I have been having some brake binding issues and wonder what to look at next.
Initially I noticed that the back wheels were quite hot compared to the fronts - too hot to keep your hand in contact with. I have a new flexible pipe for the back brakes, so I thought it might be the anti creep solenoid (car is a 3.4 Auto). I never thought the anti-creep worked, but when I disconnected the wires to it - I saw how it had been working all these years. This seemed to solve the problem, until today ā¦
Today had a nice run down the A30/A303 to Exeter in the pouring rain. On the way back, stopped in traffic, when I got going again the car would not pull up the hill, seemed to be straining, almost like the handbrake was on - when I tapped the brake peddle it freed off and we continued as normal. After this I noticed that the brakes seem to be slow to release a couple of times, and the pedal seems to be less hard than it was. When I stopped, the back brakes were again very hot to touch and had a slight burning brake smell. The fronts seem normal.
I have quite new (less than 3000 miles) calipers front and back (Zeus upgrade) and have just replaced the servo.
All I can think of is
New flexible hose to back brakes is faulty and swelling?
Anti-creep is jamming, even with no electrical connections?
Something wrong with master cylinder (only part I have not replaced) but would that affect the back brakes only?
I have the same problem with my V8-250 - but only when hot so, because of that and the work Iāve already done, I suspect the servo.
Iāve freed off the rear hydraulic brakes - one (the new one!! ) cylinder was seized - and the handbrake pivots which were also seized. Iāve changed the rear flexible brake pipe and (fortunately as it happens) the metal pipe that runs from the front to the back of the car while I was at it. The front flexible pipes were changed not that long ago by a previous owner.
Now the brakes donāt heat up noticeably so I donāt know if the problem is with one wheel or all of them.
When the the car has run for 15 miles or more, when I apply the brakes gently at traffic lights or a road junction they donāt release for abut 10 seconds or so. As they have only been applied gently I can drive off but you can feel them dragging then after about 10 seconds you can feel them release and the car surges forwards. If I stamp on the brake pedal they release immediately.
I donāt think the Daimler has an anti-creep device. If it does could someone tell me where it is and I might change it. The car will creep if the brakes arenāt binding, which is what I would expect and Iāve never heard of car with an anti-creep device.
I have read that there is a valve in the servo which is known to fail and cause this fault - does anyone know more about this? I donāt think my back will allow me to get to the servo but if I can get the part & tell my local garage exactly what to do I might get a result!
Iād look at the servo.The small T-regulating valve can stick. Complete rubber A sets are available . Reconditioning is not difficult.There is lots of info about on the internet.
Robert, is your V8-250 an automatic? The anti-creep solenoid is a cylindrical thing in the brake line to the rear - right next to the intermediate hold solenoid. I have a DG150 auto box - not sure if yours is the same.
Dirk, the servo is brand new, I wonder if I have a bad one, as this only started after changing the servo - the old one was leaking. I did not take it apart, just sent as back as the new one was an exchange from SNG Barratt. Any idea how to check the servo? I tried the standard method of pumping the brakes until solid and then starting the engine, and everything seems to be normal?
I might start with the flexible pipe to the rear axle, while it is also new - maybe the new ones are bad - might replace with a braided one.
A search for ācreepā brings up nothing in the V8-250 section of SNG Barrattās website and āantiā brings up lots of things but not an anti-creep device.
Google says Borg Warner have patented an anti creep device for cars and it lives in the braking system. But presumably it must be activated somehow by the auto 'box otherwise it would have nothing to do with Borg Warner. If it lives in the braking system and is activated by the 'box there must be a flexible pipe connecting the two but there is nothing on the part of my braking system that runs from the front to the rear of the car, which was recently replaced along with the rear flexible pipe, and I guess that because of the physical layout of the car it would act on just the rear brakes and therefore connect somewhere along that front-to-rear pipe.
But Iām guessing a lot and hardly any the wiser - can someone explain what itās all about & how it all works and where it all lives?
And should there be one on my 1968 Daimler V8-250 auto?
I have no idea if there should be one on a V8-250 Auto.
It is part of the braking system, goes on when you stop and released when the accelerator is pressed, there is a switch on the carburetors on mine.
Here is a picture of mine in the brake line going back to the rear axle, alongside the auto box.
Obviously the liquid doesnāt return well to the master cyl. The fact that when You tap the brake pedal shortly when it happens indicates that it could sit in the master cylinder. But I would expect the front brakes to show seizure as well.
Can You acces the bleed screw when the car is on the road? If so and when the seizing happens,let the overpressure out of the cylinder,the seizure should disappear immediately.Try on the front and rear cylinders. If the rears are seizing and You can release pressure at the front cyl. with good results, the problem sits in either the booster or master cylinder.
Take the vacuum off the booster and block the rubber tube. Drive the car without booster (cautiously) to see if it happens again.
Success!
Thanks for the ideas. The Daimler certainly doesnāt have anything like David has.
Unfortunately, even if they were accessible, by the time you could get to the bleed nipples the brakes would have released anyway.
Next thing to try is the small T-regulating valve - if I can find somebody who knows the cars they can replace that and while the servo is out perhaps have a look at the steering box as I am fairly sure itās not as sharp in the straight-ahead position as is should be. I really need to have the opportunity to drive some others to see how mine compares. The only other ones I have driven were two that a dealer had for sale when I was looking for mine, and they were both horrible !
You could also release pressure by unscrewing a line slightly at the bridge where the break light switch is on the front inner right wing.
Or at the master cyl. exit:if releasing pessure there helps is is clearly a M/Cyl. fault.
I had the same problem on my '66 3.8S. the brakes would not release until I tapped the pedal again. I clamped off the vacuum to the servo booster which helped and then I got the servo rebuilt, and the problem disappeared.
hi there bobtills did you come to the end of your rear brake problem (the thread seems to end at august) ā¦I have the same prob with my rear brakes on 1963 v8ā¦I am going to look for this anti creep valve on mine as that never occurred to me ā¦my symptoms exactly the sameā¦ new rear calipers (series 2 xj6) and new flex hose. I cant see how the booster or master cylinder could affect the rear only
Not really - as with many other āfaultsā it seems to have disappeared as I continue to use the car - it had very little use for years before I bought it. Although as the fault only showed when thoroughly warmed up maybe it will come back in the summer!
There is a mystery regarding the anti-creep as there is no mention of it in my manual and the car certainly doesnāt have one - so maybe itās only the Jaguars that have it? But thatās a bit weird.
I am due to take the steering box off around about Christmas time and canāt make up my mind whether to send the servo off at the same time as access will be easier. I think I will leave it but Iām not really sure.
thanks robert ā¦I have been under my '63 v8 definitely no anti creep valve same as you . I know for sure mine is rear brake only problem I repaired my booster and dont suspect it to be my problem I fitted new calipers to front and re-built series two calipers at rear ā¦for youā¦ if you give me a few days I will try and remember as much as I can about how the booster worked and adviseā¦ now . you mentioned your steering. is yours power or manual .? you state it is not āsharpā in straight ahead position .do you mean too much play at the steering wheel ? . is it wandering ? ā¦or after direction changing does not return well ā¦?.very happy to help with that and very happy for you to come and drive mine ā¦are you in australia cause if youre not thatāll be hardā¦cheers
I changed the rear flexible brake pipe because people were saying that they collapse internally and cause the binding problem but it made no difference at all. But I am glad I did it because the man doing it for me (I canāt get underneath mine!!!) found that the metal front-to-rear brake pipe was corroded behind the brackets that hold it to the car and he replaced the entire length. He showed the old one to me, we bent it and it broke in two. Lucky me!!
The steering is manual but apart from being heavy and a bit āwoollyā in the straight-ahead position it works very well - it doesnāt stiffen on lock and self-centres nicely. It passed its MOT but I just think that if it was a bit sharper I wouldnāt have to concentrate so hard when driving and would enjoy it more. And since the MOT the gaiter has split so it has to come off to replace this anyway.
I wish we had this conversation a year ago as I was in Australia last February but back home in Wales now (not New South ) Maybe we could meet with our cars half way - India maybe?
I had a similar problem on my Mk2 recently. The brakes would be reluctant to disengage immediately but would clear after a few seconds even while stationary. In other words the release was sluggish.
Having changed the solenoid air valve and after much thinking I concluded that the fault was probably due to sticking of the small piston that operates the air valve in the servo.
I had bought the servo in 2015 as the replacement style.
Rather that investigate and clean things up with a repair kit I simply bought a new one from SNG Barratt.
This solved the problem.
It was a nicely made unit built in the UK and had Lockheed name on the cylinder.
The one I took out was clearly an offshore product, it did not have the Lockheed name on the cylinder, and only had two fixing studs rather than the three it should have had. Still it had lasted for four years and about 8000 miles.
I am not familiar with the Daimler versions but I believe the anti-creep system was only fitted to the DG gearbox versions. This thread appears to encompass more than one fault, a fault in the anti-creep system will only affect the rear brakes, as with handbrake cables and handbrake mal-adjustment.
In any event on an anti- creep system the rear brakes would not release by slackening any brake pipe upstream of the anti-creep solenoid, Part No:- C12750. To check the unlock situation you would need to slacken a brake line joint between the solenoid and rear calliperās. Remember to fire up the anti-creep system you need the ignition ON.
For one moment let us assume you have a problem with the anti-creep, the usual troubles would be:ā
Adjustment needed on the anti-creep throttle switch Part Noā¦C15270 or switch broken. This switch is mounted on a bracket adjacent to the throttle linkage.
Anti Creep Solenoid Part No:- C12750 broken, this is mounted on the chassis brake line roughly at the rear of the gearbox.
If you suspect the Anti-Creep system, buy a Service Manual for 3.4 / 3.8 S Type 1963-1968, available second handā¦.check the following pagesā¦
P49 Wiring diagram incorporating the Anti-Creep system.
FF13 and FF14 showing the Anti-Creep system and switch adjustment.
F3 explaining how the system works.
Just double check the adjustment of the handbrake pads and particularly check that the outer handbrake cable is not too short.
If you have to change the brake servo I strongly recommend you change the master cylinder AND the brake fluid reservoirs, both are very good at feeding rubber debris into the servo.
Interesting, as I have also recently encountered a similar problem on my '67 Mark 2 with brakes reluctant to disengage immediately, especially on very warm days, though I cannot furnish any proof weather had anything to do with it. Hereās what fascinates me, though. I also replaced my servo in 2015, and actually purchased it from SNG Barratt as well. As this problem seems to only occur occasionally, usually when stopped at a traffic light, Iāve found the remedy to solve the problem is to remove my foot from the brake pedal & tap the pedal several times in rapid succession. Based upon your description, Iām now inclined to consider the problem in my car may also be due to a sticky piston which operates the air valve in the servo .Iāve driven the car more frequently last month, and the āstickingā problem occurs rarely. Perhaps these units just need to be āexercisedā more frequently.
Yes I also found that tapping the pedal a few times would release the brakes, so I think you have the same problem as I did.
I looked up the company whose name was on the new box and it said that they are the inheritors (or something like that) of Lockheed and other UK parts makers.
