I have a 1982 Daimler DS 420 hearse with a 4.2 straight 6 Daimler
lump, which is identical to the 4.2’s in Jaguars of the same
vintage. I would like to swap the 4.2 for a Jaguar or Daimler V12
of aproximately the same year, and I have been told that it is a
straightforward changeover as both engines use the exact same
transmission (GM400) and engine mounts. Does anybody have any
experience or info on a 4.2 to 5.3 V12 retrofit? Anything in
particular I should be aware of? Space would definitely not be a
problem as the engine bay is HUGE and half empty in both height,
lenght and width. My e-mail is @moezic Any
advice would be greatly appreciated.–
MoeZic
London, United Kingdom
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I have a 1982 Daimler DS 420 hearse with a 4.2 straight 6 Daimler
lump, which is identical to the 4.2’s in Jaguars of the same
vintage. I would like to swap the 4.2 for a Jaguar or Daimler V12
of aproximately the same year, and I have been told that it is a
straightforward changeover as both engines use the exact same
transmission (GM400) and engine mounts.
You’ve been given a bum steer then. The 4.2L 6cylinder uses the Borg
Warner 65 and 66 (depending on year - yours will have the BW66).
Similarly the engine mounts aren’t the same. You’ll need to fabricate some.
Does anybody have any
experience or info on a 4.2 to 5.3 V12 retrofit?
You’ll need to sort out the speedo drive (should be electronic if it’s
the same as the XJ6 of the same era) which is driven off the gearbox,
the tacho, the powersteering will need to be aligned to the drive belts
and pulley ratios will need to be checked, yada yada yada the usual
stuff if you’re doing an engine swap really. None of this is impossible,
and given the amount of engine bay room you have to work with it’s a lot
easier than for example the Mk2 V12 swap I saw pics of.
I suggest you go over to the lumps list on Jag-lovers, aside from trying
to convince you to put a chev into it, they should be able to point out
the main things to consider.
JL
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In reply to a message from John Littler sent Mon 16 May 2005:
The 1982 Daimler DS420 definitely used the GM 400 gearbox.
A few years before they changed from Borg Warner 12 (still
earlier they had BW8). See the following page from a 1980
DS420 Owner’s manual: Owner's Manual AKM8090 Ed.1 (1980) pp72(l)
but I have no experience with an engine swap…
Hendrik-Jan Thomassen–
The original message included these comments:
You’ve been given a bum steer then. The 4.2L 6cylinder uses the Borg
Warner 65 and 66 (depending on year - yours will have the BW66).
Well I’ll be st*ffed ! I sit corrected ! That’s the only instance of a
GM400 on an XK6 I’ve ever heard of - silly me for making assumptions ! I
guess they were worried about the BW65/66 standing the strain of the
bigger car.
JL
Hendrik-Jan Thomassen wrote:
In reply to a message from John Littler sent Mon 16 May 2005:
The 1982 Daimler DS420 definitely used the GM 400 gearbox.
A few years before they changed from Borg Warner 12 (still
earlier they had BW8). See the following page from a 1980
DS420 Owner’s manual: Owner's Manual AKM8090 Ed.1 (1980) pp72(l)
but I have no experience with an engine swap…
Hendrik-Jan Thomassen
The original message included these comments:
You’ve been given a bum steer then. The 4.2L 6cylinder uses the Borg
Warner 65 and 66 (depending on year - yours will have the BW66).
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In reply to a message from moezic sent Mon 16 May 2005:
AS the DS 420 was based on the MKX/420G your best first bet would
be to see if the JDHT retaind the notes on the factory install
which is documented in Skilleter’s ‘‘Jaguar Saloon Cars’’ p316 of the
1980 version.–
George Camp
Columbia SC, United States
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Why put a big lump like the V 12 in when you could put the lighter aluminium
V8 from the Majestic Major in have less weight in the engine bay therefore a
better power to weight ratio. Jaguar did it as an experiment when they took
over Daimler and it is said the car was significanly faster than the MK 10
but the jaguar engine was cheaper to make.–
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A DS420 limo - and thinking about better power to weight ratios! If any sort
of ‘normal’ performance criteria are an aim, start with a smaller car, plus
the V8, while a good engine is rated at 220bhp and 283ft lb. The V12 in efi
HE SIII spec is good for 295bhp and 320ft lb, so even if weight were a big
factor in the equation, the extra output would still tip the power to weight
factor in the V12 favour.
The 5.3 V12 is actually all alloy (block & heads) and probably lighter than
a 4.5 Major V8.
I’d suggest that the Major V8 is going to be a much rarer and expensive
thing to find and rebuild / maintain than a V12, which will be newer.
Certainly in Aus, a Major V8 would not enter into the mind of anyone
thinking of repowering a DS420 (which are rare enough here anyway) unless
you already had a known good engine lying about - a small block Chev V8
conversion would be much easier if a V8 was what you wanted to do.
The story about the Major V8 into Mk10 Jag is interesting. If the
comparitave Mk10 was a 3.8litre version, then that engine was capable of
220bhp (as in the mid 1960’s S type) and when in tripple carby 4.2litre form
in E-type / 420G, 265bhp, so in outright speed, a Major V8 powered Mk10 is
unlikely to be much faster, although may have accelerated a bit faster.
Why not just tweek / upgrade the XK4.2 to get more power if needed?.
Rgs, MRV.----- Original Message -----
From: “Keith Kennils” kennils@lineone.net
To: daimlan@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 8:49 PM
Subject: RE: [DaimLan] retrofiting a 5.3 V12 into a DS420
Why put a big lump like the V 12 in when you could put the lighter
aluminium
V8 from the Majestic Major in have less weight in the engine bay therefore
a
better power to weight ratio. Jaguar did it as an experiment when they
took
over Daimler and it is said the car was significanly faster than the MK 10
but the jaguar engine was cheaper to make.
–
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The figure of 220bhp for the Majestic Major comes from the factory, and
is probably pessimistic because the scale on their dynamometer or
whatever you call it only went up to 220. I have not heard of anyone
re-doing the test properly. Well only Russ Carpenter with the 2.5 litre
version with supercharger and exotic fuel who got 1400bhp, but as it
was for a dragster it only had to run for seconds between rebuilds.
Anyway, how about the engine from a Daimler Super 8. I think its 370bhp.
Anyway it gives 0-60 in 5.4 seconds in the long wheelbase car with all
the optional extras as standard, so quite heavy.
Roger Holmes.On 21 Jun, 2005, at 05:36, Michael Vaughan wrote:
A DS420 limo - and thinking about better power to weight ratios! If
any sort
of ‘normal’ performance criteria are an aim, start with a smaller car,
plus
the V8, while a good engine is rated at 220bhp and 283ft lb. The V12
in efi
HE SIII spec is good for 295bhp and 320ft lb, so even if weight were a
big
factor in the equation, the extra output would still tip the power to
weight
factor in the V12 favour.
The 5.3 V12 is actually all alloy (block & heads) and probably lighter
than
a 4.5 Major V8.
I’d suggest that the Major V8 is going to be a much rarer and expensive
thing to find and rebuild / maintain than a V12, which will be newer.
Certainly in Aus, a Major V8 would not enter into the mind of anyone
thinking of repowering a DS420 (which are rare enough here anyway)
unless
you already had a known good engine lying about - a small block Chev V8
conversion would be much easier if a V8 was what you wanted to do.
The story about the Major V8 into Mk10 Jag is interesting. If the
comparitave Mk10 was a 3.8litre version, then that engine was capable
of
220bhp (as in the mid 1960’s S type) and when in tripple carby
4.2litre form
in E-type / 420G, 265bhp, so in outright speed, a Major V8 powered
Mk10 is
unlikely to be much faster, although may have accelerated a bit faster.
Why not just tweek / upgrade the XK4.2 to get more power if needed?.
Rgs, MRV.
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