[E-Type] Most beautiful car

E-Type
41

In reply to a message from N�ck sent Sat 3 Jan 2015:

Hi,

Well I’m not here to ‘‘win’’ anything, but to discuss and
share and gain interesting information.

I too believe ND, but in addition to what Les points out,
it sure would be nice to know the details as it is also
well known that ND did not, and still does not speak
Italian and EF did not speak any English at all.

So who was the translator for anything they said?

I would have understood a few words like ‘‘bellissima’’ and
‘‘tutto mondo’’ but not more. :wink:

With the V12 OTS in Italy almost two years ago I did get
quite a few ‘‘bella machina’’ and ‘‘bella vettura’’ comments,
also from the ladies! :smiley:

Cheers,

Pekka T. - 1S20183
Fin.

PS. I think this is always interesting, because whenever
anything gets translated (I mostly write in Finnish, but
occasionally in English, Swedish or German, but no Latin
based languages) there are things that easily can go
wrong…–
The original message included these comments:

I don’t know how to defeat that argument, Les. You win.

2…we have the report from the living and breathing and universally
respected Jaguar test driver who talked to EF at the Geneva show and
states that this is what EF said.
3…this statement has never been contested by Ferrari.
To me this is waaaay beyond a reasonable doubt as to whether or not EF
did in fact state as reported.
I believe ND.
Nick Saltarelli '68 Cdn mkt E-type S1� OTS, '54 XK120SE OTS

–
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42

In reply to a message from ptelivuo sent Sun 4 Jan 2015:

So what do you want? My�t�tunto? :-)–
The original message included these comments:

anything gets translated (I mostly write in Finnish, but

–
1E75339 66 D, 1R27190 70 FHC, 79 S2 XJ12L
Gaithersburg, Maryland, United States
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43

In reply to a message from N�ck sent Sat 3 Jan 2015:

Nick oddly enough that is part of the problem. The
Jaguar ‘‘Executive’’ was none other than ND. His story is
well told in the E-50 book written and published for and by
Jaguar. The chapter is either titled ‘‘Norman Dewis to the
rescue’’ (from contents page) or ‘‘The amazing Adventures of
Norman Dewis’’ (from page 84) or ‘‘Dewis and the Dash to
Geneva’’–pick one. In this 4 page spread the accounts of
what happened in detail are found? There are quotes from
Sir William ‘’‘‘Oh, well done Dewis, you made it.’’ and Lofty
England ‘‘You’ve done a good Job Norman’’ as well as an un-
named passenger at the hill climb who evidently NND forgot
was on board and exclaimed ‘‘he (sic) wouldn’t want to do
that again’’. It is '‘recorded in this book that despite
fatigue from the long drive (a little over 14 hours) he was
the fastest man up the hill ‘‘much to the chagrin of the
Ferrari and Mercedes teams’’. Perhaps a little light is shed
in the final paragraph–’'Throughout the week, 9600HP and
77RW-both hardworking test cars rather than pampered show
models-had run like clockwork and by the end of it Dewis
was clearly king of the hill. So much so that on the last
day the Ferrari test drivers requested he demonstrate his
beautiful car to them.

Perhaps Peter is on spot with his possible situation of
test drivers in a communal setting.

When this book came out (2011) the comments of EF had not
seen ink. When I say tracing the comment was a rabbit hole
it was because I had followed the trail. The 1965 cite that
is often used was from an article written in 2012 not 1965.
Since then it has been parroted to the point we are here
today.

While historians give credence to oral history it is given
much more if it has a contemporary history. Ferrari died in
1988 and he is one of the more well quoted automotive
figures–nothing about that.

Well as Paul says it is revisionist history which may or
may not be accurate but takes nothing away from the
accomplishments of ND. You can have it both ways folks–you
can respect and admire someone but that does not mean every
utterance is gospel. In this case it seems to stretch the
imagination that in the 50 years since the introduction of
the ‘‘E’’ that NO writer of either books or any form of print
mentioned what is not being treated in print as ‘‘well
documented fact’’. (Just quoting a couple of things found on
line).

Sort of reminds me of a quote attributed to Bugatti when
asked to comment on Bentley’s race efforts pre WW2. His
compliment was ‘‘Mr Bentley makes very fast trucks’’.–
The original message included these comments:

executive at the wheel, the gunmetal grey prototype coupe left

–
George Camp
Columbia SC, United States
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44

“…Well I’m not here to ‘‘win’’ anything…”

Neither am I Pekka. Nick just likes to stick that kind of stuff in.

If there’s a “winner” here, for me it’s ND. I happen to believe in
his integrity over the statement and even though a “recording” of the
event might have yielded slightly different wording, I believe the
essence of what transpired between them supports the statement that ND
has used.

And, in this case, lest we miss the point here, he, EF, happens to be right!On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 9:51 AM, ptelivuo ptelivuo@ultirender.com wrote:

In reply to a message from Níck sent Sat 3 Jan 2015:

Hi,

Well I’m not here to ‘‘win’’ anything, but to discuss and
share and gain interesting information.

I too believe ND, but in addition to what Les points out,
it sure would be nice to know the details as it is also
well known that ND did not, and still does not speak
Italian and EF did not speak any English at all.

So who was the translator for anything they said?

I would have understood a few words like ‘‘bellissima’’ and
‘‘tutto mondo’’ but not more. :wink:

With the V12 OTS in Italy almost two years ago I did get
quite a few ‘‘bella machina’’ and ‘‘bella vettura’’ comments,
also from the ladies! :smiley:

Cheers,

Pekka T. - 1S20183
Fin.

PS. I think this is always interesting, because whenever
anything gets translated (I mostly write in Finnish, but
occasionally in English, Swedish or German, but no Latin
based languages) there are things that easily can go
wrong…

The original message included these comments:

I don’t know how to defeat that argument, Les. You win.

2…we have the report from the living and breathing and universally
respected Jaguar test driver who talked to EF at the Geneva show and
states that this is what EF said.
3…this statement has never been contested by Ferrari.
To me this is waaaay beyond a reasonable doubt as to whether or not EF
did in fact state as reported.
I believe ND.
Nick Saltarelli '68 Cdn mkt E-type S1½ OTS, '54 XK120SE OTS

–
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–
Les…'68 S1.5 2+2

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45

Here’s some interesting reading about Ferrari. Some indications that
he did in fact understand and speak English…

http://www.theautochannel.com/publications/magazines/forza/number10/pg54.frame

and another from an interview with his English secretary…
“A number of people — English speaking racing drivers and journalists
and others who knew Ferrari quite well — maintain that he understood
every word of English even though he only spoke Italian. That’s not
true. He neither spoke nor understood English; but he did speak
French…”

Here’s the link from which the aforementioned was taken…

Using the same logic we’ve used to dissect ND’s statement, it would be
hard to believe that having spent so much time hiring and being in
contact with his English speaking drivers, that he didn’t either
understand or speak the language at all.On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 9:51 AM, ptelivuo ptelivuo@ultirender.com wrote:

In reply to a message from Níck sent Sat 3 Jan 2015:

Hi,

Well I’m not here to ‘‘win’’ anything, but to discuss and
share and gain interesting information.

I too believe ND, but in addition to what Les points out,
it sure would be nice to know the details as it is also
well known that ND did not, and still does not speak
Italian and EF did not speak any English at all.

So who was the translator for anything they said?

I would have understood a few words like ‘‘bellissima’’ and
‘‘tutto mondo’’ but not more. :wink:

With the V12 OTS in Italy almost two years ago I did get
quite a few ‘‘bella machina’’ and ‘‘bella vettura’’ comments,
also from the ladies! :smiley:

Cheers,

Pekka T. - 1S20183
Fin.

PS. I think this is always interesting, because whenever
anything gets translated (I mostly write in Finnish, but
occasionally in English, Swedish or German, but no Latin
based languages) there are things that easily can go
wrong…

The original message included these comments:

I don’t know how to defeat that argument, Les. You win.

2…we have the report from the living and breathing and universally
respected Jaguar test driver who talked to EF at the Geneva show and
states that this is what EF said.
3…this statement has never been contested by Ferrari.
To me this is waaaay beyond a reasonable doubt as to whether or not EF
did in fact state as reported.
I believe ND.
Nick Saltarelli '68 Cdn mkt E-type S1½ OTS, '54 XK120SE OTS

–
MKV 3.5L DHC, E V12 OTS, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
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–
Les…'68 S1.5 2+2

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46

In reply to a message from Les Halls sent Sun 4 Jan 2015:

but always with a friendly smile, Les.–
The original message included these comments:

Neither am I Pekka. Nick just likes to stick that kind of stuff in.

–
Nick Saltarelli '68 Cdn mkt E-type S1� OTS, '54 XK120SE OTS
Niagara, Ontario, Canada
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47

In reply to a message from PeterCrespin sent Sun 4 Jan 2015:

Ahh, don’t we all want that?!?! :slight_smile:

Yes, you’re all right, and you’re alright! :smiley:

EF must have understood some English, sure, but he did not
speak any, he always had a secretary with him. In Geneva the
official languages were French and German, although Italian
is also an official language in Switzerland and English is
not.

Nowadays pretty much everyone in Europe speaks English, but
very few people did back in the 50’s and 60’s. Typically at
school the generation of my parents would learn German, and
some French perhaps, in addition to the official languages.
Now our oldest daughter has everything in high school in
English, except her native language, which is Swedish. (it’s
an IB program)

But I would like to see some print from 1961/1962 with
anything in any language that would tie EF to the Geneva
event. I know he was there and I know Norman was there as he
drove 77RW there:

BTW 885002 was also driven there, like has been written many
times, but 885005 was not, it was trailered, I have copies
of photos taken at the palace when Jaguar’s cars arrived, a
truck had a home made looking trailer with the E-type and a
MK2 on it.

Check this PDF out:

http://www.jaguarclassic.ch/pdf/Jaguar-Tribune-885005.pdf

It shows the photos of 885005 as it arrived in Geneva and
how it was unloaded etc.

Cheers!

Pekka T. - 1S20183
fin.–
The original message included these comments:

So what do you want? My�t�tunto? :slight_smile:
1E75339 66 D, 1R27190 70 FHC, 79 S2 XJ12L
Gaithersburg, Maryland, United States

–
MKV 3.5L DHC, E V12 OTS, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
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48

There’s a video showing Norman Dewis telling that Enzo Ferrari told him: “What a
beautiful car… We’ve made nothing better than that. There’s only one thing
wrong with it… It doesn’t have a Ferrari badge”.
From 52’20" on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzoolNs7sHQ
B
887406

Le 03/01/2015 23:55, ptelivuo a �crit :

I don’t.:slight_smile: I said I don’t doubt his memory, but we do not
know who told him that and when. Most likely it was in
March 1961 in Geneva, but who translated what Enzo had
said?
…______________________________________________________
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49

George,
I’m rather sure it’s not Norman Dewis who drove 9600HP from Coventry to Geneva,
but Bob Berry, Jaguar’s PR chief and pilot himself.
B

Le 04/01/2015 17:17, George Camp a �crit :> Nick oddly enough that is part of the problem. The

Jaguar ‘‘Executive’’ was none other than ND. His story is
well told in the E-50 book written and published for and by
Jaguar.

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50

In reply to a message from Bob sent Sun 4 Jan 2015:

Yes my comments were to the subject at hand. BB drove one
and ND drove the other.–
The original message included these comments:

George,
I’m rather sure it’s not Norman Dewis who drove 9600HP from Coventry to Geneva,
but Bob Berry, Jaguar’s PR chief and pilot himself.

–
George Camp
Columbia SC, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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51

In reply to a message from Bob sent Sun 4 Jan 2015:

That quote is, to me, FAR more believable, and VERY
different from the usual quote. I just have a REALLY hard
time believing Enzo would EVER give some other makers car
credit for being MORE beautiful than ANY of his, or anyone
else’s, creations. That just seems quite far-fetched to
me…–
The original message included these comments:

There’s a video showing Norman Dewis telling that Enzo Ferrari told him: ‘‘What a
beautiful car… We’ve made nothing better than that. There’s only one thing
wrong with it… It doesn’t have a Ferrari badge’’.
From 52’20’’ on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzoolNs7sHQ
887406

–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
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52

In reply to a message from Bob sent Sun 4 Jan 2015:

Hi,

Yes, Norman drove 77RW (850003), as quoted above and well
documented many times, including the re-run for the 50th
anniversary etc. BB drove 885002 aka 9600HP, then still LHD.
885005 was trailered with a lorry (truck).

The thing that many people have wondered however, was why
there were two coup�s at Geneva. One theory has been that
there was a mistake of some sort in communications (perhaps
between Lyons himself and BB) and thus Norman had to leave
Coventry very quickly and drive the open car to Geneva.
Remember that in those days overseas communication was based
on letters and in urgent cases with telegrams and later with
faximiles than with expensive long distance calls. The good
part with those is that most often they can then later be
found in the archives.

I’ll see if I can find a chance to chat him up later this
year. :slight_smile:

Cheers,

Pekka T. - 1S20183
Fin.–
The original message included these comments:

George,
I’m rather sure it’s not Norman Dewis who drove 9600HP from Coventry to Geneva,
but Bob Berry, Jaguar’s PR chief and pilot himself.

–
MKV 3.5L DHC, E V12 OTS, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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53

I thought that the reason an additional car had to get to Geneva was because the car was such a hit that they needed another car to meet the demands of people wanting demo rides.Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2015, at 3:20 PM, ptelivuo ptelivuo@ultirender.com wrote:

In reply to a message from Bob sent Sun 4 Jan 2015:

Hi,

Yes, Norman drove 77RW (850003), as quoted above and well
documented many times, including the re-run for the 50th
anniversary etc. BB drove 885002 aka 9600HP, then still LHD.
885005 was trailered with a lorry (truck).

The thing that many people have wondered however, was why
there were two coupés at Geneva. One theory has been that
there was a mistake of some sort in communications (perhaps
between Lyons himself and BB) and thus Norman had to leave
Coventry very quickly and drive the open car to Geneva.
Remember that in those days overseas communication was based
on letters and in urgent cases with telegrams and later with
faximiles than with expensive long distance calls. The good
part with those is that most often they can then later be
found in the archives.

I’ll see if I can find a chance to chat him up later this
year. :slight_smile:

Cheers,

Pekka T. - 1S20183
Fin.

–
The original message included these comments:

George,
I’m rather sure it’s not Norman Dewis who drove 9600HP from Coventry to Geneva,
but Bob Berry, Jaguar’s PR chief and pilot himself.

–
MKV 3.5L DHC, E V12 OTS, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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54

In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Sun 4 Jan 2015:

Quite right, Ray. Norman Dewis doesn’t actually quote the now
famous words. But is it really very different? Examine the dialogue
of the film during those few seconds to figure out the context of
Norman’s punchline:

52:00, Graham Robson: ‘‘Geneva Motor Show, 1961, ‘Good grief what’s
this!?’ the most beautiful car in the world appeared, bang! From
Jaguar. The E-type.’’

52:15, Quentin Willson: ‘‘This car is literally a poem in steel, and
still one of the most beautiful cars ever made in the world. Full
stop. End of sentence. Roll off.’’

52:25, Norman Dewis: '‘When Enzo Ferrari saw the car, he said ‘What
a beautiful car! We’ve made nothing better than that!’ He
said ‘There’s only one thing wrong with it, Norman’’ and I
said ‘‘What’s that?’’ and he said ‘‘it doesn’t have a Ferrari badge!’’

If that is not a deliberate or at least oblique reference to the
current meme then I agree we are still looking for attribution. I
see Pekka’s going to settle it for us. Edge of my chair, baited
breath.–
The original message included these comments:

That quote is, to me, FAR more believable, and VERY
different from the usual quote. I just have a REALLY hard
time believing Enzo would EVER give some other makers car
credit for being MORE beautiful than ANY of his, or anyone
else’s, creations. That just seems quite far-fetched to

–
Nick Saltarelli '68 Cdn mkt E-type S1� OTS, '54 XK120SE OTS
Niagara, Ontario, Canada
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55

In reply to a message from Les Halls sent Sun 4 Jan 2015:

Hi,

AFAIK he (ND) started from Coventry before the Geneva Salon
was officially opened. And as it took them some time to get
in contact with him (or they didn’t, someone from the
factory had informed Norman’s missus who had packed a bag
for him so he could leave for Geneva immediately after a
long hard day of test driving… :slight_smile: the decision had been
made some time before, but apparently after 9600HP and BB
and Lyons had arrived in Geneva to prepare the show.
(once someone realized that they had two FHC’s and no open
car there)

And it took him obviously a very long night to get there in
those days. Driving was fast but the ferry was slow. I have
an article about the trip somewhere, explaining in detail
the restoration of 850003 and both the original and the
anniversary drive to Geneva.

Cheers,

Pekka T. - 1S20183
Fin.–
The original message included these comments:

I thought that the reason an additional car had to get to Geneva was because the car was such a hit that they needed another car to meet the demands of people wanting demo rides.
Sent from my iPhone

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56

In reply to a message from N�ck sent Sun 4 Jan 2015:

This the version I find least convincing, between two non-
speakers of each other’s languages at very different
levels in competing companies.

As written it’s not a mere exclamation, it’s banter or a
casual chat between friends/equals well used to each
other’s company. I don’t see EF in that mode other than
with Italian CEOs but That is of course pure speculation
on my part. I think the different versions suggest
somebody at Ferrari said something complimentary to Notman
about the E. Exactly who and exactly which of the
dialogues (if any) that have been reported down the years
is something we’ll have to get Pekka to winkle out of
Norman some time…

I could believe it in a race paddock between Lofty and an
equivalent-level Ferrari person, or Lyons and EF. It
doesn’t of course include the words of this thread title
so it does have that going for it.–
The original message included these comments:

52:25, Norman Dewis: '‘When Enzo Ferrari saw the car, he said ‘What
a beautiful car! We’ve made nothing better than that!’ He
said ‘There’s only one thing wrong with it, Norman’’ and I
said ‘‘What’s that?’’ and he said ‘‘it doesn’t have a Ferrari badge!’’

–
1E75339 66 D, 1R27190 70 FHC, 79 S2 XJ12L
Gaithersburg, Maryland, United States
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57

Pekka,
The one who was called to drive urgently another coup� (9600HP) to Geneva was
Bob Berry.
The original article is there:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/JAGUAR-E-TYPE-9600HP-BOB-BERRY-Original-Article-2000-/161529024584
and CMC who restored the car says it too:
http://www.classic-motor-cars.co.uk/images/article%20pdfs/1vhp.pdf
B

Le 04/01/2015 21:20, ptelivuo a �crit :> In reply to a message from Bob sent Sun 4 Jan 2015:

Hi,

Yes, Norman drove 77RW (850003), as quoted above and well
documented many times, including the re-run for the 50th
anniversary etc. BB drove 885002 aka 9600HP, then still LHD.
885005 was trailered with a lorry (truck).

The thing that many people have wondered however, was why
there were two coup�s at Geneva. One theory has been that
there was a mistake of some sort in communications (perhaps
between Lyons himself and BB) and thus Norman had to leave
Coventry very quickly and drive the open car to Geneva.
Remember that in those days overseas communication was based
on letters and in urgent cases with telegrams and later with
faximiles than with expensive long distance calls. The good
part with those is that most often they can then later be
found in the archives.

I’ll see if I can find a chance to chat him up later this
year. :slight_smile:

Cheers,

Pekka T. - 1S20183
Fin.

–
The original message included these comments:

George,
I’m rather sure it’s not Norman Dewis who drove 9600HP from Coventry to Geneva,
but Bob Berry, Jaguar’s PR chief and pilot himself.
–
MKV 3.5L DHC, E V12 OTS, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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58

In reply to a message from PeterCrespin sent Sun 4 Jan 2015:

Ferrari made some, for their time, very sophisticated machines viz
engines, gearboxes, suspensions, steering, etc. One cannot help but
think of the contemporary 250 GT, 400 Superamerica, 330 Testarossa.
The XK is a great engine, but better than those 3 and 4 litre V12
power plants? Hmmm. On hearing that Cavaliere Ferrari admitted to
have made nothing better than the E-type I was inclined to raise a
skeptical eyebrow. Troppo vino, forse?–
The original message included these comments:

52:25, Norman Dewis: ''When Enzo Ferrari saw the car, he said ‘What
a beautiful car! We’ve made nothing better than that!’ He

–
Nick Saltarelli '68 Cdn mkt E-type S1� OTS, '54 XK120SE OTS
Niagara, Ontario, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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59

In reply to a message from Bob sent Sun 4 Jan 2015:

Hi,

Possibly yes, but Norman was called to drive 850003 (reg.
RW77) even more urgently from Coventry to Geneva. This is
because that decision was made after 885002 (reg. 9600HP)
had already arrived in Geneva.

I don’t have the article (about 77RW) with me and I can not
share it in public, but I can later PM you and anyone
interested if you like. Just let me know, ok.

A good thing the article with period photos of 885005 is
available on-line as PDF. Those photos speak a million words
IMO. Ok, I am a visual person. :slight_smile:

Cheers,

Pekka T. - 1S20183
Fin.–
The original message included these comments:

Pekka,
The one who was called to drive urgently another coup� (9600HP) to Geneva was
Bob Berry.
The original article is there:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/JAGUAR-E-TYPE-9600HP-BOB-BERRY-Original-Article-2000-/161529024584
and CMC who restored the car says it too:
http://www.classic-motor-cars.co.uk/images/article%20pdfs/1vhp.pdf

–
MKV 3.5L DHC, E V12 OTS, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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60

In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Thu 1 Jan 2015:

Hi guys,

I talked with Norman two days ago, on Sunday.
I just wanted to try and clear things out as much as possible.

It does not cease to amaze me that he always tells the same
things almost word by word just as quoted or written.

The somewhat missing information that I got now first hand was:

a) Enzo always had an interpreter with him. I do not know
who, and neither could Norman tell me who it was, but it
does seem very likely he (Enzo) did not wonder around alone,
but always was accompanied by some colleagues or associates.

b) Norman said he does speak some Italian, which wouldn’t be
too surprising if he raced several times in Italy, already
in the early 1950’s.

Anyways the bottom line is that he told me Enzo Ferrari had
said this at the Geneva show when visiting the Jaguar stand.
He said Enzo had said: ‘‘This (the car at the stand) is the
most beautiful car in the world!’’.

Then he said Enzo had added: ‘‘What a beautiful car, it’s a
shame we haven’t done anything prettier. But do you know
there is one thing wrong with it? It does not have a Ferrari
badge!’’ :smiley:

If Norman himself did not understand all of that in Italian,
then there was a person who translated what Enzo was saying,
which according to Norman was what he has said before.

I don’t doubt his memory. It seems to work better than mine!
(I wrote this down at Stoneleigh, UK)

Cheers,

Pekka T. - 1S20183
Fin.–
The original message included these comments:

Really? How do you know Norman heard it? I’ve seen it
quoted all over the place, very, very rarely with ANY
attribution whatsoever, and I’ve NEVER heard that Norman
heard it first-hand…
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States

–
MKV 3.5L DHC, E V12 OTS, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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