Can anyone please tell me if the item on eBay No. 4507587057 is
likely to be real. I thought there were only 10 of these in the
world and this one looks like a knock off but the bidding suggests
otherwise? In fact look at No. 2289443627 which is a reproduction.
I would appreciate any guidance please.
Iain Buxton–
1966 3.8 S-Type
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Hello Iain,On Thursday, December 2, 2004, 5:42:02 AM, you wrote:
Can anyone please tell me if the item on eBay No. 4507587057 is
likely to be real. I thought there were only 10 of these in the
world and this one looks like a knock off but the bidding suggests
otherwise? In fact look at No. 2289443627 which is a reproduction.
I would appreciate any guidance please.
I’ll post a reply I made on the pre-xk list about this (several replies
amalgamated)
=====
I’ve pulled out the camera and taken some pics to answer a few questions
here.
The Founders Badge (I have two originals) DOES have the city stamped on
its base, viz:
This is a very original Founders badge that I obtained privately some
years back, its condition is poor but I don’t intend having it restored.
Ian Cooling had his (which I now have) fully restored but it seems that in
the process, the city name was virtually obscured and left only the ‘B’ as
he observes in his book. It was only when I acquired the other one that
one could see that the full name had been there. Rechroming and wear had
obscured it on the other one.
Here is the restored Founders base:
As to the standard badge having the legend always embossed on the back - it
doesn’t. I have a very early badge belonging to one George Matthews who
raced SSs throughout the 30s and 40s and was also a great friend of
William Lyons. His badge has no legend anywhere. I know for certain it’s
his original badge partly by how I obtained it (he had left it to someone
else with a mass of other stuff including some wonderful SS trophies and
nicknacks and I bought that entire part of his estate) but also because it
had a large lump of some asphalty material on it that was very difficult
to remove. Lo and behold, there was also a 1930s original B/W photo
clearly showing the badge on his SS100 - complete with said black lump!
I also have four other originals - all these have the J Fray Ltd.
Birmingham notation clearly stamped into the rear face of the badge.
The only other badges I know of are the Maurdon Motors repro which has
that name stamped on to the rear face, but this has an incorrect base as
Ed knows (vertical sides rather than the curve of the original). Plus Ed’s
excellent fake, sorry repro,which has everything correct including the
base but no makers stamp anywhere.
The ones currently on eBay I believe are all the oversize BARACAT copies
that you can buy almost anywhere these days for $15 and up. They also did
a Founders version recently. They of course have no base. They are also
much larger than a standard badge - see this side-by-side:
Plus the cream enamel is too yellow, the letters SS are in gold not silver
and the narrow part of the letter S (top left for example) is about twice
the relative width it should be. Another big giveaway is that these
oversize BARACAT badges have the edges of the feather chrome pattern
CURVED - on the original badge they are almost dead straight (like on the
picture of Ed’s I posted)…
Here’s the back of the BARACAT one:
And now the one on eBay…
eBay Item number: 4507587057
Well, as he says, that is definitely original and new - but it isn’t
period. It’s 100% an original new BARACAT $15 badge. It doesn’t take more
than a glance at that eBay pic to see the sides of the feathered part are
curved.
Here’s my very original (think this has seen a lot of road service!)
period SS Founders badge for comparison:
http://www.tbpics.com/sscf.jpg
Someone is gonna be very unhappy… You’d likely be lucky to get your
hands on an original for under $2000 these days.
Tony
(West Sussex, UK) ['04 X-Type 2.5 SE Estate]
Jag-lovers Web Site/Forums Technical Admin and Collectibles Admin
Jaguar Brochure Library: http://www.jag-lovers.org/brochures/
Jaguar Collectibles on eBay: http://www.jaguarmemories.com/
Jaguar D-Type Thrills on DVD! http://www.xkd505.com/
Lots of Jaguar Racing etc Pics: http://www.tbpix.com/
In reply to a message from Tony Bailey sent Thu 2 Dec 2004:
Sir Tony,
I am extremely thankful for the lesson you have given me! For you
interest, the original offending eBay item was just relisted and
the note added regarding it not being original has resulted in the
same auction ending time but a far lower bid price. I am hopeful
that no buyer was hurt.
I am fearful that I have been the victim of a similar hoax. I saw
and wanted an item on eBay that I thought was being represented as
NOS. It is a Jaguar Owners Association badge. Now that I have
sent $177.00 to the seller, I see another one (2290078556)
currently at $28. A painful lesson I fear.
Thank you again for the insight.
Respectfully,
Iain Buxton
Reno, Nevada, USA–
1966 3.8 S-Type
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