[E-Type] Gear reduction starters

In reply to a message from 2crazy4u sent Thu 8 May 2008:

I put one on our car after being stranded a number of times. If
your battery condition, charging ability, electrical connections,
starter torque, etc are in good shape, I’m sure it makes little
difference. But I had problems starting, especially when hot. I put
the gear starter on and NEVER had another starting/starter issue.
It spins that big 4.2L like crazy even if the cars been sitting for
awhile and the battery’s a bit flat. It’s an easy mod that�s
reversible if need be. Its one place where a little modern
technology really pays off IMHO.–
The original message included these comments:

Has anyone installed a gear reduction starter on there series 1 and


Doug, Desktop Wallpaper: Free Trial!
68 E-Type OTS, United States
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In reply to a message from 2crazy4u sent Thu 8 May 2008:

I put one on our car after being stranded a number of times. If
your battery condition, charging ability, electrical connections,
starter torque, etc are in good shape, I’m sure it makes little
difference. But I had problems starting, especially when hot. I put
the gear starter on and NEVER had another starting/starter issue.
It spins that big 4.2L like crazy even if the cars been sitting for
awhile and the battery’s a bit flat. It’s an easy mod that’s
reversible if need be. Its one place where a little modern
technology really pays off IMHO.----- Original Message ----
From: Doug Martin dmartin@coinstar.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Friday, May 9, 2008 9:31:11 AM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Gear reduction starters


The original message included these comments:

Has anyone installed a gear reduction starter on there series 1 and


Doug, Desktop Wallpaper: Free Trial!
68 E-Type OTS, United States
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In reply to a message from mouton sent Fri 9 May 2008:

I suspect that the modern starter is indeed a superior product,
again given their almost total use in modern cars: that being said,
I don’t remember the originals being any more troublesome than any
other starter.

As for Jerry’s statement? Tweety’s starter is still the original
one!
I’ll keep it in there to see just how many MORE years beyond 45
it’ll last!!! Maybe I’ll set some kind of Guiness Book record…–
The original message included these comments:

Cranking speed – the original cranks plenty fast enough to start
the engine in one or two pops when it’s warm. The advantage is…?
Current draw – with a battery and engine in good condition the car
always starts, again the advantage?
Accessibility – does this matter if you never have to replace the
starter?


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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In reply to a message from mouton sent Fri 9 May 2008:

Hi Jerry. Can’t really argue with a word. I have always taken
the ‘lightness’ thing somewhat tongue in cheek, being the size I am
and having attempted to race motorcycles where I add circa 60% mass
to the ensemble. Even more on an off-road stroker!

However, I can also argue that under those circumstances, taking
every weight saving option known to man, I might - just might -
enjoy the very same accelerative experience as you would with your
wiry frame in a standard car. Would you deny ole tubby that
thrill? :slight_smile:

However, point for point, the 4.2 starter lump is probably a little
heavier than the 3.8 Bendix - not sure, so there is a respectable
saving.

The power consumption can help on a foggy freezing morning when
there is damp on the dizzy or elsewhere. The car can be as well-
tuend as possible but living outdoors and 365 day a year use
inevitably expose old cars to more stress than in California I
think. If, as also happens, some people forget to turn the lamps
off when they park their husband’s classic, a low-current starter
might save a call-out.

The same applies if, as happened to me inside the last month with
another car, you have a dead engine and an uphill drive and garage
the car MUST get into for repairs and there is nobody there to
help. This dodge can also help in floods with a dead engine, but
anyone who gets their car that deep into water is either daft, or
innocent but has the initials CG…

Accessibility never matters until it matters. And then it matters a
great deal…

Reliability - I think I grant you that one. Except possibly that in
general terms when a mechanism is asked to operate way inside its
limits it tends to last longer. I suspect as you hint, a gear
reduction starter might be overkill in terms of mechanical
advantage but this, if true, suggests it can shrug off many years
hard work. Plus I do prefer the pre-engaged mech to the Bendix.
Overall when you include external relays/solenoids etc they are
defintely more reliable or the auto makers would still be using the
Bendix inertia system, which they do not.

Mine doesn’t sound like and E-type now, so… :slight_smile:

Appreciate the banter anyway. You are the sort of person who even
if they DID say ‘Don’t do this upgrade’ would assemble a logical
argument to that effect but still be nice enough to accept that not
everyone thinks the same way. Be very grateful not everyone thinks
like me, that’s for sure!

Pete–
66 2+2, 78 RAM D-type replica
Cambridge, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Fri 9 May 2008:

I take the view that I have been lucky to preserve a
prestigious antique car, a car which was very advanced in
its day and actually did have many very good original
components installed.

So while I recognize the advantages of the smaller lighter
gear reduction starters I really rather keep it stock as
much as possible.

So with the exception of modern tires, Dayton wheels and
adjustable shocks (definitely enabling it to handle better)
everything else is stock including the original points
distributor which has never given me any reason to want to
change it. Same thing with the single blade rad fan, alumium
rad and the Dunlop/Kelsey Hayes braking system (but maybe
with the substitution of modern pads).

And re. the starter again, as Jerry says, an XK engine
should start almost instantly if it’s kept in good tune.–
Clive, '62 Coupe 860320
Ontario, Canada
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In reply to a message from PeterCrespin sent Fri 9 May 2008:

Pete,

Thanks, same here.

My perspective on the list is that we are not really arguing with
each other, and ‘‘winning’’ or ‘‘losing’’, but out there somewhere
there is somebody trying to decide what to do and wants to hear as
much positive or negative about her choices as possible, from
people who know about it, or who are master theoreticians as we all
are here. ; -)

Jerry–
The original message included these comments:

Appreciate the banter anyway. You are the sort of person who even
if they DID say ‘Don’t do this upgrade’ would assemble a logical
argument to that effect but still be nice enough to accept that not
everyone thinks the same way. Be very grateful not everyone thinks
like me, that’s for sure!


Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
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In reply to a message from Clive Wilkinson sent Fri 9 May 2008:

Well said, Clive!

When people hold their noses at the ‘poiple’ paint (as I’m sure
they will, again!) and ask, ‘‘Why did you paint it THAT color?’’,
I always respond, ''Well…getcher own E-Type and paint it the
color ~you~ want!*

So, bravo for your well-stated points!–
The original message included these comments:

I take the view that I have been lucky to preserve a
prestigious antique car, a car which was very advanced in
its day and actually did have many very good original
components installed.


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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In reply to a message from Wiggles sent Fri 9 May 2008:

I put a gear reduction starter in my series 2 when I had the
engine out, for the following reasons (1) the starter is in
a tough place to reach if and when it went out (2) even
though the original Lucas starter worked when removed, the
very fact that I could have replaced and didn’t, when
coupled with (1) above, would ensure imminent failure. The
cost of a gear reduction starter was less than a new or
rebuilt Lucas.

The weight of the unit, or prospective gains in
‘‘performance’’ (whatever that may mean for a starter) didn’t
really factor into the calculation. I still have the
original, and won’t part with it, so that it can run with
the car for antiquity’s sake.–
Kevin Kemper
Auburn, CA, United States
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Mmmmmmmm, I’ll toss a little more chum into the waters.

I have long wondered if the modern starter from an 8-cylinder Jag
sedan would fit or be adapted and/or work in 6-cylinder XKEs and/or
XKs. They sometimes can be had for a song so the thought is more than
idle.

Anyone know?

Brian______________________________________________________
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At 08:23 AM 5/9/2008, you wrote:

I believe that Gustafson Machine furnishes the starters to almost
all the usual vendors.
http://www.gustafsonspecialty.com/

Gustafson supplies many vendors, but there are now at least two
manufacturers in the US. I use both suppliers and the quality is comparable.

The reason I started selling these is that I had serial failures with
rebuilt Lucas starters. At first, I really didn’t want a gear
reduction starter, because one of the things I loved about the car
was the way it sounded when it was starting up. But when the Lucas
starters would fail, the only sound you could hear were words that
wouldn’t be repeatable on-list. I think that if I had better luck
with rebuilds, I wouldn’t have made the change. However, once I
installed one on my own car, I was impressed with the ease of
installation and starting power. And the sound really isn’t that
different. As for weight, and speaking only for myself, it would be
better to lose 5lbs under the belt than under the motor.

Mike Frank______________________________________________________
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I’ll never forget the day that Dan at CJs handed me the new starter for my
engine rebuild, I really thought He was kidding. The size, both weight and
physical size are really smaller than the original. Put it on and 7 years
later nothing but good service.
Mike Goodwin & KoolKat
’ 68 OTS E Type W/HT & SUs
Phoenix, AZ USA www.beataz.com----- Original Message -----
From: “Doug Martin” dmartin@coinstar.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Gear reduction starters

In reply to a message from 2crazy4u sent Thu 8 May 2008:

I put one on our car after being stranded a number of times. If
your battery condition, charging ability, electrical connections,
starter torque, etc are in good shape, I’m sure it makes little
difference. But I had problems starting, especially when hot. I put
the gear starter on and NEVER had another starting/starter issue.
It spins that big 4.2L like crazy even if the cars been sitting for
awhile and the battery’s a bit flat. It’s an easy mod that’s
reversible if need be. Its one place where a little modern
technology really pays off IMHO.

The original message included these comments:

Has anyone installed a gear reduction starter on there series 1 and


Doug, Desktop Wallpaper: Free Trial!
68 E-Type OTS, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


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No virus found in this incoming message.
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12:38 PM


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mouton wrote:

In reply to a message from PeterCrespin sent Fri 9 May 2008:

Pete,

Weight – the original 3.8 starter weighs 10 lb (I just weighed my
backup). Say you save half of that. That 5 lbs is the equivalent
of taking your walking shoes off and putting on driving shoes, or
walking up stairs for a week.

I seem to recall weighing the original S2 starter and it was something
like 28 pounds. The gear reduction starter was about 9 pounds.

George Cohn
'70 OTS______________________________________________________
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same with an S3
just put it on the scale 24 lbs
not sure how much the reduction one I put in weighs>

I seem to recall weighing the original S2 starter and it was something
like 28 pounds. The gear reduction starter was about 9 pounds.

George Cohn


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In reply to a message from George Cohn sent Sat 10 May 2008:

Dang! No wonder the 3.8s are faster!

Jerry–
The original message included these comments:

I seem to recall weighing the original S2 starter and it was something
like 28 pounds. The gear reduction starter was about 9 pounds.


Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
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In reply to a message from George Shabatura sent Sat 10 May 2008:

Confirmed George - the V12 pre-engaged is exactly 24lbs. This is
more than the similar but physically-smaller 4.2 version, but I
don’t have an exact number for that. You have to do a lot of
dieting to lose 10-14 lbs.

But then people drive around with full petrol tanks on track -
what’s that about? 100lbs saving? Thank you very much. Even on
bikes I always aimed to finish the race close to empty.

Pete–
The original message included these comments:

same with an S3
just put it on the scale 24 lbs
not sure how much the reduction one I put in weighs


66 2+2, 78 RAM D-type replica
Cambridge, United Kingdom
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Yeah, but once we get that new fangled lightweight starter in there
watch out :slight_smile:
pauls 67ots

In reply to a message from George Cohn sent Sat 10 May 2008:

Dang! No wonder the 3.8s are faster!

Jerry
<<<<<<<<<From: “mouton” jerry@moutons.org
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Gear reduction starters


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In reply to a message from George Cohn sent Sat 10 May 2008:

I knew 10 lbs wasn’t right…maybe that was the one that got hit
by Jerry’s rapidly-exiting-the-crankcase con rod…:)–
The original message included these comments:

Weight – the original 3.8 starter weighs 10 lb (I just weighed my
backup). Say you save half of that. That 5 lbs is the equivalent
I seem to recall weighing the original S2 starter and it was something
like 28 pounds. The gear reduction starter was about 9 pounds.


Paul Wigton, steward to a '60 DKW 1000 SP, Tweety, '63 FHC!
Keenesburg, CO, United States
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From: mfrank@westnet.com

The reason I started selling these is that I had serial failures with
rebuilt Lucas starters.

The attached from Mike makes me believe even more that, as I’ve mentioned before, finding and working with a good local rebuilder to get these components sorted properly is worth the time invested in finding said rebuilder and establishing a good relationship. It’s easy just to take yet another failed rebuilt unit back to the retailer and get another, but the point is you don’t want to have to do that, at all, let alone the frustration of having to do it!! Just find a good rebuilder and get your original units rebuilt correctly, the first time!

If anyone is in the Atlanta area and wants to know of such a place, I can provide details.

Les Halls
Atlanta Ga
'68 S1.5 2+2______________________________________________________
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Peter;
you know on your side of the pond it weighs 11Kg
not 24Lbs :-}----- Original Message -----
From: “PeterCrespin” jag@thewritersbureau.com
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Gear reduction starters

In reply to a message from George Shabatura sent Sat 10 May 2008:

Confirmed George - the V12 pre-engaged is exactly 24lbs. This is
more than the similar but physically-smaller 4.2 version, but I
don’t have an exact number for that. You have to do a lot of


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1 Like

Wiggy
if there’s any 2 listers that would underestimate the weight of something
it’s gotta be you & me----- Original Message -----
From: “Wiggles” vrooomie@fastmail.fm
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Gear reduction starters

In reply to a message from George Cohn sent Sat 10 May 2008:

I knew 10 lbs wasn’t right…maybe that was the one that got hit
by Jerry’s rapidly-exiting-the-crankcase con rod…:slight_smile:


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