[E-Type] Fumes inside the cabin

Hi,
This is my first sting on this forum. I just got a 1973
xke coupe, oh what magnificent machine, and itis
perfect…I think I am I love. Now, the issue that I am
running into, other than my wife being jaleous, is that
car is sucking exaust fumes into the cabin. I suspect the
back port seal? Any way to test this teory? Did. Anybody
run into this problem?
Warm regards,–
CroJag
Los altos , Ca, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

Hi,
A leak in the exhaust line (around the muffler?) is the answer.
B
890697

Le 07/12/11 03:18, CroJag a �crit :> Hi,

This is my first sting on this forum. I just got a 1973
xke coupe, oh what magnificent machine, and itis
perfect…I think I am I love. Now, the issue that I am
running into, other than my wife being jaleous, is that
car is sucking exaust fumes into the cabin. I suspect the
back port seal? Any way to test this teory? Did. Anybody
run into this problem?
Warm regards,


CroJag
Los altos , Ca, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives& forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from CroJag sent Tue 6 Dec 2011:

There were some threads on this very topic last July and August…
here are the files so you can review the posts. You’ll have to cut
and paste these into your browser since they’re too long to just
click on.

http://forums.jag-lovers.org/tv.php3?
eNrLL8q0zcxLSa1QS7RN1S2pLEhVK7Y1NDEzNjC0sALRRobGUNoSQpsbQmkTCG1pBKUh
8sYWZhAayjcxgNKW5lYAEJcZsA==

http://forums.jag-lovers.org/tv.php3?
eNrLL8q0zcxLSa1QS7RN1S2pLEhVK7Y1NDEzNzMwtQLTxgZQ2gREWxiYmlkBALSUDis=

All the best,
Jay–
'61 Mark IX, '67 E-Type 2+2, '72 E-Type FHC
Austin, Texas, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from Bob sent Tue 6 Dec 2011:

Fumes inside are very common, and exhaust leaks are by no means the
only answer . More usually, there are unplugged holes in the
bulkhead where the grommets have rotted away ; there are holes in
the boot floor and most particularly in the rear valance ( hidden
by the number plate) which should have rubber bungs in ; and the
tailgate seals, as you have suggested, may leak, although this is
less common . Running with the rear quarter lights open may also
produce fumes in the car . The low pressure area is around the
number plate, and this, and the bulkhead, is what I would check
first–
christopher storey
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from CroJag sent Tue 6 Dec 2011:

Hi CJ, This is a rather common topic, and has been visited
many times.I wasn’t able to open the links already given, so
maybe you won’t be able either. However, all is not lost. Go
the browm tab , ‘’ search forums ‘’ just above this message (
right side, second in ) and search for ‘’ fumes in cabin ‘’.
You will get quite a bit of information. In general the
answer is related to the cars tendency to suck outside air
into the cabin especially from the rear, even when you don’t
have a significant exhaust leak.In my case I replaced the
rear hatch rubber, and plugged many holes in the rear of the
car ( number plate area specially ) as well as some
amidships. You will have to go over the car in a very
careful search. Its not that Jaguar left them, but these are
mostly ‘‘gifts’’ from the PO s, mostly from body work I
suspect. As a PS I would suggest you also find the ‘’ Edit
your profile’’ tab so that your sign off gives all relevant
info, and you might notice that we do for the most part use
our names here. Your choice!–
The original message included these comments:

This is my first sting on this forum. I just got a 1973
xke coupe, oh what magnificent machine, and itis
perfect…I think I am I love. Now, the issue that I am
running into, other than my wife being jaleous, is that
car is sucking exaust fumes into the cabin. I suspect the
back port seal? Any way to test this teory? Did. Anybody
run into this problem?
CroJag
Los altos , Ca, United States


John M Holmes 1973 E Type SIII Supra 5Sp, 70 SII OTS 05XJ8L
Ontario, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from CroJag sent Tue 6 Dec 2011:

Hi,

Not to blow your cool, it is a 2+2, I know the factory
called it a coupe, but that’s because there was no other
coupe for S3 (unlike S1 and S2).

This is a common problem and in my case the holes under the
rear registration plate were the cause. Once I plugged those
with the easily available correct rubber plugs exhaust fumes
stay outside. Except for rare occasions where at a certain
speed some fumes are sucked inside if the rear quarter
windows are open!

Your other ‘‘problems’’ are familiar too. If you don’t what
anyone to be jealous, you’ve just chosen the most wrong
car imaginable! :smiley:

Cheers,
Pekka T. 1E76372BW MOD (Series 1 2+2 coupe)–
The original message included these comments:

This is my first sting on this forum. I just got a 1973
xke coupe, oh what magnificent machine, and itis
perfect…I think I am I love. Now, the issue that I am
running into, other than my wife being jaleous, is that
car is sucking exaust fumes into the cabin. I suspect the
back port seal? Any way to test this teory? Did. Anybody
run into this problem?
Warm regards,
CroJag
Los altos , Ca, United States


MKV 3.5L DHC, E-type 2+2 Ser.1 MOD, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from ptelivuo sent Thu 8 Dec 2011:

Thanks for all of your advices.
I just got a call from the Jaguar specialist in the area
telling me that rear crank shaft seal is bad, and quoted me
around $6000 to change the seal. I am not overly technical,
but this sounds little expensive?? Could a leak on the rear
crank shaft seal produce that effect?
regards,–
CroJag
Los altos , Ca, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

The seal costs about seventy five cents. The rest is labor. Rear main is bad on mine too, but I figure a quart of oil every so often is worth it.
LLoyd

My driveway is long enough that you can appreciate the conflict between the desire for privacy and the terror of being completely lost .----- Original Message -----
From: “CroJag” mozara@gmail.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 2:07:36 PM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Fumes inside the cabin

In reply to a message from ptelivuo sent Thu 8 Dec 2011:

Thanks for all of your advices.
I just got a call from …


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

To change the rear seal the engine and trans have to be pulled and the
crankshaft has to be removed. Its going to be expensive, I can’t say
if $6k is too expensive but it sounds a little pricey. I had a quote
of $2600 ten years ago for the same job, it ended up costing about
twice that. I’d guess it should not be $6k just to change the seal
but if he’s suggesting changing all the obvious stuff that should
probably be changed when the engine is out it might be a good price.
Find out exactly what you get for the money and make sure someone very
familiar with the XK motor is doing the work. Rear seal replacement
isn’t hard but must be done correctly. If the engine, trans, clutch
need anything at all then do it now. OTOH, because its an expensive
proposition consider putting up with the leak, oil is relatively
cheap. If you haven’t seen copious oil leaks then why does he suggest
it needs to be replaced.
pauls 67ots

Thanks for all of your advices.
I just got a call from the Jaguar specialist in the area
telling me that rear crank shaft seal is bad, and quoted me
around $6000 to change the seal. I am not overly technical,
but this sounds little expensive?? Could a leak on the rear
crank shaft seal produce that effect?
regards,
<<<<<<From: “CroJag” mozara@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Fumes inside the cabin


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from paul spurlock sent Thu 8 Dec 2011:

Note that the OP has a 73, i.e. V12.

Don’t know much about the V12, but apparently it has a rope
seal that does leak and can drop enough oil on the exhaust
system to make some nasty smells.

Do a search of the V12 Engine forum. There is a ton of stuff
on the subject. There is a Ford part number for the seal
that is better than the Jag part, and a ‘‘sneaky pete’’ method
of seal replacement that can be done with the engine in
place. Also, be sure that the PCV is functioning.

Just the tip of the iceberg:

An hour spent reading old threads is far more pleasant than
hours spent on your back under the car, and may save you a
boat load f work to boot. Good luck!

Andy–
A Blackley http://www.xkedata.com/cars/detail/?car=1R41606
Chardon Ohio, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from andy303 sent Fri 9 Dec 2011:

Follow on. If I had a V12 I’d be reading ‘‘The Book’’:
http://www.jag-lovers.org/xj-s/book/Jaguar.html

Written for the XJ-S, but much of the engine info should
apply too. Open the link above, download the Book, scroll
down to page 105 and thine eyes shall be opened.

Also be absolutely sure that the PCV system is working. Too
much crankcase pressure will force oil past the seal. If
your piston rings are worn causing too much blow by, and
thereby over-pressurizing the engine, thats a whole 'nother
kettle of fish…–
A Blackley http://www.xkedata.com/cars/detail/?car=1R41606
Chardon Ohio, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from paul spurlock sent Thu 8 Dec 2011:

Thanks for your advice.
I just took it for a 40 mile drive, and pressure seems to be
steady at 40+, but at the end of the drive I noticed more
smoke coming form underneath the car, not a tailpipe, an oil
pressure was a just a nudge under 40. I was wondering if
crankshaft seal is failing. After stopping an engine it seems
that more oil is leaking than before�. Still no smoke out of
the tailpipe (good sign?)–
CroJag
Los altos , Ca, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

CroJag,There are lots of places for oil leaks, they are Jaguar’s rust prevention
system. Seriously, check everything else before thinking it is the rear main
seal leaking, as that is not an easy fix. Cam covers and the cam oil line are
good places to start. Clean the engine off well if it is not already clean,
drive it some and look for places where oil has leaked down the sides and rear
of the block. From underneath the car you can often see oil drops and trace them
back to their origin. The oil filter assembly is also a good place to look. It
can be a long and tedious process. Good Luck
Larry----- Original Message ----
From: CroJag mozara@gmail.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Sat, December 10, 2011 10:31:44 AM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Fumes inside the cabin

In reply to a message from paulspurlock sent Thu 8 Dec 2011:

Thanks for your advice.
I just took it for a 40 mile drive, and pressure seems to be
steady at 40+, but at the end of the drive I noticed more
smoke coming form underneath the car, not a tailpipe, an oil
pressure was a just a nudge under 40. I was wondering if
crankshaft seal is failing. After stopping an engine it seems
that more oil is leaking than before…. Still no smoke out of
the tailpipe (good sign?)

CroJag
Los altos , Ca, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

No need to assume its the rear crank seal. There are plenty of places
that can leak that will drop oil onto the down pipes and smoke. Crank
seal doesn’t usually fail suddenly, a slow, over many many miles
increase in oil on the floor under the rear of the engine. You will
want to investigate under the motor for signs of oil from the valve
covers or around the oil filter. Even if the oil filter isn’t near
the down pipes, when driving air will blow oil from the front of the
engine all the way to the IRS if leaking severely enough. Less likely
the oil pan gasket itself could leak too. In the end its difficult
and expensive to replace the seal so do everything else you can before
making that leap.
pauls 67ots

Thanks for your advice.
I just took it for a 40 mile drive, and pressure seems to be
steady at 40+, but at the end of the drive I noticed more
smoke coming form underneath the car, not a tailpipe, an oil
pressure was a just a nudge under 40. I was wondering if
crankshaft seal is failing. After stopping an engine it seems
that more oil is leaking than before…. Still no smoke out of
the tailpipe (good sign?)
<<<<<<<<From: “CroJag” mozara@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Fumes inside the cabin


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from CroJag sent Sat 10 Dec 2011:

Crowjag, Why not tell us what car you have…it might even be
relevant to the best answer??? For example…the SIII’‘E’’
exhaust has a cross member, and rear crank leaking oil drops
right onto it creating oodles of smoke. Such a leak might be
caused by a clogged breather system.And so on…–
The original message included these comments:

steady at 40+, but at the end of the drive I noticed more
smoke coming form underneath the car, not a tailpipe, an oil
pressure was a just a nudge under 40. I was wondering if
crankshaft seal is failing. After stopping an engine it seems
that more oil is leaking than before�. Still no smoke out of
the tailpipe (good sign?)
CroJag
Los altos , Ca, United States


John M Holmes 1973 E Type SIII Supra 5Sp, 70 SII OTS 05XJ8L
Ontario, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from John M Holmes sent Tue 13 Dec 2011:

John:
Go back and reread the entire thread. In his very first post
he mentioned it was a 73 XKE…what more do we need to know?–
The original message included these comments:

Crowjag, Why not tell us what car you have…it might even be
relevant to the best answer??? For example…the SIII’‘E’’
exhaust has a cross member, and rear crank leaking oil drops
right onto it creating oodles of smoke. Such a leak might be
caused by a clogged breather system.And so on…


A Blackley http://www.xkedata.com/cars/detail/?car=1R41606
Chardon Ohio, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from andy303 sent Tue 13 Dec 2011:

Andy, You are so correct.My apologies to all especially Crowjag.–
The original message included these comments:

John:
Go back and reread the entire thread. In his very first post
he mentioned it was a 73 XKE…what more do we need to know?
A Blackley http://www.xkedata.com/cars/detail/?car=1R41606
Chardon Ohio, United States


John M Holmes 1973 E Type SIII Supra 5Sp, 70 SII OTS 05XJ8L
Ontario, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from John M Holmes sent Wed 14 Dec 2011:

John:
I blame the System (i.e. the way jag-lovers fragments posts).

Andy–
A Blackley http://www.xkedata.com/cars/detail/?car=1R41606
Chardon Ohio, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php