Cylinder head leak

The diffrence in the water ways ! s-l16006G161EOG

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Ian, do they need to be locked, would this be safer or is Paul right with his suggestion to use the correct head gasket… any safety benefits to closing them or is the head gasket safe enough here? I‘m certain that if Paul says it worked for him it will work.

It looks almost like gallium (I think) poisoning… traces on the bolt? Overheating or two joining cracks can’t do that, can it? And overtightening would surely cut the threads first? The head doesn’t look too happy in general. The XJ6 head is the best way to repair that.

Yes the 2 holes in the head do need to be blocked , I have never done it , would not trust just a gasket , guess there is a few ways , interference fit rod of alloy , tap a thread and use a grub screw , maybe extrema heat J-B , not sure about welding them up , may distort the head , but I don’t know !

Tap it a bspt thread and stick some taper plugs in the extra water holes.

Bram,
I keep a detailed notebook on each of my Jaguars while working on them. I also post the details some of my success stories on Jag-Lovers. So there is a record of what I did when I swapped out the failed original E-Type head with one from my 1985 XJ6 Vanden Plas parts car.

I will look for that notebook and search the archives to identify exactly what I did. I don’t recall doing anything permanent to the XJ6 head because I wanted to keep it as a known good spare once I got the original head rebuilt. So other than using the correct gasket for the block I don’t remember doing anything about those water passageways.

I have a busy today so I may not be able to get back for a day or two. But I will post back with exactly what I did from my notebook and locate a Jag-Lovers post or two as references

Paul

I’ve heard tell of such a practice…:wink:

Bram,
I just searched the Jag-Lovers and found numerous emails that I posted in 2010 and 2011 period about the misfire in my 1969 E-Type FHC and how I fixed it. I just replied to one email that I posted in February 2011 with the subject line “1969 E-Type misfire fixed with head from 1985 XJ6”.

That reply should show up shortly in the XK Engine list, but in case it doesn’t this subject is what you should seach for in the Jag-Lovers archives.

Paul

Bram, you mentioned in your original post that this was the original head for your car.
If it is a case of matching numbers and concours and you have a strong desire to retain the original head, sometimes in some cases these things can be repaired by an expert welder. Some very valuable heads have been saved this way. As I said before, it would mean grinding out all the corroded metal and filling in with new welding rod. Its a slow process where you want to avoid heat distortion so you need an expert, not something for a novice welder to learn on.
Just suggesting an alternative to keep in the back of your mind after you have it off and can evaluate it better.

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Rob,
I know that matching numbers is important to some people but it is completely irrelevant in Jaguar Clubs of North America (JCNA) concours.

Although the JCNA Judges evaluate the Entries engine for authenticity to the model being judged, they do not note in any way any serial number on the Entry being judged nor are any deductions taken for serial number issues. There is no place on the score sheets for noting serial numbers.

I only mention because it seems to be a common misconception that matching numbers means something in JCNA concours. I can’t speak to other car club shows and I am not addressing the notion that matching numbers might mean something of value to collectors.

Paul

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In Australian Concours, we do record Chassis, Engine, Body and Gearbox numbers, and verify them matching against a JDHT Certificate if car is presented with a reproduction Chassis Plate or indeed no Chassis Plate. WE do check HEAD Engine Number stamped in, and often/not always BLOCK Engine Number, as if these are both OK, then we accept we are looking at an ‘original’ thus our Judging criteria ‘authentic engine’ in then expected most all respects. If we have a non-matching Number we then look closer at everything, to make sure all items are ‘authentic’ for age/model of Jaguar judged, and if everything checks out OK no points deducted apart from an arbitrary 5 points only for the mismatched engine number stamping. But a mismatched Engine Number does usually indicate many other possible major or minor problems, that can accumulate to a huge deduction, but if the engine number is close to original - same model for example, then good chance no other problems, so only the arbitrary 5 point loss, which is no big deal for us as even our very very top cars still don’t score much more that say 96.00 to 97.00 points, with no expectation, of an unrealistic 100.0 point car.

The beauty, if that’s your interest, in a matching numbers car, is if you don’t have correct matching engine/gearbox, you are at least motivated to source all the correct for age/model parts - so right head casting, right block casting, right cam covers, right manifolds and carburetters etc etc, with the mismatch number stamping minimal impact, albeit wrong numbers, can be removed and correct ones stamped in their place.

But the value aspect is more set by what buyers want, and not what Concours Rules expect or don’t expect. Many of our BEST cars never see a Concours, and are simply not interested, but many such owners still strive for 100% without the need for a Concours Judges opinion.

But locally, for two XKs side by side of equal condition and equal model/spec desirability (so impossible comparison), I would say the non-matching numbers XK would be worth/realise $10000 +/- less than a matching numbers car, and a greater amount for 3.8 and 4.2 E-types. But that’s my opinion on our local scene. Lesser models less so, and indeed bottom end of cars/market no difference.

Let others comment about North America and UK but will be equally subjective opinion, as you rarely see two otherwise comparable cars for sale at same time.

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I think 69 is the changeover year where no number is stamped on the head?

The OP engine does not appear to have numbers stamped on the head front valley

I put a later XJ head on my ( '69 tri-carb 420G… I think the '69 head was a numbered )

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Bit off track but , if there was 2 E-types , about the same condition , one is as it left the factory , all but a engine number , and the other one had matching numbers , but had about $60.000 of patten parts on it , what would be worth the most !

Don’t think you can justify spending out on the cost to fix the head , no disrespect but it’s nothing special , like a C or D Type , just keep it to go with the car !

Thanks all for offering solutions. I’ve read them all and made the conclusion to swap the cylinder head. I’ve bought a head from a friend that seems to be the same except for two cooling passages in the back. See photo’s attached. Also the stamped letter on the valley is different (old head A and new head N). Inlet and outlet valves are the same in diameter.

So, these missing water passages, will this be a problem for the last cylinder (heat problems)?

!
Old head (above)

Bram,
I need to know more about your engine before providing any more suggestions.

What is the Serial number of your engine? Since your car is a 1969 it is is most likely stamped at the rear of the block near the oil dip stick. If it is not there it will be stamped on the block on the right side of the engine on a flat horizontal area just above the oil filter.

Can you post a picture of the top of your engine block showing the coolant passages?

Paul

Are you saying that the old head (to you) had these passages and the new one doesn’t?
And thus that your question is whether the block with matching ‚extra‘ passages needs modification?
The carboned head (which I for now assume is your broken one) seems to come off one of the later 4.2s because of what seems like slots between the cylinders. But not from a SIII probably as the valves are similar, and the coolant plugs are not simple steel caps. That slot imprint could have been from the gasket though, I‘m far from being an expert on this, and your block shouldn’t have that, correct? And you knowing that the heads with extra holes work on a block with no extra holes makes me wonder why you asked that question?

David,
I was wondering much the same thing. That is why I asked Bram for a picture of the top of the block and the serial number of the block.

There is a bit of a mystery here.

Paul

Paul,
I found my notebook for my E-Type and noted that sometimes my notes are more noteworthy than at other times. I will take note of that. :slight_smile:

I knew that I needed a lot of help from Jag-Lovers as I worked through the E-Type cylinder head swap so the “cookie crumbs” were there in the E-Type and XK engine Jag-Lovers archives but not so much in my notebook. :wink:

Paul

Sorry for the missing information. Bit of a language gap… I’m dutch… But let me try to clarify the mystery.

Ok, the SN of my block is 7R2252-9. The number was above the oil filter.

So my old head (with carbon soot) has extra coolant passages. And my question is: Does my new cilinderhead need modification to work good on my engine. Do I need to drill the missing holes?

Below a photo of the engine from a few years back.

Bram,
Your English is very good, and much better than my Dutch would be. :slight_smile:

Based on the pictures I would say that the engine block Serial number appears to be correct for your car however the leaky head that was on it was from a much later car. The replacement head that you have appears to be correct to mount on the block without any modification of the coolant passages. One way to confirm this is to place the correct cylinder head gasket for your block on the block and then on the bottom of the cylinder head. If the holes in the cylinder head match up then you should be OK to use the replacement head that you just got on your original block.

Others who know more will hopefully chime in.

It is interesting to note that the use of a newer 4.2L cylinder head on your older original 4.2L block as I was suggesting had already been done on your engine.

Paul

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No language problem at all, I’m German myself and probably have my own share of errors. Definitely no worries about the old head; it couldn’t have come from the factory like that. What made you assume it was matching numbers? The new one will probably fit much better in fact! Although the reason for failure would be interesting. Could be that it was never intended for the bolts and someone really threw it together badly.
I think the head will fit right in without modification. Always ensure to skim the timing cover with the block should you need to reface it. I don’t know about the surface rust on the guides. Maybe fine.
Also, that is a pretty block. (Paul, did you blast or spray your head with aluminium or how did you get it this pretty; in the other thread? Neat in any case).
David



Wait; I just looked at the engine block again and it does have the passages as well, doesn’t it - um, I’m confused. In this case Paul and I were wrong in this and the previous post. Maybe, just maybe your whole engine is ‘dropped in’ and not matching numbers at all, or we all were wrong about the extra passages coming later; but I don’t think so.- which must imply that your engine is not original. Which should lead to the question - did coolant flow change in later engines, requiring extra holes or were they just added as an extra loop at the back? My guess is that it is just a loop and can be left out, but an expert opinion is worth a lot more.