Car won't start


(Big Michael) #1

Hi there!

My 2002 S-Type has been running fine until this morning. My wife parked it last outside last night, where it is often parked. This morning it wouldn’t start. Engine turns over nicely but not a hint of spark.
We’ve had some serious rain here the past few days, but we’ve had serious rain before with no incidents.
Where do I begin?
Thank you!
Michael


(Rob Reilly) #2

I always start with fuses and relays. It may be that you are getting spark but no fuel.
Is there a lot of water in the trunk? Drain it. There is a green/white wire in the right rear light region that has been known to dangle down in the water and short things. Tie it up out of the way so it can’t do any mischief.
It is leftover from a transit isolation relay that was or should have been removed upon arrival at the first dealer.


(motorcarman) #3

Is the PATS light blinking???

Turn the KEY-ON-ENGINE-OFF and watch the PATS light.
If it blinks rapidly for a while and then blinks a CODE, determine the fault from the PATS CODE list.


(Big Michael) #4

Hi Bob!

I rented a fuel pressure tester from the local parts store, hooked it up to the appropriate Schrader valve on the fuel rail, cranked the engine several times and got a zero reading on the pressure tester. Dare I presume we have a fuel delivery problem? :slight_smile:
Using the info in my owners manual, I checked the fuel related fuses and all appeared to be good. The owners manual, however, gives me no info regarding relays. Can anyone tell me which relays I need to check and where they are located? Also, if there are multiple relays in question, are they all the same. If they are, my plan would be to buy a new one and replace each relay, one at a time, until the car starts.
Thanks again for your help!
Michael


(Big Michael) #5

Hi there!
Thank you for your suggestion. However, I don’t know what the PATS light is and I have misplaced my OBDII
gizmo. I plan to find or replace the gizmo, so what is the PATS light.
Thank you!
Michael


(Rob Reilly) #6

This fuse box is in the trunk in front of the battery.
image
Try relay #6. I believe it is a common type available at any auto parts store.


(motorcarman) #7

This an excerpt from my student guide INTRO to the X200

The passive anti-theft system
System Description
The security system is controlled by a driver door
control module (DDCM). When activated
unauthorized entry in to the vehicle is detected by
the courtesy lamp switches. When the alarm is
triggered, the system flashes the turn signal lamps
and sounds the alarm system horns.
The passive anti-theft system (PATS) is a feature to
prevent the vehicle being driven away by an
unauthorized person. The PATS system consists of
electronically coded keys, a transceiver and is
controlled by the Instrument Pack. When the
ignition is switched to position II the transceiver
energises the ignition key to read its electronic code
that is transmitted back. If the read code
equals a stored code in the control module, the
steering column is unlocked and the powertrain
control module (PCM) will let the engine start.
Otherwise, starting of the engine is disabled
(through the starter disable relay and the PCM).
The security indicator LED provides the driver
with the status of the PATS or security system. If
the security system is armed the light will flash
when the ignition is switched OFF. The PATS light
will illuminate when the key is inserted into the
ignition lock and turned to position II It will stay
illuminated until the system has carried out its test
on the key. If the system detects a fault, it will
flash the LED for 1 minute, and then flash out the
corresponding 2 digit fault code.

The PATS LED is located on the top center of the dash near the windscreen.

bob


(Big Michael) #8

Hi Bob!

Thank you. I will give it a try.

Michael


(Big Michael) #9

Hi Rob!
I just squinted hard enough to see that your name is Rob, not Bob.
Thanks for answering my questions anyway. :slight_smile:
Michael


(Big Michael) #10

Hi Bob!

Thank you for expanding my horizons significantly. :slight_smile:
Michael


(Neil Bennett. Patron) #11

This may help you, check the last 4 or 5 pages:

http://www.jagrepair.com/images/TSB/TSB2/S-Type/419Electronic%20Features/S419-12%20Passive%20Anti%20-Theft%20System.pdf


(Eric Capron) #12

I can’t open the jagrepair link but I haven’t been able to access the jagrepair site for months now. It just times out.
However, thinking about the initial problem, I am not sure that it could be PATS (security) related because the engine cranks and it’s pretty clear that if there isn’t any fuel pressure the fuel pump isn’t running. So as Rob has suggested, starting at the fuel pump relay is a good place.

You could just replace it but before buying anything I would pull the relay and check, with the ignition switched on, to see that you have around 12 volts between pin 1 and ground. This is the feed that energises the relay and comes from the ignition switch via the inertia switch.

There should also be 12 volts on pin 3 of the relay. If either if these are missing the fuel pump will not run.

There are other reasons why it might not run but this is where I would start. BTW I have used the wiring diagram for a 2000 V8 NA spec car. I know your car is 2002 but I don’t have access to my 2002 electrical guide at present but I doubt there are many differences.

Eric
Shropshire, UK


(Big Michael) #13

Hi Eric!

Thank you for your sound advice!
Yesterday, full of self satisfied optimism, I removed the fuel pump
relay and switched it with another relay from the fuse panel. It was
the same as the fuel pump relay, but performing a function unrelated
to fuel delivery. I fully expected the car to start right up. Not!
So, Eric, your advice couldn’t have come at a better time. Thanks again!

Michael
Quoting Eric Capron via Jag-lovers Forums noreply@jag-lovers.com:


(Big Michael) #14

Hi there, again!
I have power to pin #1, but not to pin #3.
What do I look for now?
Thank you!
Michael


(Rob Reilly) #15

image
29 goes to fuse #17 in the rear fuse box.
13 goes to the inertia switch and fuse #4 in the primary fuse box in the right hand kick panel.
Check fuse 17 first.
image


(Eric Capron) #16

I just had a look and there is a change for post facelift models (MY 2002.5). If your car is one of these, it is Fuse 23 that feeds the fuel pump relay.
Whichever it is, there should be 12 volts on both sides of the fuse!

Eric


(Big Michael) #17

Hi there!

Both fuse 17 and 4 are good. I even checked 23 for Eric. I assume the fuel pump is the only remaining culprit? Is there some way I can test it short of replacing it?
Thanks!
Michael


(Eric Capron) #18

Whoa! Let’s not jump to conclusions. On the assumption that your car is pre facelift (Jaguar badge on the bonnet rather than part of the grille) fuse 17 is the right one. You say it’s good. Do you mean that you pulled it and checked it or that you measured 12 volts on both sides of it? If the latter is true and you are sure that you don’t have power on pin 3 of the relay, since these two points are connected by a single wire, then the trouble is in the wiring between the fuse and the relay.

Eric


(Big Michael) #19

Hi Eric!

Regarding how I tested the fuses, I used a multi meter and got 11.08
volts on each side.

Regarding certainty as to no power on pin 3, I have interpreted that
the outside of the two pins is pin 1 and the inside is pin 3. The
diagram on the relay is not perfectly clear to me as to which is
which, so I could be wrong. In any event, I am certain that the inside
pin is receiving no power. I just went out and double checked
everything. :slight_smile:

I am ready for further instructions. :slight_smile:

Michael
Quoting Eric Capron via Jag-lovers Forums noreply@jag-lovers.com:


(Rob Reilly) #20

Why don’t they label these things?


Ok I get 24 Ohms between 2 and battery ground so I’m pretty sure it is #2. 1 and 2 power the coil so 1 must be at the bottom of the picture.
4 has no connector inside so that must be 4.
The three at the top of the picture must be 3 4 5 but I can’t tell which is 3 and which is 5.
1 should only have 12V when the key is on. Might be true of 3 as well.
You could jumper a wire across 3 and 5 and see if the car starts.
Don’t leave it in though, your fuel pump would always be on.