[E-Type] Mangoletsi throttle cable conversion kit

In reply to a message from Heuer sent Tue 18 Mar 2014:

I’ve never had any problems with the stock throttle
arrangement, and never even suspected that a better way may
exist. What amazes with this thread is the abiding faith
that some people, who have only experienced the stock
set-up, have in their own opinion that a better way does
not, and apparently cannot, exist. There are probably
people with the same simple faith in their distributors.
Lacking personal exposure, I tend to give more credence to
the folks with the wider experience–
Tom Morris '62 E-type FHC (885688)
Sechelt, British Columbia, Canada
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In reply to a message from VRRacing sent Wed 19 Mar 2014:

Jim

The sale and promotion of the Mangoletsi throttle system has
nothing to do with me. I received one of the early
prototypes (which I paid for) and have used it for a year.
It works and I like it but if you have issues trying to buy
it take that up with Julian Barratt as SNGB are the sole
supplier in all markets. The only exceptions I believe are
Eagle, E-Type UK, J D Classics and CMC who buy direct from
Mangoletsi. Your rant on marketing was a waste of pixels and
I skipped the majority of it although I did notice you took
the space to attack the distributors web site and the
product itself - not quite in the spirit of the Forum I*
believe. I have filed your name under ‘idiot’ for future
reference!

I only responded to this thread because the OP was asking
about the delay in delivery but it has since been hijacked
by the ‘not invented here’, ‘if it ain’t broke’, ‘why
bother’ and ‘mine works perfectly’ brigade who miraculously,
through morphic resonance, developed the skill of second
sight and telepathic experience.

Thankfully ‘Bloggins’ (Tom Morris) has succinctly made the
point for me in the above post.

David–
The original message included these comments:

For a product to be successful, one must execute well on all
four P’s.


David Jones, S1 OTS
Nottingham, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Heuer sent Wed 19 Mar 2014:

This is a tough bunch. I am proceeding with interest in the
technology and besides, it’s fun experimenting. I was an
early adopter of Ray’s EDIS system and my plan is to make my
cars fun drivers with many improvements(?) such as a 5 speed.
My cars will not be sold by me and are moving on to my sons in
the near future so what the hell, why not?–
Gary Herzberg, 63 3.8 FHC 66 Series 1 OTS, 98 xk8
Montana, United States
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In reply to a message from Gary Herzberg sent Wed 19 Mar 2014:

Man after my own heart Gary. Try it and report back.

David–
The original message included these comments:

This is a tough bunch. I am proceeding with interest in the
technology and besides, it’s fun experimenting. I was an
early adopter of Ray’s EDIS system and my plan is to make my
cars fun drivers with many improvements(?) such as a 5 speed.
My cars will not be sold by me and are moving on to my sons in
the near future so what the hell, why not?


David Jones, S1 OTS
Nottingham, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Gary Herzberg sent Wed 19 Mar 2014:

Wow, David. I apologize for upsetting you. That was not my
intent. I was dispassionately analyzing why the throttle
cable wasn’t as successful as it could have been. I hope it
becomes successful and more products can do like-wise.

  1. I didn’t not suggest in any way that you were involved in
    the throttle cable business. I stated quite clearly and
    succinctly that if it wasn’t for your sharing your experiences
    on the forums, most people wouldnt even know it existed. So
    thanks to you for doing that.

  2. Saying I '‘bashed’ SNGB’s website is a complete
    mischaracterization. I simply described the facts of trying
    to learn more about the throttle cable. It’s harder than it
    should be. From the perspective of the cable vendor, how well
    my channels support my prospective customers is critical.

In my opinion, it is in all of our interests to be thoughtful
and rational when looking at the e-type ecosystem. If we are
automatically emotional and defensive, then that ecosystem is
at risk because it can’t evolve and improve.

I understand that it is easy to lets one’s passion consume
them so that any statement not completely fawning and
complimentary is interpreted as ‘‘bashing’’ by ‘‘idiots’’. But
note that I appreciate all you do and all the contributions
you make on the forums.

Jim–
70 E-type OTS
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In reply to a message from Heuer sent Tue 18 Mar 2014:

Excuse my, but does anyone have an opinion on whether this
system would be adaptable to triple SU MKX/420G ?

Can anyone point me to somewhere that gives a good
description of how it works ?

thanks–
The original message included these comments:

have a fix and are rolling it out. Great product by the way so
worth waiting for. It will transform your driving experience.


Tony
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In reply to a message from awg sent Wed 19 Mar 2014:

Here is a link to the uk forum

http://www.etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?
t=3512&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40–
Gary Herzberg, 63 3.8 FHC 66 Series 1 OTS, 98 xk8
Montana, United States
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In reply to a message from VRRacing sent Wed 19 Mar 2014:

Hi Jim

You are correct - I should not have used the word ‘idiot’ -
my sincere apologies. In my defence it was born out of
frustration as I simply tried to help a fellow lister with a
question and the thread veered off into telling me I did not
know what I was talking about and bringing into question my
experience. Your post came in at the wrong time I’m afraid.
I should have taken the time to read it thoroughly before
responding!

Regards

David–
The original message included these comments:

I understand that it is easy to lets one’s passion consume
them so that any statement not completely fawning and
complimentary is interpreted as ‘‘bashing’’ by ‘‘idiots’’. But
note that I appreciate all you do and all the contributions
you make on the forums.


David Jones, S1 OTS
Nottingham, United Kingdom
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


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In reply to a message from Heuer sent Thu 20 Mar 2014:

I think that we could all agree that the E Type was a
phenomenal car when it was introduced in 1961 and was way
ahead of its contemporaries that were anywhere near to its
price range. However, it was 1950’s technology that
produced a car that was originally intended for a production
run of only 500 or so cars as I recall. It was a great car,
but not perfect, certainly by today’s standards. One can
drive a well-sorted perfectly originally equipped car from
any of the series and have a wonderful and enjoyable driving
experience. I, for one, like to keep my car as original as
practical, but have made some upgrades that I deemed
desirable to improve its reliability (i.e. 123 Ignition).
There are many upgrades that have been discussed on this
forum and E Type UK that unquestionably improve the
performance and reliability of the car (EDIS, Mangoletsi,
power steering, fuel injection, LED instrument lighting, and
on and on). How far one wants to go down that path is
strictly up to the individual (as long as nothing
irreversible is done in my opinion) and the owner shouldn’t
be chastised or belittled. Healthy and rational debates are
part of what makes the forum valuable because ignorant (in
the academic meaning of the word) people such as I gain much
from the interchanges. I just wish that we all could keep
the discussions friendly and in the spirit of helping one
another.–
Mark 1E14988 67 OTS
Burke, VA, United States
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1 Like

In reply to a message from mgordon sent Thu 20 Mar 2014:

It is one of the outstanding benefits of subscribing to this
list that we get to share the results of others who are
prepared to try out new things in their desire to make their
E-Types better.

Some of these improvements will never find their way onto the
bag of nails that is my E-Type. Regardless of what I may or
may not fit to my car I hope to continue to read with
increasing pleasure the exploits of others on this list to
modify their cars to suit their own particular requirements.–
Chris Fell, '67 S1 2+2.
Salisbury, UK, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Chris Fell sent Thu 20 Mar 2014:

I would just like to add, that I had a �play� with the
Mangoletsi conversion kit on the SNG stand at Stoneleigh.
It was very smooth, light and the quality is excellent.
Unfortunately for me it is also quite expensive and although
I would love one, I can�t see me being able to justify it.

Paul–
Paul Scott, 65 E-Type FHC, 1E32131, Jaguar 340
Oxford, United Kingdom
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Price point is very important…that’s why I designed my own cable system &
EDIS, installed them and just having fun with them. Although I do need help
with the JCNA slalom run…following the course helps with one’s timing.

Mike Goodwin
'68 E Type OTS
Phoenix, AZ
In God We Trust-----Original Message-----
From: owner-e-type@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-e-type@jag-lovers.org] On
Behalf Of VRRacing
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 7:36 AM
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Mangoletsi throttle cable conversion kit

In reply to a message from Heuer sent Tue 18 Mar 2014:

It’s obvious you’re a big fan of the throttle cable system, David, and are
disappointed that the e-type community has
‘failed to support it’.

In the end it is not the responsibility of the market to support a product.
It is the responsibility of the vendor to effectively market it. So given
that, lets look at the throttle cable in the context of the 4P’s of
Marketing (see wikipedia for more details).

  1. Product - A product is seen as an item that satisfies what a consumer
    demands.

The e-type throttle system is a Rube Goldberg contraption of the first
order. Lots of points of wear and adjustment. I certainly see the
potential value of an alternative, but many others don’t.

  1. Price - The amount a customer pays for the product. When setting a price,
    the marketer must be aware of the customer perceived value for the product.

That last part is important. In the US (the largest market for the e-type
and hence the largest market for upgrades) the throttle cable costs $870.
That’s a lot of money in absolute terms. That point about ‘‘perceived
value’’ is critical though.
The expectations in the US for throttle cables & linkages from Jegs or
Summit Racing is that $100 is a premium price (for say Lokar). So even
adjusting for Jag-flation, $900 is a hefty premium.

Plus, at $900 you are now competing with other ‘‘investments’’
like a Mig welder, a 2-stage compressor, a new hood/top, etc.

I’m sure exchange rates account for a lot of the price but then again as a
vendor you need to find a way to deliver your product at the right price.
Price is set at what people in the market at willing to pay, not what the
vendor wants to - or must - charge.

Promotion - All of the methods of communication that a marketer may use to
provide information to different parties about the product.

If it wasnt for your posts on Jag-Lovers and E-type, I don’t think I would
have ever heard of the throttle cables. Nuff’
said.

Place - Refers to providing the product at a place which is convenient for
consumers to access.

In the US (again the largest market) the cable is available only from SNGB.
But it is almost impossible to find on their website (which has issues
beyond the cable vendor’s control).
On Chrome, the search box on the home page is covered by links for misc
parts. If you can find just the right spot and click you can get the
insertion point into the search box. Enter ‘‘throttle cable’’ (seems
logical, right?), press Return and wah-lah…

There were no product items found that matched your search criteria.

Well, damn. Turns out the search box requires you to know the part number
in advance. If you’re really determined, you can eventually find the
throttle cables. There are four listed but good luck figuring out which if
any will work with your car (SU vs Stangleberg, LHD vs RHD, etc).

For a product to be successful, one must execute well on all four P’s.

Note that I used my investment budget on EDIS. :slight_smile:

Jim

The original message included these comments:

Your loss.
David


70 E-type OTS
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In reply to a message from Michael Goodwin sent Thu 20 Mar 2014:

That’s cool, Mike. I’m a big fan of ‘‘built, not bought’’.
Have you done ‘‘how-to’’ write-ups?–
70 E-type OTS
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Hi, the EDIS system is very similar to Ray’s except I cut the 36-1 teeth
into the crankshaft damper, YouTube “Jaguar EDIS” for the video. But all the
wiring harness and spark plug wires were made for my car then I did 6 sets
for TR-6s. While my Mallory dizzy was doing a great job, for me the EDIS
project to learn and work with a couple of great guys (see video) was well
worth the effort. And then there was the benefit of just having the EDIS
setup. My engine just really came alive, idle is solid at 550 and I’m
running an XJ-40 coil (6 tower) just to keep the project as much jag as
possible. The throttle cable system had lots of pictures passed around and
again was just a fun project to work out problems that I had my with
throttle rods. I could go back to having throttle rods in about 2 hours
effort. Since all of this I’ve installed O2 sensors in each downpipe and
working on mapping the AF ratio on my laptop to better tune my SUs. Having
the digital gauges of the O2s in the glove box is really cool, drop down the
door and watch the gauges as I drive. Getting ready for the BEAT tour and
what happen to all of the spare time?

Mike Goodwin
'68 E Type OTS
Phoenix, AZ
In God We Trust-----Original Message-----
From: owner-e-type@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-e-type@jag-lovers.org] On
Behalf Of VRRacing
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 4:43 PM
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [E-Type] Mangoletsi throttle cable conversion kit

In reply to a message from Michael Goodwin sent Thu 20 Mar 2014:

That’s cool, Mike. I’m a big fan of ‘‘built, not bought’’.
Have you done ‘‘how-to’’ write-ups?

70 E-type OTS
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


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Well, As my entire front end, engine, trans and all are coming out in two weeks and have owned etypes for more than 30years…5 years later since this original thread, How does the lhd cable set up look and feel?
Im still game, I was the first with the ht starter, first with vented brakes from a series 3 and swapping out an xj6 series 3 distributor well before petronix and accel.
Any pictures?
gtjoey1314
1967 etype coupe triple su

I have built some 40 cars in the past some street rods and most of them sports cars.
All of them I have converted to CABLE OPERATED THROTTLES !
Using twin (for safety) motorcycle, bicycle or other brake cables I fabricated throttle cables to serve the replacement of rod operated systems.
All modern automobiles use twin or single CABLE systems for carburetors or injection
throttles. I have always used brake cables as they are much heavier than the commercial throttle cables that are available. The cables provide infinite adjustment, desired spring return and the desired tactile feel. The cost for do it yourself guys is about $20. I have posted suggested drawings and pics on other XKE sites. (See Alternate throttles on Jaguarforumns, with pdf drawings)

4 Likes

Technically, many, by now likely most, modern cars have neither linkage nor cables, being drive-by-wire…

Regards,
Ray L.

1 Like

Details of the Mangoletsi kit along with fitting instructions can be found here: http://forum.etypeuk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3512

Best upgrade you can make to the E-Type along with the EDIS/Megajolt kit. Had mine (RHD) for over five years now and it is sublime. Everyone who has fitted it tells the same story.

David

I have given drawings and pictures of a completed installation of a do-it-yourself fabrication of a dual cable throttle set-up for a XKE. 6 cylinder on (Alternate throttle set-up for xke) on Jaguarforumns.com. I can attest to how smooth this set up works
and the price…$20. It provides individual adjustment of carbs.
This system also allows returning to the original operation.

3 Likes

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