I’m in a terrible quandary. The “VIN” number on the Texas title for my '64 begins with J64 and I can’t find the original J64 tag. The extra screw hole is there. Is the car more original with a reproduction J64 tag, with the hole and no tag, or with the screw hole welded closed? For authenticity purposes, will California sell me a tag that looks like the original? Will the “usual” suppliers put these tags back in production? Should I attempt to get the Texas Motor Vehicle folks to change the VIN number? What is the JCNA point deduction for a hole and no tag, versus a hole with just a screw, or a hole with a screw and a reproduction tag? Should I purchase a used, but authentic tag from E-Bay? What are the specs on the screw? So many important questions…I think I’ll sell the car…but who would buy it in this condition…
You can’t make a car more original by fitting a reproduction part, so just say that the “J tag” is missing and that’s the rivet hole where it used to be.
Frankly I couldn’t really care, but what upsets me are people who say “your car isn’t correct” when what they ought to say is “your car isn’t in the same state as when it left the factory”.
All of these cars are worth roughly the same amount of money but some of them have been talked up and a better story has been attached to them. Just take a new F-Pace or I-Pace off of the showroom floor and enter it in a concours competition:- it’ll score 100 by default but no one will care because there is no story to tell. Stick it in a barn for 50 years, tell everyone it was owned by Paul Newman or Neil Armstrong and that its been to the moon and back and it took 1000 hours to rebuild it and now you’re off to the races.
I’d leave the little screw hole there and tell everyone a good story about it instead. In fact, I’d go further and nip down to WallMart, get a little trophy engraved with “Monterey 2019 100point concours winner” on it and knock out a little certificate on the laser printer to go with it. You can then casually leave it on the back seat and let it be a conversation starter for lost lonely misguided people who think that the car is more interesting than the person. And you still have change from your $500k.
Quandry?, nah that’s a simple one! Glad I was able to help.
kind regards
Marek
… I’m glad I’m not an AACA judge anymore. I will never be a judge again.
That’s odd. Mine is a J64 car but it is not included in the VIN on my title. I guess it depends on what states it passed through in its life and how they transcribed it. I would think you could appeal to DMV and ask them to reissue the title correctly. The biggest issue I have is in getting them to believe that a VIN is valid that has less than 16 characters.
Almost utterly so… which is why I will never again participate in a polishing contest.
MADE. MY. DAY!!!
Exactly. Simple, honest and nothing to hide.
Had a BEEG kerfuffle with my local DMV on that. I had to trailer the car to the office, for a cop to verify it was the VIN: they wanted to make ME pay the cost, and I told them, I’ll see you at an arbitrator’s office.
They relented…
I was going to opine on something like that .
Way back when tests were the subject of a discussion. an educator, I recall. If folks max or ace a test, the test is inadequate, ie, too “easy”.
All related to perfection. It does not exist on our earth…
Carl
Erica, the west coast Jxx prefix has been a problem for others, especially when exported because the title doesn’t match factory build records. I imagine some folks have taken the steps to remove it from the title to avoid issues down the road. We don’t know a great deal about how and why the prefix was mandated or who was made responsible for installing it but clearly done before it hit dealers because it was sold and registered with the prefix so assume it was Hornburg that was forced to do it by some Calif. authority. BTW I’ve seen the prefix on an Austin Healey as well. That said if Hornburg received the car and it was shipped out of state that state may not have recognized the prefix and used the Jaguar supplied paperwork for registration even though the tag was installed. I believe it will always be a mystery because nobody still around who was involved or if still around it was just a mundane job so they’re not surfacing to explain.
pauls
The complete inconsistency of judging between different shows points out just how arbitrary the whole process can be. I also have no more interest in judged events in the future…
I intended for my post regarding the J64 tag to be a tongue in cheek commentary on the absurdity of concours, but I guess it wasn’t far enough off the deep end. I really don’t give a rats ass about the little tag unless it turns into a pissing contest when I do sell the car. I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it. In the interim I will stamp a piece of old license plate with J64 and screw it on with a straight slot screw as that’s what I’ve seen in some photos. It does add a smidgeon to the car’s provenance I suppose.
I totally got it…
The REAL problem is not the judges, but the people being judged who take the whole thing FAR too seriously. I was at a show last year, where I requested NOT to be judged. After 20 years, and 50K miles, I KNOW my car is not going to win, so why not let others have their fun. The judges came by, complimented my car, and talked me into allowing them to judging it. I ended up getting an “Honorable Mention” ribbon to add to my (getting old and dusty) collection of trophys and ribbons. Sure, that is, arguably, kind of like a “participation trophy”, but it was nice to know the judges at least thought that much of my car. If I win, great. If I don’t, that’s ok too, as I always have a good time, and get to hang out with a bunch of fun guys I only see once or twice a year. But the guys who trailer their cars, spend days with tiny rags, forceps and Q-Tips cleaning and prepping them, and then get upset if they DON’T win, they are missing the whoooooooole point.
Regards,
Ray L.
FWIW - Most of the ones I’ve seen were held on with small, Cad-plated, slotted, hex-head, flanged sheet metal screws, I’d guess #6x3/8" or so? Similar to these (but not exactly like these):
I reality, I would not be surprised to find they used whatever they had laying around on that particular day…
Regards,
Ray L.
Another comment I heard more than once from the chief judge during the judges meeting before we all walked out to the field of battle to select losers and winners. I’m paraphrasing, but essentially the message was, “Don’t nitpick every little flaw and beat the car (and by extension, the owner) to death. Note deficiencies that are representative of the state of the vehicle. The scores should reflect the overall rank of the cars”. That’s why I agree with the judge who said there are no 100 point cars. A determined judge can always find something; the question is, is a speck of lint on a black carpet really worth noting as a deduction?
That pretty much reflected my experience as one also being judged. At one concours the judges would note this or that. I’d correct those items before the next concours only to have the judges,who were usually the same judges at the previous concours, find something else that existed at the last concours.
Is all that a complaint about Concours? No. I enjoyed it. The trick is to treat it for what it is, a friendly game - a hobby, to be enjoyed with folks you’d like to sit and have a conversation with. It only stops being fun when the participant treats it like a life and death struggle for survival.
The “problem” is twofold:- 1/ that the concours score makes it appear that the JCNA endorses the quality of the restoration work and 2/ they aren’t being paid a wedge for their “endorsement”.
kind regards
Marek
The use of the JCNA scores as a sales tool, i. e., mentioning JCNA scores in advertising text, is a separate topic from the concours itself. I can see both sides of that issue. On the one hand it could rightfully be considered a measure of the quality of the work. On the other hand the potential for misuse and misrepresentation is significant. In either case the buyer is exhibiting foolish behavior if they think high concours scores automatically translate into a quality, trouble free car. Like in every other large expensive purchase of a used item it comes down to doing one’s research.
In defense of them–and you KNOW what I think of concours d’arrogances-- that IS the point for them.
I know they look at the likes of us, who use our cars, just as askance as we do, them.
No harm, no foul… we all play in different sandboxes!
How can you guys be comfortable using massive generalizations about ‘them and us’ on judging issues etc when you insist on hard data in other contexts?
I call bogus on claims that concours entrants look the least bit askance at anyone using their car. I’ll go further and suggest that in their chit-chat they spend less time dissing others than we do them. I’ve never come across catty conversations in thar direction.