[xk] XK 140 DHC RHD is stolen

Werner,
That’s real bad news. I guess it just proves that if somebody wants a car
bad enough and they have the necessary skills, then all the anti theft
gadgets available just don’t amount to a hill of beans. Please pass on my
best wishes to Heinz.

Regards
Len Brighton
150fhc S824101BW
Wheelers Hill
Victoria Australia 3150
(15 miles south east of Melbourne)

Len’s home page http://www.alphalink.com.au/~minerva/_________________________________________________________________
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In reply to a message from Len Brighton sent Wed 26 May 2004:

Sorry,

I will print out your information & send it on to JDCA in NSW at
the next meeting.

If you Emailed all the Jag clubs in Aussie I am sure they would put
it on their Web sites.

Good luck,
Michael.–
The original message included these comments:

That’s real bad news. I guess it just proves that if somebody wants a car


Michael Pain
Sydney, Australia
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

Dear Listers,
many thanks for all replies on- and off-list. I’ll forward them to Heinz.
Today I pasted 3 pics into the jaglovers photo album:
http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1085569199
Have a nice day
Werner

Werner;
I worked all summer for Ninety cents (USD) per hour and on my
sixteenth birthday, I bought my first (used) Harley Davidson “Dresser” (big
touring motorcycle)…
I rode it everywhere, parked it anywhere and never chained it to a
pole, etc. and never worried about it.
In 1972, I left my Harley in my driveway, overnight, as several of
us had plans for a long “run” the next day…
Unfortunately, the next morning, my Harley was gone!
I had painted the fenders and gas tanks myself, using a unique
“blend” of Honda colors from “touch-up” cans that came packed in the crates
of the new bikes. Several friends “inspected my work” before reassembly and
I pointed out the few flaws in the paint job, although they would be hidden
by various areas of the frame or “add-on” parts, these flaws were like
fingerprints in that they were uniquely identifiable.
That summer several of my friends, and myself, “watched” a guy take
his Harley apart to make a “Chopper” out of it… his bike was in a dimly
lit garage and we could only see “shapes”, not color details. Until he
moved the tanks and fenders out front of the garage… It was my Harley he
had been stripping which was easily identified by the unique color and the
“flaws” in the various areas.
The police were called, unfortunately it was too late, the bike was
gone, except two boxes of parts he removed… I did get those back…
The guy that stripped the bike “claimed” he had bought the parts from
“some guy in a pick-up”… Although my friends were willing to testify they
observed him disassemble the bike, because no one was able to identify the
bike or it’s parts until they were placed in the sunlight, it ended up being
a “my word/his word” thing.
I can empathize with the XK-Owner’s loss of his Jag and what he is
feeling about now…
For those who have their Jaguar’s in various “piles 'o parts”, now
would be a good time to make some permanent identifying mark (like etching,
stamping, etc.), like your name, drivers license number, anything unique to
you only, on every piece of the Jag. These marks should be made in such a
manner that any attempt to remove them would noticably damage the part and
be in an out-of-the-way, but somewhat accessible place, for inspection by
law enforcement officials for inspection.
Photo or video those marks, make a written record of what and where the
marks are, and hope like hell you never need to present it to the police.
My sympathies go out to Heinz for the loss of his XK150.
We all hope the Jag is recovered intact and unharmed.
Charles #677556.----- Original Message -----
From: “Werner Luttkus”

Dear Listers,
many thanks for all replies on- and off-list. I’ll forward them to Heinz.
Today I pasted 3 pics into the jaglovers photo album:
http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1085569199
Have a nice day
Werner

Rick H;
It is apparent that you don’t have a criminal mind… which is
good…
Most cars, today, are stolen for parts… A car stolen on Monday,
will be parts being shipped out on Wednesday… maybe as late as Friday.
Besides, with our old cars, a restamped Commission Plate that
matches a title from an old dead car would take five minutes to change… a
quick trip to the MOT (or whatever agencies registers vehicles in Europe),
and you have a “clean, legal” car to sell, use, or whatever… (and I’m not
saying anything that the criminals don’t already know and do!!)
In the Art World, paintings are often stolen for “private collections”
that are never seen by anyone but the “owner”… Jaguars are sort of useless
as Objects d’Art. Plus there are any number of countries (even states in the
US) that don’t require a “title” to register the vehicle, but will issue
one… once the “title” and registration are “officially entered” in
someone’s name, it’s a “legal” vehicle…
Think about it, when you see an XK, do you “dig around” to see is ALL
the Numbers on the Commission Plate match those on the component parts??
Neither do 90% of the people buying old cars…
I don’t think anyone “condones” theft, but nearly all law enforcement
agencies are “swamped” with theft reports… The day my house was
burglarized, so were three hundred other houses in Ft. Worth… the day
before and the day after were the same, as were every day since… FWPD had
ten detectives to “solve” these 300 cases every day… the reality was, they
were lucky to solve one!! And this was just house burglaries… not car
thefts, robberies (strong arm and armed), assaults, aggravated assaults
(rapes), murders, muggings, etc.
We, as law abiding citizens, need to “do our part” by being observant,
reporting suspicious activities, etc. as well as “getting involved”
Also, I feel a “failing” on the part of the group Heinz was with was a
simple lack of security. Back in the late '70’s/early '80’s, when the
Dallas Jag club held it’s annual Concours, there were two “security” people
on duty for four hour shifts, all thru the night, and during the day when
“inside” social events were going on, these people were club members who
stayed with the Jags in the show. They weren’t “police”, only “observers”
in the event something happened, their job was to contact the authorities
(fire or PD), the hotel security, etc. Plus, arrangements had been made with
the Dallas PD to have a patrol car make a few tours of both the exterior
parking lots and the underground parking lot (where the concours was held)
as a “show of force” and a deterrent for any would-be trouble-makers.
It’s hard to get “volunteers” to work all day then stay up (or get up)
into the wee hours of the morning, but the protection of millions of dollars
worth of Jags is well worth everyone’s involvement and sacrifice of a few
hours sleep.
On a “tour” like Heinz was on, if the hotel didn’t offer enclosed,
secure parking, then the only option would have been to have some folks
staying with the Jags thoughout the night… or hire local off-duty law
officers. This adds to the cost of a tour, but how much is Heinz’s 140 worth
in the overall scheme of things??
Charles #677556.----- Original Message -----
From: holland-rick@juno.com

    <Snipped>

It sounds like certain cars are “targeted” and subsequently stolen! Who
want’s them and how are they “registered” for use should be publicized.
Where or what countries cast a “blind eye” to this sort of thing should
also be made public. Locations that “condone” this type of crime should
be highlighted and perhaps avoided (boycotted) for all matters.

Charles,

It doesn’t seem likely that a 140 would be targeted to “part out”. It’s
more than likely that it will surface complete (if it were stolen for a
profit motive). Yes it could reappear with a “new” commission plate and
numbers but it indeed raises questions as to it’s ancestry wherever it
appears in “the civilized world”. Don’t you ask about every early XK
you see?

If one had a badly damaged car and “put the word out” that they were in
the market for “parts” anything of course is possible! It seems it would
take a bit of money to organize this and given that there are a
reasonable number of good fabricators that make body parts it just
doesn’t seem likely. As barn finds become more and more “rare” a
miraculous repair or home restoration would raise suspicion.

Since it was a DHC, it certainly raises questions as they have little
“race history” to make stealing a duplicate for repair parts IMHO, worth
the risk. Who would want one for it’s own sake?

Regards,

Rick________________________________________________________________
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Rick;
Actually, I only ask about 120 DHC Numbers… When I actually “see”
an XK (very rare event), I’ll look at the Commission Plate, but that’s about
it, And that’s more than most buyers will do… 'tis unfortunate that
buyers will rarely “verify the numbers”… mostly because they don’t know
where they are… not just on XK’s, but Dee-Troit Iron, as well.
With respect to “ancestry”, can you tell anybody who all owned your
DHC?? I’m the third “titled” owner (second “real” owner) of mine, I talked
to the first owner, who sold it to the wrecking yard I bought it from, for a
good hour… back in '67 or '68… I couldn’t tell you his name if my life
depended on it (and I use to go to his roller skating rink every weekend).
I doubt many others could cite their Jag’s lineage, either… Granted, some
can… but I’d bet they are few in number.
The possibilities of it reappearing with a set of “new numbers” is
very real… It doesn’t matter if the Jag was raced or not… most buyers
won’t research JDHT (cause you have to show “Proof of Ownership” to get that
info) or any other database (if any are available) and very few employ the
services of a qualified Professional Appraiser… Like us, they let their
hearts rule their heads, when it comes to buying “that classic car” of their
dreams, after all, who would pay serious money to restore a stolen car??
Right?? So the seller “must” be honest.
We’ve learned from the luxury of being on the XK-List… there are
untold thousands who aren’t “on-line”, aren’t "computer savvey, and/or just
plain don’t know enough to ask questions, much less know what questions to
ask and from who…
The realities are, someone had wrecked/trashed/destroyed/etc. his
XK140 DHC, has a good clean title (or proof of ownership), and those are the
numbers that will grace the “new” Commission Plate… By now, the task is
already finished, and the guy is either driving his “freshly
painted/re-upholstered/restored” etc. Jaguar or is selling it… and no one
will be the wiser… Sad!
It happens… It happened to me with my Harley… It’s just as easy
with a car!
The best anti-theft device is a .357 Magnum… problem is, you gotta
catch the bastard, first!!
Charles #677556.----- Original Message -----
From: <holland-rick

      <Snipped>
            .................It's

more than likely that it will surface complete (if it were stolen for a
profit motive). Yes it could reappear with a “new” commission plate and
numbers but it indeed raises questions as to it’s ancestry wherever it
appears in “the civilized world”. Don’t you ask about every early XK
you see?

                <Snipped>

Since it was a DHC, it certainly raises questions as they have little
“race history” to make stealing a duplicate for repair parts IMHO, worth
the risk. Who would want one for it’s own sake?

Charles, how do you go about determining who the previous owners are? The certificate I got for mine only indicates the first owner.

Thanks for your continued wealth of knowledge…

Neil

Neil;
The only way I know of, is to contact the “DMV” (or whatever it may be
called in your state or the state the vehicle was last registered in) and
see if they will “trace” the VIN… which will probably be the Engine Number,
not the Chassis number… (keeping in mind the “S” suffix for SE Jags was
often mistakenly entered as an “8”… by the same token, the “8” (C.R #)
might be found as an “S” and prefixes were mis-read or left off, etc.)…
Because our Jags are so old, and more often than not, have been off the
road (unregistered) for a few decades, the DMV computer systems probably
won’t even acknowledge the Jag exists…
You might have to contact someone in the DMV in your state capital
(maybe professional special records searching companies??) and request a
“pre computer” records search. There will probably be a healthy fee for
this service, even if they don’t find anything… Likewise, if you live in or
near your capital, you might be allowed to search for those records,
yourself.
If the "DMV does find anything, generally a title will only show a
“previous owner” or “Seller”, you will have to hop-scotch (with emphasis on
the Scotch) back thru each title transfer and/or annual vehicle registration
(remember having to get new license plates every year??), which may involve
several different states, or even countries, to find all the previous
owners…
It might help, in some cases, if you have the last known registration
(license plate) number, as some DMV’s have better, and older, records of
those numbers than they do title records.
It’s an involved, time-consuming investigative process, not cheap, and not
something you can do on the Internet, that I am aware of…
I’ve searched for a few (very few) previous owners, generally only “one
generation” removed, but have never tried to search for ALL the PO’s of a
vehicle… so my information isn’t from experience, but what I have been
lead to believe from talking to various “DMV” functionary types (aka
“flunkies”).
Best of luck in your search.
Charles #677556.----- Original Message -----
From: skippena@bellsouth.net

Charles, how do you go about determining who the previous owners are? The
certificate I got for mine only indicates the first owner.