[xk] XKC

All:
Who on the list considered himself (or herself, Susan) an expert on the
subject of C and D types? I recently received an excited phonecall from a
friend overseas. He claims to have been offered one of the 3 original works
XKC’s. My understanding from all that I have read is that all three cars
were broken up by the factory. With many historical vehicles being
resurrected from an old shock mount and a lot of imagination, I advised him
to proceed very carefully. I noticed in the Hemmings that arrived today
that XKC 023 is available after a careful rebuild from the only remaining
bits, the head and block. Comments?
Regards
Bruce Baysinger

In a message dated 1/6/99 2:38:37 PM Central Standard Time,
habsysco@worldnet.att.net writes:

<< Who on the list considered himself (or herself, Susan) an expert on the
subject of C and D types? I recently received an excited phonecall from a
friend overseas. He claims to have been offered one of the 3 original works
XKC’s. My understanding from all that I have read is that all three cars
were broken up by the factory. With many historical vehicles being
resurrected from an old shock mount and a lot of imagination, I advised him
to proceed very carefully. I noticed in the Hemmings that arrived today
that XKC 023 is available after a careful rebuild from the only remaining
bits, the head and block. Comments? >>

Well,… I know a little bit about C-Types (the problem being that every
time someone claims he or, in Susan’s case, she is an expert; someone else
comes along and knows that one little bit more and then you feel like a fool)
but I will try to answer any questions.
The TRUE experts are, in my opinion, Terry Larson in Arizona and Chris Keith-
Lucas at Lynx in the UK. There may, of course, be others with an equal or
greater amount knowledge that I am unaware.
This is what I’ve heard, on the street, about the car you mentioned.
A comment on 023… which one are you talking about ? The one in Illinois
that was completed “after a careful rebuild from the only remaining bits, the
head and block”?; or the other one that was completed after a careful rebuild
from the only remaining bit, the chassis, became available. Or maybe the third
one that was completed after a careful rebuild from the only remaining bit,
the body, became available. Currently there are three cars claiming that same
number. I may be wrong however, someone mentioned another car in France. I
also heard that Peter Jaye, in the UK, has worked on the car. I met Peter a
while ago and his standard of quality is second to none. And he is a great guy
too. A true “old world” craftsman.

If I may quote “Jaguar Sports Racing Cars” by Phillip Porter (Bay View Books)
, Technical Consultancy by Chris Keith-Lucas. ISBN 1 870979 67 2. Page 163
“XKC 023
Engine number E1023
Body number E1023
Registration number n/a
Dispatch date 18/11/52
Colour Red,
History
Supplied to Hornburg, USA; sold to Joe Henderson (Seattle & Tacoma) driven by
Jack Douglas & Bill Pollack;
1953 Seattle Seafair 100-mile race, Pollack, 2nd;
1955 Road America, Elkhart Lake, Jack Douglas, 11th;
1956 Palm Springs, Ces Critchlow, ret’d;
Torrey Pines, crashed (rolled);
it is reported that part, or possibly all, of the car may survive in
California; claims to this chassis number also exist in USA and Italy.”

The owner of the car wrote a letter to either C&S or T&CC in the UK within the
past 24 months. That letter appeared in print in the “Letters” section. I do
not know which issue off hand. With a little research one should be able to
unearth it.
I honestly don’t know which one is the correct car. I have heard that they all
have some original parts (my garage, 2 owners-never raced, has some original
C-Type parts for that matter) but we’re not talking about a $10,000 car here.
I’d be REAL sure before spending anywhere near the asking price for any car,
where history is important, without getting substantial documentation.
By the way, 023C (C for Chicago ???) has been for sale for over a year now.
The point of this typing exercise is that “BE CAREFUL” is the coin of the
realm when buying an intangible such as history (cars, paintings, art, etc.).
If you just wanted a car, the 023 in Chicago is magnificently done. Real
quality workmanship. Can’t fault that part at all.
Interesting C features/trivia…(not that anyone asked, but since you got
this far…)
Dunlop wire wheels with alloy rims.
Carbs are SU H8’s or Weber DCO/3
Water pump is C-Type only
3 piece sump in many cases
Steering wheel is home market (UK) MG TC
Special Rev counter
Speedo was a RR model with a different face
Tool box (tray) under passenger seat.
Exhaust manifolds are different from other XK series
and a bunch of other differences…
Lyon’s, being the tightwad that he was, made sure the C-Types were true “parts
bin” cars with Jaguars using what ever was around at the time from Lucas, MG,
etc.
Seemed to have worked.
If you have any questions please contact me and I’ll try to answer whatever I
could.
I know a few more details but would prefer to discuss it off the public list
if a purchase seems eminent.

Ron

Hi Bruce,

Yes, it is indeed a minefield, and all of the 1951 works C-Types were
broken up. However, there were plenty of other works raced C-Types and
most of those exist, including all of the 1953 Le Mans cars.

The best trick is to find out which chassis number your friend has been
offered, and then I would be very happy to point you in the direction of
the very best authority I know of.

Kindest regards

LES. HUGHES

The Jaguar Magazine----------

From: Bruce Baysinger habsysco@worldnet.att.net
To: xk@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [xk] XKC
Date: Thursday, 7 January 1999 6:36

All:
Who on the list considered himself (or herself, Susan) an expert on the
subject of C and D types? I recently received an excited phonecall from a
friend overseas. He claims to have been offered one of the 3 original
works
XKC’s. My understanding from all that I have read is that all three cars
were broken up by the factory. With many historical vehicles being
resurrected from an old shock mount and a lot of imagination, I advised
him
to proceed very carefully. I noticed in the Hemmings that arrived today
that XKC 023 is available after a careful rebuild from the only remaining
bits, the head and block. Comments?
Regards
Bruce Baysinger

Bruce,

Terry Larson, is the keeper of the C, D, XKSS, and Lightweight E-type
register. Having had many a conversation with Terry, #23 has given him fits
because it was wrecked and the parts were scattered to the four winds. A few
years ago, someone paid an incredible sum for one of supposed #23s, which
had some of the parts, only to find it was not considered to be THE #23.

If you are referring to the car advertised in Hemmings, you will notice in
the ad that they do not say specifically this IS car #23, they say that it
is "based around the original engine and cylinder head of #023. …Jaye
reconstructed this [not the] #023 to exact ‘C’ type specifications. The
other ambiguous statement is “…just stunning in the original red color of
#23.” Notice they didn’t say “just stunning in its original color.”

They are walking a fine line; what’s not said is far more telling than what
is.

Being the conscientious list member that I am, I put a call into Terry
Larson and left a message on his answering machine. (It’s a local call for
me, so don’t be overly impressed.) I don’t know if he is around or when I’ll
get a call back, but without any other information, I would conclude that it
is a very nice car, with historic significance, but tell your friend not to
think they are buying what is considered by the experts to be the REAL #23,
until they are REAL SURE!

“Mark 1” Mark Stephenson
Jaguar Club of Central Arizona (USA)
1958 3.4 Litre Saloon
www.cableone.net/jcca-----Original Message-----
From: Duncan120@aol.com Duncan120@aol.com
To: xk@jag-lovers.org xk@jag-lovers.org
Date: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [xk] XKC

In a message dated 1/6/99 2:38:37 PM Central Standard Time,
habsysco@worldnet.att.net writes:

<< Who on the list considered himself (or herself, Susan) an expert on the
subject of C and D types? I recently received an excited phonecall from a
friend overseas. He claims to have been offered one of the 3 original
works
XKC’s. My understanding from all that I have read is that all three cars
were broken up by the factory. With many historical vehicles being
resurrected from an old shock mount and a lot of imagination, I advised
him
to proceed very carefully. I noticed in the Hemmings that arrived today
that XKC 023 is available after a careful rebuild from the only remaining
bits, the head and block. Comments? >>