
summer with Michael Sweeney of this Forum, I visited them
prior to this spring’s oil/filter change. The chap I spoke
to recommended Kendall GT-1 20W50. They do the local
circuit here of British Car Day, British Sports Car Club
Flea Market etc. promoting this product to enthusiasts with
flat tappet engines. He particularly stressed the ZDDP
content and assured me that, ‘‘You’ll be very satisfied with
this product.’’ The company has been dealing with Kendall
since it was Kendall–it’s now Conoco Phillips (no relation,
mores the pity!).

I picked up a 12 quart case and earned a 10% discount for
buying in bulk! Unfortunately, I neglected to notice they
were U.S. quarts so I had to return to pick up another one
in order to fill the XK sump. Interestingly, there is no
mention that I could find of the ZDDP content on the oil
container itself.

It’s too bad that Castrol doesn’t market the U.K. high ZDDP
oil in North America as I have used their oil since first
ownership of the Jaguar, until now that is. While I don’t
get anywhere near the redline and treat the old girl fairly
gently, I’ll rest a little easier knowing I’ve got a decent
level of phosphate working with all the other chemical
goodies in the sump.

Best regards,

Chris.–
The original message included these comments:

oils and their content (as of 2010).


CP120
Ancaster, Ontario, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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On the Kendall GT-1 20w50…
After much digging (Bing/Google search), I finally found
Kendall’s parent site… The Conoco/Phillips website…
Kendall lists ten “different use” oils, seven are full synthetic,
one is a synthetic blend, one is for Nitro and Alcohol-Fuled
Competition Engines, and one is a “Conventional Engine Oil for
Passenger Cars & High-Performance/Competition Engines”. All
ten oils are “fortified with Titanium” (as was Castrol some years
back).
Product Info states for passenger cars and light trucks “that do not
require an ILSAC GF-5 Oil for warrenty” and that the GT-1 20w50
“also contains a boosted level of zinc dialkyldithiophosphate
(ZDDP) additive…”
Farther down the product sheet, it (finally) states: “…meets or
exceeds requirements of” API Service SN (all grades except
SAE 50). Under “Features and Benefits” is: “High ZDDP content…
(SAE 20w50)”
Down in the technical specs it states (for 20w50):
“Phosphorus, wt%… 0.108”, and
“Zinc, wt %… 0.119”.
The “straight weights” (30, 40 & 50) and 10w40 list 0.077% and
0.085% Phosphorus-Zinc respectively.
So, it looks like Kendall GT-1 “conventional oil” in 20w50 looks
to be a (my) suitable replacement for what Castrol once was!!
Also, for those so interested, Kendall also has an SAE 30 wt
“Non-Detergent” oil, API Service SB (Obsolete) which (IMO) would
be perfect for our XK gearboxes.
Charles #677556.----- Original Message -----
From: “CP120”

There is a company in Hamilton, the largest town closest to
where I live, that is a wholesale oil dealer. I can recall
going there back in the sixties to buy Castrol by the case
when I first purchased my XK. Given all the concern about
ZDDP, or lack thereof, and following a conversation last
summer with Michael Sweeney of this Forum, I visited them
prior to this spring’s oil/filter change. The chap I spoke
to recommended Kendall GT-1 20W50. They do the local
circuit here of British Car Day, British Sports Car Club
Flea Market etc. promoting this product to enthusiasts with
flat tappet engines. He particularly stressed the ZDDP
content and assured me that, ‘‘You’ll be very satisfied with
this product.’’ The company has been dealing with Kendall
since it was Kendall–it’s now Conoco Phillips (no relation,
mores the pity!).

I picked up a 12 quart case and earned a 10% discount for
buying in bulk! Unfortunately, I neglected to notice they
were U.S. quarts so I had to return to pick up another one
in order to fill the XK sump. Interestingly, there is no
mention that I could find of the ZDDP content on the oil
container itself.

It’s too bad that Castrol doesn’t market the U.K. high ZDDP
oil in North America as I have used their oil since first
ownership of the Jaguar, until now that is. While I don’t
get anywhere near the redline and treat the old girl fairly
gently, I’ll rest a little easier knowing I’ve got a decent
level of phosphate working with all the other chemical
goodies in the sump.

Best regards,

Chris.

CP120
Ancaster, Ontario, Canada

Tim I;
I also visited the Valvoline website… An “issue” I ran into, that
I thought was very confusing, was, like the Kendall GT-1, there are
several “Valvoline VR-1 Racing Oils”… The “issue” part is, the
“real” racing oil MUST be changed every 500 Miles!! In short,
after every racing event! Now, that said, there is a “street” version
of the “Racing Oil”… the only difference between the two, the real
racing oil is marked “NSL” (Not Street Legal)… some folks would
believe those words make this oil that much better, not realizing
the detergents package we need for daily driving is limited to
non-existant in the “NSL” version… Bottom line, one must be ever
vigilant when grabbing-up a case of “VR-1 Racing Oil”…
Lastly, and as noted in the pdf article John Feng posted the link
for us, is ALL refiners of oils may state an oil is “high” in ZDDP,
when in reality, they are not… The 10w30 you are using does NOT
have the same level of ZDDP as does the 20w50… In short, your
“old American cars” are suffering wear due to the lack of proper
levels of ZDDP while your “old British bikes” are protected… Your
dime, but I’d go with the 20w50 in everything with an internal
combustion engine that you value!
Charles #677556.----- Original Message -----
From: “Tim Inks”

Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil is advertised as having high zinc/phosporous,
specifically for flat tappet engines, and is widely available, even at
Walmart. (I usually order it by the case from Amazon - cheaper and no sales
tax). It comes in 10W-30 and 20W-50. I use the 10W-30 in my old American
cars, and the 20W-50 in my old British bikes. (Sadly, my XK140 is still a
non-running project.)

Tim Inks

Hi Charles,

That was a concern for me also. However, the product information sheet published by Valvoline (a pdf file available on their website) states the VR-1 is suitable for street use, and lists the Zinc/Phosphorus content of both 10W-30 and 20W-50 as 0.14/0.13. I don’t think it was until fairly recently that the 10W-30 VR-1 was available.

Tim----------------------------------------

From: cb@XKTX.Org
To: xk@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xk] pretty good article on ZDDP in oil, including a list of
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 12:47:21 -0500

Tim I;
I also visited the Valvoline website… An “issue” I ran into, that
I thought was very confusing, was, like the Kendall GT-1, there are
several “Valvoline VR-1 Racing Oils”… The “issue” part is, the
“real” racing oil MUST be changed every 500 Miles!! In short,
after every racing event! Now, that said, there is a “street” version
of the “Racing Oil”… the only difference between the two, the real
racing oil is marked “NSL” (Not Street Legal)… some folks would
believe those words make this oil that much better, not realizing
the detergents package we need for daily driving is limited to
non-existant in the “NSL” version… Bottom line, one must be ever
vigilant when grabbing-up a case of “VR-1 Racing Oil”…
Lastly, and as noted in the pdf article John Feng posted the link
for us, is ALL refiners of oils may state an oil is “high” in ZDDP,
when in reality, they are not… The 10w30 you are using does NOT
have the same level of ZDDP as does the 20w50… In short, your
“old American cars” are suffering wear due to the lack of proper
levels of ZDDP while your “old British bikes” are protected… Your
dime, but I’d go with the 20w50 in everything with an internal
combustion engine that you value!
Charles #677556.

----- Original Message -----
From: “Tim Inks”

Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil is advertised as having high zinc/phosporous,
specifically for flat tappet engines, and is widely available, even at
Walmart. (I usually order it by the case from Amazon - cheaper and no sales
tax). It comes in 10W-30 and 20W-50. I use the 10W-30 in my old American
cars, and the 20W-50 in my old British bikes. (Sadly, my XK140 is still a
non-running project.)

Tim Inks

Tim;
Yeah, I just found Valvoline’s website and the pdf you referenced…
The effective date is 6-8-11 for the “VR-1 Racing Oil”… The spec
date for the VR-1 “NSL” was 2008…
So, it looks like we “ZDDP Seekers” now have two brand
options… Valvoline VR-1 in 20w50, 10w30, and straight 30, 40,
50 & 60 wts; and Kendall GT-1 in 20w50.
No doubt in my mind that Castrol has just lost my business as
Autozone is running a $2.00 Per Quart Discount, on the VR-1
20w50, until May 30th. ;-}
Charles #677556.----- Original Message -----
From: “Tim Inks”

Hi Charles,

That was a concern for me also. However, the product information sheet
published by Valvoline (a pdf file available on their website) states the
VR-1 is suitable for street use, and lists the Zinc/Phosphorus content of
both 10W-30 and 20W-50 as 0.14/0.13. I don’t think it was until fairly
recently that the 10W-30 VR-1 was available.

Tim

In reply to a message from cb@XKTX.Org sent Tue 15 May 2012:

Charles,
Apologies, I meant to say that Castrol is only a bit more
costly than Kendall. I’m a cheapo at heart and hence use
Kendall, buying it in bulk when it’s on sale. The guy at our
local AutoZone store gave me a strange look when I bought 26
bottles of the stuff at once. The next time I needed oil I
told him my engine takes over 12 quarts to fill, and burns
through most of that in a month (hence the need for 24
quarters). He asked if it was a vintage commercial freight
truck!

Hopefully the engine rebuild will solve the burning problem,
or at least transfer it to the rear tires.–
John
MA, United States
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