any got one they are willing to part with ?–
godfrey
pender island bc, Canada
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In reply to a message from godfrey sent Mon 9 Nov 2015:
By NOS do you mean ‘‘New, old stock’’ as in new, never installed? I
don’t have anything I would describe as new or never installed.
Some years ago, at the dawn of the eBay era, I felt compelled to
collect XK120 intake manifolds, including varients from the
different source foundaries. I think I have one of every 120
inlet manifold variant (except anything hand fettled at the
factory, C-Type, 2’’ H8 SU, etc).–
The original message included these comments:
any got one they are willing to part with ?
godfrey
–
Mike Spoelker
Louisville,Kentucky, United States
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In reply to a message from Mike S sent Mon 9 Nov 2015:
interesting…I am looking for the C4953 later xk120 intake
manifold…good useable condition (ie water passages…inlet-
outlet not too bad).
so…why…because my 53 120 has an earlier C2377 installed.
Works fine, nothing wrong…good shape…but should have the
C4953…and my plan is to swap em out. So…not long after I
obtain the C4953…I will have a C2377 spare, not needed.
???
Nick–
Nick53XK120S
Spokane WA, United States
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In reply to a message from Nick53XK120S sent Mon 9 Nov 2015:
Here is what I have:
C2377 - This one has some issues. 95% of it looks very good.
The coolant passages look very good. But it looks like it was
stood on its nose on a wet, muddy floor for a long time. The
front 2 - 3 inches are corroded. The integrity of the freeze
(or core) plug at the front might be iffy.
C4953 - Looks good, has some minor corrosion in the coolant
jacket passages.
C4953 - WM 2724 -Very nice cosmetics, very nice coolant
passages, no issues
C7462 - WM 6034 - nice condition–
Mike Spoelker
Louisville,Kentucky, United States
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In reply to a message from Mike S sent Mon 9 Nov 2015:
Has anybody ever investigated an approximate date or engine
number for when the C4953 replaced the C2377 manifold on
XK120? Viart says probably alloy only but I don’t think so.
I would think they simply used up remaining C2377s on XK120s
until they were gone.
The reason for the C4953 was related to the Mark VII, to add
a vacuum port on the bottom rear for the brake booster and
the two upper tapped bosses for supporting a big canister
air cleaner. These are plugged and not used on XK120.–
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
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In reply to a message from Rob Reilly sent Wed 11 Nov 2015:
C2377 was used up to engine # W 2011 or about Nov 1950 ( 660270
+/- ) so well into the steel bodies cars.–
godfrey
pender island bc, Canada
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Rob,
As you know the J.8 SPC doesn’t advise an exact Engine Number changeover
point, but the Mark VII SPC advises C4953 from the first Engine No A1001 on,
so that says on or before October 1950.
But observation of original XK120s suggests a little bit earlier, and so far
the best I can say is cJuly 1950 to cOct 1950.
I suspect best bet would be to try and date the size of the C4953 number,
but realistically think it was all part of a development period thus no
Engine Number changeover point specified in XK120 SPC as to all intents and
purposes on an XK120 the C4953 manifold was a 100% interchangeable
replacement for the C2377 manifold, with the only changes made being extras
to accommodate Mark VII air-cleaner brackets and vacuum take-off for brake
power-booster.
Confusing matters is I do have photos of a C-type engine, that clearly shows
its C4953 part number, but no sign of the air-cleaner bracket mounting
bosses, but photo angle doesn’t show area around vacuum take-off.
I am guessing that when Jaguar modified the C4953 casting to accept the 2"
HD8 carburetters they may have selected a casting with damaged/mal-formed
air-cleaner bosses and simply ground them off - who knows?
Roger Payne
XK140MC OTS; 4.2E OTS; DaimlerSV8
Canberra, Australia
.-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xk@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xk@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf Of
Rob Reilly
Sent: 12 November, 2015 00:47
To: xk@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xk] WANTED! NOS C2377 inlet manifold
In reply to a message from Mike S sent Mon 9 Nov 2015:
Has anybody ever investigated an approximate date or engine number for when
the C4953 replaced the C2377 manifold on XK120? Viart says probably alloy
only but I don’t think so.
I would think they simply used up remaining C2377s on XK120s until they were
gone.
The reason for the C4953 was related to the Mark VII, to add a vacuum port
on the bottom rear for the brake booster and the two upper tapped bosses for
supporting a big canister air cleaner. These are plugged and not used on
XK120.
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0 --Posted using
Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]-- --Support Jag-lovers - Donate
at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from Roger Payne sent Wed 11 Nov 2015:
Roger … my 120 SPC notes C2377 > W2011. re the ‘C’ type
engine… REAL ‘C’ type of 140 with ‘C’ engine? HD8s ?–
The original message included these comments:
As you know the J.8 SPC doesn’t advise an exact Engine Number changeover
Confusing matters is I do have photos of a C-type engine, that clearly shows
its C4953 part number, but no sign of the air-cleaner bracket mounting
–
godfrey
pender island bc, Canada
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Yes, real XKC chassis numbered complete original C-type engine with C-type
modified manifold to suit its twin H8 carburetters.
One of the most useful original engines that helped with my articles on
original dated H8 carburetters.
Roger Payne
XK140MC OTS; 4.2E OTS; DaimlerSV8
Canberra, Australia
.-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xk@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xk@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf Of
godfrey
Sent: 12 November, 2015 09:27
To: xk@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [xk] WANTED! NOS C2377 inlet manifold
In reply to a message from Roger Payne sent Wed 11 Nov 2015:
Roger … my 120 SPC notes C2377 > W2011. re the ‘C’ type engine… REAL ‘C’
type of 140 with ‘C’ engine? HD8s ?
The original message included these comments:
As you know the J.8 SPC doesn’t advise an exact Engine Number
changeover Confusing matters is I do have photos of a C-type engine,
that clearly shows its C4953 part number, but no sign of the
air-cleaner bracket mounting
–
godfrey
pender island bc, Canada
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In reply to a message from Roger Payne sent Wed 11 Nov 2015:
I hate to be a kill joy here Roger but according to all the
factory info I have Jaguar used the C2377 casting not the C4953…
you might want to double check that that car hasn’t had its inlet
manifold replaced.–
The original message included these comments:
Yes, real XKC chassis numbered complete original C-type engine with C-type
modified manifold to suit its twin H8 carburetters.
–
godfrey
pender island bc, Canada
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G’day Godfrey,
But sorry, I have to kill-joy you back.
I have the C-type Spare-Parts catalogue of course, and am fully aware it
only list C6007 for Inlet Manifold, and neither C2377 nor C4953, so who’s to
say whether the factory C6007 is a modified C2377 or a modified C4953, or
indeed probably both depending on the timing of development work, timing for
the ‘works’ cars first, and then making a batch for ‘production’ C-types.
But given the first H8 C-type manifolds only appeared in June 1952 for the
Le Mans race (1951 Le Mans cars had 1-3/4" carburetters), I would say it is
MORE PROBABLE that the majority (maybe all) of ‘production’ C-types did
indeed have modified C4953 castings rather than modified C2377 castings, and
photos I have albeit only a few, tend to support that premise.
Of course it’s possible that early development work after June 1951 Le Mans
that resulted in the C6007 manifold and H8 carburetters by June 1952 may
well have been initiated on earlier C2377 casting, and indeed that may well
have been the catalyst for introducing a new C4953 Manifold
What I said was surprising was this very-original engine C-type, clearly had
a C4953 casting, but there were no bosses on it, which one could speculate
several reasons why. Maybe it was one of the VERY FIRST C4953 castings
before they saw fit to further adapt it for the Mark VII with its need for
air-cleaner bracket bosses.
I don’t have intimate details of the C6007 Inlet Manifold, but do have a
number of photos of XK120/Mark VII manifold castings that have H8s fitted to
them claiming to be original H8 manifolds (thus factory C6007), but after my
detailed research into the factory XK140 H8 inlet Manifold part number C8479
(which is a modified C7462 XK140/Mark VIIM casting) quickly ascertained that
for every 50 claimed originals, 49 were home after-market modifications, and
maybe one was actually a factory original.
There is more to an H8 manifold than just opening out the inlet holes from
1-3/4" to 2" with a C8479, so I dare say a factory C6007 may also be more
than a simple open out the inlets. And as per previous posts I know that
a claimed C6007 Inlet Manifold on a claimed original C-type engine is more
believable, than either a spare loose manifold or one fitted to an XK120
engine, given we know that the factory never fitted C-type Heads, C6007
Manifolds and H8 carburetters to any XK120 factory new, when it seems only a
handful of ‘favoured’ XK120 race-teams actually received factory parts to
upgrade their racing XK120 engines.
Roger
Roger Payne
XK140MC OTS; 4.2E OTS; DaimlerSV8
Canberra, Australia
.-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xk@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xk@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf Of
godfrey
Sent: 12 November, 2015 10:23
To: xk@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [xk] WANTED! NOS C2377 inlet manifold
In reply to a message from Roger Payne sent Wed 11 Nov 2015:
I hate to be a kill joy here Roger but according to all the factory info I
have Jaguar used the C2377 casting not the C4953…
you might want to double check that that car hasn’t had its inlet manifold
replaced.
The original message included these comments:
Yes, real XKC chassis numbered complete original C-type engine with
C-type modified manifold to suit its twin H8 carburetters.
–
godfrey
pender island bc, Canada
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In reply to a message from Roger Payne sent Wed 11 Nov 2015:
Do you recall if the C-Type C4953 manifold you examined was from
the West Yorkshire (D180) William Mills (WM2724) foundry? Could
be a clue for the missing brackets.–
The original message included these comments:
MORE PROBABLE that the majority (maybe all) of ‘production’ C-types did
indeed have modified C4953 castings rather than modified C2377 castings, and
photos I have albeit only a few, tend to support that premise.
–
Mike Spoelker
Louisville,Kentucky, United States
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In reply to a message from Mike S sent Thu 12 Nov 2015:
Thanks Godfrey.
I imagine your info came from an earlier version of the J8
where mine is the Jan '58 reprint of the June '54 amended
AL3 and does not give engine numbers, just notes that C4953
superceded C2377 without explanation.
Before this discussion I had no way of knowing when that
occurred.
Its surprising that a later version deletes valuable
information, but perhaps the factory did not consider it
valuable.
Skimming through xkdata I note the following cars currently
have C2377:
660498 W2732-7
670926
670935 W2231-8
670939 W1941-8
671000 W2321-9
and the following cars currently have C4953:
660220 W1942-7
660232 W2142-8
660240 W1980-7
660282
660312
660381 W2568-7
670873 W2203-8
670951 W2477-8
Which of course doesn’t really prove anything since any of
these could have been changed.
But anyway I am satisfied that the C4953 on my Nov '51 car
is correct.
Re the C-type, the addition of the vacuum brake booster and
the large air cleaner on Mark VII were two separate
engineering decisions, and it is possible that a few
development manifolds were ordered with the vacuum port but
without the upper bosses, languished around the experimental
department for a couple of years, and found their way onto
C-type engines.
I know at my own lab experimental prototype devices sit
around for years gathering dust until somebody needs the
parts or the space and they are scrapped out.>>C2377 was used up to engine # W 2011 or about Nov 1950
my 120 SPC notes C2377 > W2011
–
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
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In reply to a message from Rob Reilly sent Thu 12 Nov 2015:
I have a NOS C-type (XKC… not 120 or 140) intake that has
never been on a motor. The part number is C4953. There are
also other unique differences for the C-type intake, but no
bosses for the MK VII air cleaner.
Hope this helps.–
The original message included these comments:
In reply to a message from Mike S sent Thu 12 Nov 2015:
–
53ctype
California, United States
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In reply to a message from 53ctype sent Thu 11 Feb 2016:
Hello! sorry to be a kill joy but the C4953 inlet manifold
is NOT ‘Ctype’ in and of itself… Be careful… the ‘Ctype’
manifold is a modified version of this manifold. and carries
a different part number. Photos ? What is the size of the
throat of the carb? it should be 2’’. You are correct re the
bosses… but some of the standard cars didn’t have these
either. The internals of the ‘Ctype’ manifold are different
too. There are a number of questionable manifolds out there
which are being touted as correct… yours MAY be… but again
be careful!–
godfrey
pender island bc, Canada
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In reply to a message from 53ctype sent Thu 11 Feb 2016:
Just for what it is worth the XK 120’‘c’ SPC lists the inlet
manifold as part number C. 6007 with a side note that c.6007 is
‘‘made’’ from C.2377.
Page 9 of the SPC–
The original message included these comments:
In reply to a message from Rob Reilly sent Thu 12 Nov 2015:
I have a NOS C-type (XKC… not 120 or 140) intake that has
never been on a motor. The part number is C4953. There are
also other unique differences for the C-type intake, but no
bosses for the MK VII air cleaner.
Hope this helps.
–
George Camp
Columbia SC, United States
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In reply to a message from godfrey sent Thu 11 Feb 2016:
I’m sure there are plenty of ‘‘replicas’’ out there… or
miss interpreted intakes, but this one is a real C-type
intake. Purchased from Jaguar in NYC in the early 1970’s,
and has never been on the C-type. Truly NOS.
The carb inlets are 2’’ tapering in slightly, the ports to
the head are larger too,(with a slight polish) as are the
coolant openings to the head. The freeze plugs at each end
are larger to accommodate the auger drill bit Jaguar used
to enlarger the balance opening between the two carb inlet
chambers. A tapered plug is used to seal the starting carb
opening. It must have started life as a standard C4953
inlet, and been modified. I have compared it to one off a
MKVII and the casting is the same, sans the air cleaner
bosses.–
The original message included these comments:
Hello! sorry to be a kill joy but the C4953 inlet manifold
–
53ctype
California, United States
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In reply to a message from 53ctype sent Wed 17 Feb 2016:
We would like to see pictures of some of these unusual
features. Were the cooling ports in the head also enlarged?–
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
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In reply to a message from Rob Reilly sent Wed 17 Feb 2016:
As soon as I figure out how to post photos I will send a
few!–
The original message included these comments:
We would like to see pictures of some of these unusual
–
53ctype
California, United States
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In reply to a message from 53ctype sent Wed 17 Feb 2016:
This is interesting and a bit of a puzzle. Did a little further
research and found the following. C2377 which the XK120 C spare
parts catalogue lists as the base part for C 6007 (the C type part
made from C2377) changes sometime in the late 50s Looking at the
J12 (master parts catalogue 1958 and 1963 editions) C 2377 was
replaced by C4953. So C 6007 would be made from C4953 but when
done so would become C 6007. The price for C 4953 in 1963 was
$36.42 while he price for C6007 was $55. Perhaps the machined item
was not re numbered or the correct number tag fell off. There is
no doubt that the correct Part number is C 6007 whether it was
made from C2377 or C4953.–
The original message included these comments:
miss interpreted intakes, but this one is a real C-type
intake. Purchased from Jaguar in NYC in the early 1970’s,
and has never been on the C-type. Truly NOS.
The carb inlets are 2’’ tapering in slightly, the ports to
–
George Camp
Columbia SC, United States
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