…a couple of observations. I converted my '64 to a close ratio EJ syncho box during the initial restoration. I was interested in the closer gear spacing. At the same time I regeared the differential to a Dana 3.07. The EJ gear ratios were great for spirited driving, but I found the launch from standstill on an uphill grade required a fair amount of clutch slippage and throttle coordination. That transmission had not been reconditioned and it seemed noisy. When I found a rebuilt KE synchro transmission I decided to replace the EJ. The first gear launch from standstill and on hills is less cumbersome, although I do prefer the spacing in the EJ box. Tradeoffs…
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I called Coventry West on Friday. They don’t have any used diff’s and they aren’t rebuilding them right now because they’re moving their shop.
I found this thread with some comments about putting in a diff from an XJS
What year XJS diff would work?
I searched around for a diff rebuilding shop near me and no luck but I haven’t given up on that yet.
Dave
I believe Coventry West would inform you on what gears you need for your requirement…
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Boffo Motors in New Brighton, PA did mine and they did a good job. I used to live in Highland Park, IL and Imports Unlimited is a shop there that does great work as well - if you call ask for Dave Schaid, he is the owner.
Another shop that is great is Quantum Mechanics in Oxford, CT - John Esposito is the owner.
You could ship or drive your diff to any of those.
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Thanks Robert, I’ll give them a shout.
Dave
The early XJS Non HE used a 3.31 posi. Late 1979, they changed to a 3.07 but this is rather rare. Then the early HE’s had a 2.88. When they went to 4 speed automatic in 1993 (1994 for the V12), they changed to a 3.54. All XJS’s used a posi rear end.
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I got this reply from the Driven Man, when asking about their input shaft problems:
Morten,
Robert is out of the country with limited email access. At one time our supplier of input shafts did have an issue with their quality. We immediately suspended any purchases from them and changed suppliers. For at least the last 2 years there have been no issues with this supplier’s quality. As a side note, we have replaced every known defective input at no charge to our customers. I hope this reassures you thet The Driven Man will stand behind our products.
That’s impressive customer support.
An example worthy of emulation.
In fact when I ordered my 5 speed box, DM told me they could not supply due to this very problem.
I had to wait and re order before I got the kit.
A good friend of mine installed one in his e type with 3:54 diff.
He is very happy for it, but still it is a lot of hard earned money…
We’re converting an S3 2+2 from Auto to Manual using a T5 kit supplied by DM via the client, supplied well short of two ago and a First Motion Shaft that displays workmanship south of being acceptable.
One swallow doesn’t make a summer, nor two, but having seen two examples of welded First Motion Shafts in T5 kits supplied by the Driven Man company; one broken in two and the appearance on another, unproven example, of poorly carried out work, personally, I don’t have confidence in what the Driven Man offers.
The first example was the subject of a Thread on the JL Forum, where the weld had failed and roughly scaling the weld margin with the known diameter of the First Motion Shaft, it appeared to be circa 3 – 4mm.
The following pictures are of the First Motion Shaft supplied as part of an S3 E Type Auto to T5 conversion we are currently involved in, with all parts having already been sourced by the owner from the Driven Man.
The first two pictures show that the Weld Area of the First Motion Shaft has been machined post welding and the main reason for doing this is the same as to why one would polish a Con Rod, that being to remove stress risers responsible for possible cracking. What is seldom considered is that the “Toe” of the weld (the root of penetration) is also irregular and also responsible for weakening the weld joint.
The estimate from the pictures of the broken shaft featured on JL and measurement of the weld surface width of the First Motion Shaft at hand, put both at circa 3 – 4mm penetration. It then follows that the torque is being transferred from engine to gearbox, affectively by a 3 – 4mm wall thickness tube. At the OD of these shafts, this would, in most circumstances, be up to the task. But factor into that the irregular features of the weld toe, by my calculations, the strength of the shaft is reduced to circa one third of the one piece component.
The following two pictures are of damage to the teeth of the First Motion Shaft Gear. Bear in mind that this gearbox hasn’t turned one rev in anger yet.
The client was not happy to have a welded shaft and we wouldn’t have accepted the job had he continued with the welded shaft. We sourced a new shaft meant for a Ford Mustang for AUD 500.00 (USD 3.75), with machining the Spigot Journal to 0.499” being the only modification required. The Spline is a smaller diameter Ford square spline, for which we sourced, for not much money, a new, matching clutch plate that was compatible with the E Type clutch housing assembly.
The Driven Man makes a point in one of their Videos, that they supply a First Motion Shaft with the correct Jaguar Spine so that the standard E Type Clutch assembly can be used. Why? The gearbox is not standard to the E Type, so why stop there.
Oh, it must have been quite a dilemma for the Driven Man when deciding on the First Motion Shaft to use. Should they:
-
Prep two shaft sections for welding, including a centre dowel for alignment; it would not have contributed one iota to the torque rating of the shaft and shear strength is of little concern in this arrangement.
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Weld the two parts together
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Straighten after welding (you would stand a better chance of winning two lotteries on the trot, than this shaft not distorting during welding)
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Machine the weld area
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Machine the Spigot Journal to size
Or
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Use a Ford Mustang First Motion Shaft and only have to turn the Spigot Journal to size.
-
There are no subsequent steps
Regards,
Bill
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Very interesting Bill…… I remember in my old Riley there was an Achilles heal where the axel shaft went from shaft to spline without any thought about the engineering……. As a result they broke at the spline on such a regular basis that a mate of mine carried a broom stick and spare axel … he could change on the side of the road in under an hour by removing the non broken axel and pushing out the splined end and putting it all back together……… eventually there was a fix that used a slightly thicker shaft and then tapered down to the spline.
That’s bonkers. I always assumed the “Jaguar” 1st motion shaft and the Ford part must be very different in length.
That would be the the only logical explanation for going to that trouble, but apparently that’s not even the case….that’s nuts.
Likely the Driven Man didn’t do the research (or missed on it.) But even if there were no suitable part to adapt, I still don’t see why they can’t commission a custom manufacturer of transmission hard parts (such as Mark Williams in the USA) to build a custom input shaft.
Mark Williams, for example, will even do the design. And while not cheap, it shouldn’t be prohibitively expensive. Back in my GMC Typhoon days (only a decade ago) Typhoon owners commissioned Mark Williams to design and produce an input shaft to allow 4L80 transmissions to mate with the transfer case of the Typhoon (which had a 4L60 transmission with a different spline configuration.)
Purchased as a lot of 25, the price was ~$500 USD each. Not cheap, but I would think that if someone was serious about such an enterprise that wouldn’t be a prohibitive expense.
Unless the Driven Man kit is made of parts that can be fabricated on demand, so they don’t have to put much capital investment in the project. Then they would seek the lowest investment option available.
Dave
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Hello Dave,
Given that:
- I know that a Ford Mustang First Motion Shaft with the Spigot Journal machined to 0.499" and sourcing a clutch plate that is compatible with both the Ford Mustang Spline and the E Type Clutch Housing Assembly (readily available for AUD87.00) works.
and
- The rear section of two sections used in the welded construction First Motion Shaft in the gearbox of my focus was also from a Ford Mustang, as referred to in point 1
it seems extra stupid to go to all the work and associated cost required to prep, weld and finish a First Motion Shaft, when the original First Motion Shaft that was the donor for half the shaft could have been used with little input. If bean counting was a factor, they got that part awfully wrong; a lot of time and effort to turn a very suitable part into an inferior quality part. Sound like the ingredients of the making of a Joke.
Regards,
Bill
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Hasn’t the availability of good quality 1st motion shafts always been pointed to as the reason the JT5 has remained out of production?
If so, it seems the solution is very simple.
Hi Bill.
For sure dissapointing informations and absolutely not the kind of quality (or lack of) I expect buying from DM.
When I ordered my box they informed me about a problem concerning broken shafts from a sub supplier, and they could not supply the box.
I got mine January 2021, and I hope it is from a production where this problem was solved.
I think I will have the input shaft tested by ultrasound just to be sure.
Morten.
JT5 used a Ford input spline and clutch disk. I thought the problem was the output shaft.
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Does anyone know off hand what trans Classic Jaguar was selling for their 5 speed kit back in the early noughties?
Paul Cangiolosi (Medatronics) used a Mustang output shaft which had a 1 1/16” - 10 spline on the shaft as opposed to a Jaguar input shaft which is 1 1/8” - 10 spline. He sent a 9 1/2” Centerforce disc with that pattern that just bolted in. Don’t know why DM couldn’t do it, but folks can be funny. Hear it’s a Ford part going in and it’s inferior.
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