Why would anyone replace the clutch on a car that has not run for 50 years? That just seems odd.
That is a very interesting series of exchanges. I think I know which side of the fence I reside. For a similar, but much more elaborate story, check out Ferrari P3 8046. This too, was supposed to be scrapped,after a massive accident at Le Mans, but was ārescuedā from the Ferrari scrap pile, and some time later, rebuilt. The chief protagonist (owner) has gone to great lengths to prove its provenance, but because Ferrari records say it was scrapped, Ferrarista refuse to accept its existance despite physical evidence to the contrary. Itās a long drawn out saga, but I believe the final outcome was that the owner made a claim in an American court claiming the car to be what it was, and it was then up to Ferrari to refute that and defend it in court. As they failed to do so, the court judgement went in favour of the plaintiff. I think the car was exhibited at Pebble Beach, so presumably someone thinks itās genuine; I donāt think replicas are welcome there. Itās a good story if you are interested and have some time.
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The under side pictures were of an entirely different car, a 140. He still has not produced pictures of the engine, transmission or the body numbers. The car may be the real 670066 but the presentation is a little suspect.
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There is also the matter of the Warshawsky replacement grill!
The grille matters not either way, photos of the underneath and of the chassis stamping would help him enormously. As Terry said the ID plate looks the goods but a bit more detail would help.
It will be nice to see where this story ends, and for which price does it go.
I was aware of similar situations in the original Mini Cooper S scene, where fakes abound but also cars entirely new-built around an original registration (hence genuine only on paper).
There have been (Jeep GPW) cases of one legitimate car being used to produce two cars that are sold are āgenuine 1944 WWII Jeepsā by restoring separately the (original) chassis and (original) body and (litterally) using them in new respective elements.
And possibly you all know this story of PAS645 and XKD530, (look at the goodwood historic site, the link will not copy)
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There was also the case of the Bentley, āOld Number Oneā which was the subject of a High Court case in the UK in 1990. Anyone with the time or inclination can read about it here:
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Legal judgments are good reading when they dwell on a lively subject.
That one is indeed worth the effort.
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Fascinating read. Thanks for sharing!
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At the time of the Court case I was working in a London office that faced the rear entrance of the High Court. When the case was concluded, the victor did a ālap of honourā in the (noisy) Old Number One. As I recall it was then painted red/maroon.
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I just realized that I had heard about this car maybe 4-5 years ago. A friend of my brother had seen it disassembled and neglected at the old manās shop in southern Illinois. He knew it was an old Jag like mine and said it was an aluminum body. I told him what he probably saw was a regular steel car with aluminum hood, doors and trunk lid as they all are.
I thought about driving down there to check it out, but itās a 6 hour drive each way from Chicago and I just didnāt have the time.
He gave me the old manās number and I called him to see if he wanted to sell, but he gave me such a grouchy and profane dismissal that I gave up on him.
So now it looks like the old man has died and the son is selling it.
Am I regretting a lost opportunity? Well, no, one 120 is enough for me and I have enough other projects already.
The story of taking apart a complete car to make another or several āoriginalsā is not new. It also happens a lot with Bugattis. However, I fail to see why somebody would fake a WWII Jeep. After the end of the war, hundreds if not thousands of them were left behind in France, along Dodges and GMC trucks. They were ārecuperatedā by the French army and some were sold to civilians and some of them are still used by farmers and loggers, sometimes in heavily modified form, but in my humble opinion, itās by no means difficult to find an original one.
I also remember the story of Lord Brockett, who destroyed 2 highly valuable Ferraris and a Maserati Birdcage, only keeping the instruments, badges and the bits that would have been impossible or difficult to reproduce in order to pocket the insurance money, which never happened. He eventually spent 2 1/2/years in jail. He actually rebuilt the 3 cars from scratch before selling them for a small fortune. So, should these 3 rebuilt cars be considered originals? The humorous part of that story in my view is he got caught because he got a divorce, and his ex-wife spilled the beans. Which somewhat validates my own saying: you never really know a woman until you get a divorce from her!
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It was written as an example that this happens at all levels, not just big-buck cars and that you need to be cautious.
- 43-44 GPW will fetch 40k while a Hotchkiss will possibly make 15 ā Or more, but will be harder to sell without the WWII pedigree
- 67 Cooper S will nowadays possibly make 50k (or more), a usual (visually identical) 1275 maximum 25ā¦
- Alu XK, maybe 250k, Steel, 125ā¦
And you go onā¦ at any segment, you need to be careful.
Best,
Ll.
Iām waiting for the day that this happens to P6 Roversā¦ 
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The presentation of this car leaves a lot to be desired. Somewhat inexplicably, the seller has not uploaded any photos of the identification numbers except for the ID plate. The underside photos of another car have now been taken down, but no underside photos of the actual car are provided. The seller is reputed to be the long-time ownerās son, who represented that he personally replaced the clutch, only to later state that it was replaced in the 1960s when the car was still running. Perhaps none of this matters since an alloy car is still highly desirable, but it would be nice to have better information on such a unique car.
He is only hurting his bottom line on the sale, bidders will be reluctant to continue if they feel something is not right. I recently provided some proof for a seller, and the bidders that on a certain modern car auction on BaT that was stalled due to a known defect that did not apply to the car for sale. (Factory documentation) Many bidders had dropped out and stated so because they did not want to take a chance on a major repair bill. The bidding frenzy at the end including the drop-outs netted the seller many thousands of dollars more and quite a few over what these cars are currently selling for.
Im sure most of you have been following the comments on the BaT 120 offering. They soon began the debate about what the cost of a 100 point restoration would be which then veered off to comments regarding enthusiasts who do most of the restoration themselves and those who simply write checks and have the work done by someone else. The final result is what is important. You can be a car lover without ever lifting a tool. Although money (a different kind of tool) plays a big part in buying, restoring, maintaining and owning these vehicles. I feel after reading thousands of comments on this forum that the vast majority of us are true car enthusiasts and not particularly profit (money) enthusiasts. What really bothers me about these individuals who āhijackā our (meaning car guys, craftsmen, restoration shops, antique and classic car parts suppliers etc.) passion for classic cars is that they counterfeit vehicles purely for profit and ego. The fact that they took bits and pieces and created an entire beautiful car is great, it keeps the above mentioned in business, but just donāt try and pass it off as authentic.
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The seller has found and posted the chassis number stamped in front of the radiator.
Also the engine number.
There seems to be no grounds to doubt that this is the legitimate 670066, and that the LXS129 is a fake.
BTW previously there had been several pictures inadvertently posted in the auction that were of the underside of an XK140 including showing the steel oil pan. Those have been removed and some new pix of the underside of this 670066 posted showing the cast aluminum oil pan.
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Just out of curiosity, what is involved in restoring the body on the alloy cars? My understanding is that there is a wood frame under the rear body work. Can the rear metal be removed and saved? Once off, should all the wood structure be replaced or rebuilt? Does not seem like a task for the weak of heart.