Some of you may recall my clutch slave cylinder suffered a
catastrophic failure just as I was leaving the XKs Unltd
open house about 5 years ago. One of the guys there was
nice enough to stay around late and put in a genuine, brand-
new Lockheed replacement cylinder. Sadly, that one failed
catastrophically on the way home the very next morning. XKs
sent me a replacement, which also failed catastrophically in
under 24 hours. I bought a replacement seal, and installed
it, and it’s been fine ever since. Well, until
yesterday…
Tom Pope arranged a wonderful E-Type outing in the Napa
Valley/Lake Berryessa area, with no less than 13 E-types in
attendance. A great time was had by all, despite the 105F
temperature most of the afternoon. MY car ran like a charm,
and engine temp rarely got above 77C, and then only very
briefly, due to steep grades, low speeds, etc.
But, back to slave cylinders… As I left the restaurant
where we all had dinner last night, I put my clutch pedal to
the floor, shifted into reverse, and the car started backing
up by itself, with the clutch still on the floor! A peek
underneath showed a sizable puddle of brake fluid under the
slave cylinder. Ah, cr@p!
Oddly, it behaved reasonably well on the 2+ hour drive home,
which had me kinda baffled. This morning I popped the
piston out, and found some very odd wear on the seal (photo
to be posted as soon as it is approved). It appears to me
the seal had been sticking in the bore, and getting cocked,
causing it to wear a great deal on one side, as will be seen
in the photo.
My plan is to make a new piston, about 1/4-3/8’’ longer than
the original, replace the cup-type seal with one of these:
And from now on, I will always carry a spare, for quick
road-side repairs.–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Mon 9 Jun 2014:
Ray, if you are going to start making slave cylinders I think
you might be able to sell a few of those. I live in constant
fear of what you just describe, the ones that we get now are
not very robust.
One thing, I am wondering if a Viton seal would offer any
advantages. Both have good resistance to hydraulic fluids but
Viton is a little more heat resistant.–
Jim Horvath, '67 OTS, 1E13653
San Jose/CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Ray,
What’s the need for a new piston of different dimensions? As has been
said many times, the original setups work well when appropriately
serviced. I’m not suggesting for one moment that you haven’t done
that but unless you feel the piston has been jammed out of line with
the bore and seal, not sure I understand the need for a new/different
piston? And, if the original has been out of line then surely there
has to be a reason that requires correcting.–
Les…'68 S1.5 2+2
In reply to a message from Jim Horvath sent Mon 9 Jun 2014:
I got a Hye-dra-cyl stainless slave, and so far so good. Of course
I have not had the problems you have had Ray, but? My experience
with Hye-dra-cyl has been great, and I hope they used good seals in
there. Thanks for the pointer to the replacements.
Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Jim Horvath sent Mon 9 Jun 2014:
Jim,
Viton would be good, but I don’t have an easy source for Viton
seals like that. I think Buna-N is probably just as good in
this application - heat should not be a major problem on the
slave.–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Les Halls sent Mon 9 Jun 2014:
Les,
The existing piston is not long enough to accomodate the style
of seal I want to use. It uses a simple ‘‘cup’’ seal that is
not attached to the piston in any way. Hence this odd
failure.–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from mouton sent Mon 9 Jun 2014:
Jerry,
Let’s see… $100 for a new SS cylinder, vs less than $1 for
a new seal, and about 20 minutes of my time to make a new
piston… What to do… What to do… Never mind the
hassle of removing the bloody cylinder! This I can do with
the cylinder left in-place.–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from mouton sent Mon 9 Jun 2014:
I think Crespin got one of them Hye-dra-cyl’s after a long
motorcycle ride. His experience wasn’t as good, IIRC. :-)–
The original message included these comments:
I got a Hye-dra-cyl stainless slave, and so far so good. Of course
–
Bob Wilkinson, 73 XJ6
Saint Louis, MO, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Mon 9 Jun 2014:
You can put me down for one of those cylinders, Ray – no
question about it, for me.
Bruce–
The original message included these comments:
Let’s see… $100 for a new SS cylinder, vs less than $1 for
a new seal, and about 20 minutes of my time to make a new
piston… What to do… What to do… Never mind the
hassle of removing the bloody cylinder! This I can do with
the cylinder left in-place.
–
Bruce Harless, '64 S1 ots
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Mon 9 Jun 2014:
Oops! Buna-N is the wrong material for glycol brake fluid.
Gotta find one EPDM Butyl, Viton, etc…–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from BruceHarless sent Mon 9 Jun 2014:
Hi Guys
Just a thought out of left field.
When I fitted a 5 speed to my V12, I had to use a new
slave cylinder. My mechanic went down to the local parts
store and bought a modern one that approximated the size of
the original. This turned out to be for a Isuzu light
truck, but was chosen on similarity to the original.
It has modern seals, and feels very light, even my wife
likes driving the car now, probably more due to the
admiring glances and comments she gets.
So far 10 years later and no problems.
I cant see why this wouldn’t work for you guys, but im not
sure of your setup.–
The original message included these comments:
You can put me down for one of those cylinders, Ray – no
question about it, for me.
–
Mark Brown 71 S3 Etype
Ohope beach, New Zealand
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Mon 9 Jun 2014:
Ray, I had to go back and read the OP. So you are just
fabricating the piston, I thought you were going to mill a
‘‘billet slave’’.
As for the seal, when I pulled up a quick compatibility chart
both buna-N and Viton were good for ‘‘hydraulic’’ fluid which is
what I assumed to be similar to Dot 3 or 4 brake fluid. Is
that not right?–
The original message included these comments:
Oops! Buna-N is the wrong material for glycol brake fluid.
–
Jim Horvath, '67 OTS, 1E13653
San Jose/CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Jim Horvath sent Mon 9 Jun 2014:
Jim,
Correct, I am only intending to make a new piston, NOT the
cylinder. Nothing at all wrong with the cylinder.
Hydraulic fluid is NOT brake fluid. Hydraulic fluid is
petroleum based, while brake fluid is glycol-based. Buna-N is
not compatible with glycol.–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Ahhh, gotcha!On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Ray Livingston jagboy@pacbell.net wrote:
In reply to a message from Les Halls sent Mon 9 Jun 2014:
Les,
The existing piston is not long enough to accomodate the style
of seal I want to use. It uses a simple ‘‘cup’’ seal that is
not attached to the piston in any way. Hence this odd
failure.
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
…dang…
'ya know, the things I don’t know could fill a book…
LLo…, ummm, Joe
My driveway is long enough that you can appreciate the conflict between the desire for privacy and the terror of being completely lost .----- Original Message -----
From: “Ray Livingston” jagboy@pacbell.net
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Monday, June 9, 2014 12:53:59 PM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Miserable Frickin’ Clutch Slave Cylinders…
Hydraulic fluid is NOT brake fluid. Hydraulic fluid is
petroleum based, while brake fluid is glycol-based. Buna-N is
not compatible with glycol.
Off hand, I don’t see what kind of force could result in that type of deformity… ??
LLoyd
My driveway is long enough that you can appreciate the conflict between the desire for privacy and the terror of being completely lost .----- Original Message -----
From: “Ray Livingston” jagboy@pacbell.net
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Monday, June 9, 2014 11:58:51 AM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Miserable Frickin’ Clutch Slave Cylinders…
In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Mon 9 Jun 2014:
In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Mon 9 Jun 2014:
Ray,
Right, I didn’t get this because of a leak, but because that was a
20 year old cylinder that had never been sleeved and was starting
to get corroded. The SS should solve that forever.
With your description of the problem, perhaps Lucas Girling red
brake grease upon installation would solve it? I never used to use
it but I see that the service manual recommends it for a number of
places.
Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC 889791 ‘MIK Jaguar’
Palo Alto, California, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from mouton sent Mon 9 Jun 2014:
Jerry,
I did use brake grease, and it was still there when I took it
apart this AM.–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Never mind the
Never mind the