Opon disassembly to do a quick reseal on my '66 E gearbox, I decided to insert a dummy shaft and remove the layshaft to check it for wear. It’s surprisingly good with only 45,000 miles, but does have enough wear I want to replace it.
Moss offers a standard shaft for $69.00 but sng has a uprated one for $169.00. My instinct says get the upraded part. My question is: Is it worth the extra $$$ ?
If uprated means the shaft is harder, I would definitely do it for my all-synchro
Dennis
Denis Welch sells an uprated one
Hello Tim,
That’s considerable wear for 45K miles, but its common to see wear in that area (1st Gear / Reverse Idler Gear)
I always have a chuckle when I see reference to Uprated associated to this shaft. There was a change in material mentioned in Jaguar dispatches, early in the production of the S3 car, but apart from the material and Heat Treatment, not much more can be done to “Uprate” this shaft.
The great majority of gearbox parts, including shafts such as your Lay Shaft example, are made using EN36A, or on less common occasions, the slightly stronger EN39B. Both of these are Case Hardening Steels that if the manufacturer has any pride in the components they make, should be double heat treated (Core Refined and Case Hardened).
This is a relatively simple shaft to manufacture with the tolerance easy to maintain. Accordingly, rather than advertise an Uprated part, it would be more accurate to list the two varieties as Poorly or Normally made.
Most Heat Treatment plants will be obliging and perform a hardness test on your shaft (its quick and simple). As you intend replacing the shaft, the test can be made in any area along the shaft. If your shaft is case hardened, the test should indicate a hardness circa 60RHC. On a new shaft, the test can be made in either of the areas that locate in the walls of the Gearbox Housing.
Regards,
Bill
Maybe “uprated” in this case means not defective from day one? This the new shaft the previous rebuilder installed in mine that went all of 200 miles. I’m not sure which vendor it was purchased from but I’m both annoyed that it was supplied like this, as well as used like this.
Wow! I ordered the supposed uprated one from SNG Barratt. They have good customer service compared to moss. Plus the moss one is likely made in china. I would like to find a rear cover as my cover has two cracks. I can stop drill the cracks and put some Marine JB weld on the area.
The second post from Douglass shows the link to Dennis Welch Motorsport a supplier who has them.
Funny… not funny.
Since I’m not really in the business of this stuff, I don’t see directly the amount of craptastic parts there are, but reading on here anout the amount of junk that people get, and pay good money for, is just astounding to me.
Just wanted to let you know, the uprated layshaft from SNG is the Dennis Welch part.
The rear cover is available. Its machined, not cast, but only Houdini would know its there.
Houdini knows where to get one too… I can’t find one to save my life, so epoxy repair on the old one is my only choice.
SNG C25068 $85 . This one?
Yes, but special order. I’m planning on assembling the transmission this weekend. I’m so far behind on this project, I can’t afford to wait.
Can’t the broken cover be welded and resurfaced?
So what makes it “uprated”? The Dennis Welch description reads “Top quality high grade product carefully made to give increased life under demanding conditions”. Therefore, is the standard, non-uprated part carelessly made? I would think that care should be taken in the manufacture of all critical gearbox components. It can only be material type and or heat treatment that could set two such parts apart and there would be zero practical advantage in using anything other than EN36A or similar, which is the material that should be used in any case. I made the Bolt Tubes and Locking Lugs of long range target rifle actions using EN36A and the repeated high shock loads exerted would exceed any type of abuse you could dish out to the Lay Shaft.
The heat treatment for that material should be Core Refine and Case Harden, with cutting out the Core Refine being a way to downgrade the parts, not add it to uprate it. The cost saving with that would be measured in cents, not dollars. I can see no justification for a $100.00 difference in price, even if the shaft was made out of the super rare material, Unobtainium, or sintered Moon Dust.
Regards,
Bill
I bought this one because it’s made in England not China Junk.
It’s so super thin, plus $$$ to do that. The crack is on the outside of the seal pocket area. Not the most critical spot.
I’m not fond of Chinese products, but if the “down rated” part from SNGB is Chinese, then I’ve fitted many of these supplied by the client.
I never take parts supplied as being correct and measure all parts used in the Gearboxes I rebuild. If the “down rated” shafts from SNBG are made in China, then all that I have used supplied by clients actually check out OK. It’s fine to pay more for a part, but I doubt, apart from the warm feeling you may get, that you get the more than double the price value over the “down rated” part. With the correct equipment, this is a simple part to make and make well.
Regards,
Bill
What is your problem? The SNG uprated one has " made in England" is etched on the part itself. It’s supposed to be hardened more than the original, which tend to be too soft. If you can’t say anything positive keep your thoughts to yourself.
Thanks again!
I’ve got no problem other than how, apart from material and heat treatment, how this part can be made uprated. You can print what you like on a part, but that doesn’t make it any better. This is a very simple part to make and you would have to be careless to stuff it up, rather than being careful to makes it better.
