E-Type toolkit quality

I think an amazingly good buy for only USD1192 – I would have paid more as a spare as I don’t actually NEED another 4.2 E-type Kit, but it’s rare now to see genuinely correct/original tools in excellent original condition, thus the $4000 offering being COMPLETE. Whoever got this one will be happy, and as you say, so will be the vendor – nice surprise if you are not up with going market interest/values.

Most of what you see on Ebay now is rubbish in the USD1000 to USD1500 range, and usually still significant problems in the USD1500 to USD2000 range, but as always, it depends on what you want – I guess IKEA tools are a lot cheaper.

Let me know please if you see it relisted, with missing tools added!

Roger

Roger Payne

8 Beggs Place

MACARTHUR ACT 2904

Australia

Email: mailto:rogerpayne@bigblue.net.au rogerpayne@bigblue.net.au

I would have let you know but I was leading the bidding when I went to bed last night! (Aust time)

The way Ebay works you never get to know what the winning bidders maximum price was unfortunately.

I guess the lesson here is that I need to start going to estate auctions.

what is the value in US$ for a complete original tool kit?

There is no simple, nor right/wrong answer to your question re values.

I presume you have a 1969MY USA specification roadster - if so, your car would not have been supplied new with any tool-roll/kit, but would have received all the Wheel-Changing-Equipment - thus Jack and Handle, Knock-off Mallet and bronze-tool, and just a box-spanner and tommy-bar for changing sparking-plugs, all kept together inside a black canvas-like (Rexine) Satchel.
But all Series 2 E-types sold new to UK, Australia and all other markets DID get a tool-roll/kit as well, but it was smaller and less tools included than the two tool-kits pictured/referred to for Series 1 E-types (including of course Series 1-1/2, but not USA 1968MY Federal cars)

So value depends totally on supply and demand and just what someone is prepared to pay. If you want the best, with respect to exact accuracy of each tool for your exact year of car, and in top condition - then you will have to pay accordingly as such top-quality tool-kits are very-rarely available to buy. If you just want something just near enough, or not all that near enough, expect to pay a lot less.

Value also varies with associated value of car - thus a correct 1961 E-type tool-kit is worth a lot more than a Series 2 or V12 E-type tool-kit.

So its all very subjective, and very much of exactly what do you want if you are a potential buyer.

In my opinion the 1965/6 4.2 E-type kit with the few tools missing, but what was there was CORRECT and in excellent original condition, was well worth the USD1192 it sold for, and as I said, if I had have seen it I would have paid more - just to have as a spare, as I do have all the missing correct tools I could add to make it complete. The other kit listed for $Aus4000 (actually GBP2600) is also for a 1965 E-type and is a lot better by being complete, and again all tools are in excellent original condition and not restored, with vendor offering to substitute specific tools to make it correct for other-than 1965, and as I said earlier is probably the best E-type tool kit (re accuracy and excellent original condition) I have seen offered on Ebay, but its not for me to say if it will sell quickly/first-time at that amount or not - he needs to find a very discerning buyer prepared to pay his price who is currently looking or aware of this being offered now.

Or as before, most offerings you see on eBay include wrong tools, reproduction tools usually poorly done, missing tools or a combination of all, and then you have to look at condition of what is there, with many damaged and rusty tools beyond good restoration, and restored tools usually poorly done. But then vendors still want good money for them, with a regular supply of either ignorant buyers or indeed buyers just happy enough to have something approximating an E-type tool-kit.

This is part of the reason I am writing my paper on E-Type Tool-Kits, so if people do want correct tools/tool-kit for their particular year/model E-type, the detailed information will soon be readily available, for both buyers, and of course vendors. Not that that will stop the usual rubbish being offered on eBay whilst there is still cashed-up buyers without the knowledge or don’t really care, and a shortage of good-quality offerings to consider.

So sorry - no simple answer.

It’s worth pointing out that the seller of the tools set sold on E Bay last night did not identify them being E-type correct. Hence there was no way to seek compensation if the tools were wrong or modern re manufactures. I was bidding on that basis and limited myself to A$1k.

Hi Roger,
Please allow me to visit from over on the XK list.
I hope I am uploading three pictures of a tool kit which I had previously inadvertently bought, thinking they were for an XK140. They are of course not from an XK.
I believe they are actually from an early EType though. The toolkit appears to be complete, and the individual tools appear to be unrefinished.
However, the smallest open end wrench is a TW, while the others are two SSP, and one Snail Brand. The Dunlop tin did not come with this tool kit.
So, perhaps I should look for a SSP or Snail open end to replace the TW version.
Thanks in advance on any comments anyone may have regarding this tool kit.

Gary,

My original tool kit had a mix of spanner brands, no reason to think this group is not also original (on the face of it).

Jerry

G’day Gary.
The bad news you already know - its most definitely NOT an XK140 Tool-Kit, indeed there is nothing at all included within this kit that is correct for an XK140, with all tools despite many having the same part number, have evolved into quite different later tools, such as all your open-ended spanners none being the XK140 GARRINGTON brand. The good or compensating news is it is indeed an excellent/original E-type tool-kit that I can confidently date as being very late 1964 3.8 E-type, possibly very early 4.2 E-type from late 1964. The only tools-missing - are your Valve-Timing-Gauge, which actually would have been common to XK140, and your Grease-Gun, and indeed in 1964 E-type tool-kits also received a spare duplex-fan(water-pump)belt.
One tool I cannot 100% identify, and actually a critical tool re dating is your tyre-pressure gauge. Clearly with Jaguar-Wings inscribed, but can you picture or describe the screw-out end-cap on your graduated slide.
Otherwise tool-kit does date from a fairly messy transitional period, so the mix of late and earlier tools comes together to give my ‘late-1964’ dating albeit pushing limits of two tools that I don’t have a monthly accuracy last-appearance of, and a monthly accuracy first-appearance off.
The other MOST interesting aspect is this 1964 E-type Tool-Kit still includes the Handbrake Adjusting Allen Key, no longer required from 1962 onwards after introduction of self adjusting handbrake, so a factory error still including it, albeit I have confirmed enough of these now in original E-type tool-kits 1961 to early 1968 that I have concluded they SHOULD be included in an ‘authentic’ E-type tool-kit, even if a factory inclusion error.

Your mix of TW, SNAIL BRAND and SSP spanners is unusual to have three brands, but can be found 1964/5 only, with the overwhelming majority of E-type tool-kits having a mix of two brands only, and rarely a set-of-four all of a matching brand, albeit many owners like to have a matching set - which is OK/is authentic - if the right brand for year of E-type.

Appreciate yo confirming Tyre-Pressure-Gauge detail - I have a huge spread-sheet where I like to fully document all detail of as many good/original tool-kits as I can, XK and E-type. Only way to get a feel/conclusions over this demarcation detail, but helped a huge amount if tool-kit is ex a known/dateable XK or E-type, albeit not the information you get from eBay purchases.

Roger

Roger:

I’ve been popping in from time to time reading this thread. Apparently you are THE tool expert here so I have a few questions, if you have the time. When I bought the FHC it did have some tools in a bag, Nothing like a complete tool kit however. Can you look at the below pictures and tell me what I have?

First off a feeler gauge. I don’t think it’s Jaguar but really have no idea.

Tubular wrench and Jaguar screwdriver, obviously Jaguar.

Last, some wrenches. The top one is obviously Jaguar, second from the top says “Gedore” on the reverse side. The others are Heyco. If the Gedore and Heyco aren’t parts of a Jaguar tool kit, do you know anything else about them?

G’day John,

I checked your tag (I am learning) and see you are from Arkansaw ( and you will hate how I used to pronounce that phonetically, until I heard it pronounced by an American), so bottom line is we are talking about your USA Specification Series 2 E-type.
USA Specification Series 2 E-types DID NOT get any Tool-Kit/Roll at all, as did all other markets for Series 2 E-types.
But USA cars still did get their Wheel-Changing-Equipment - a Jack and Jack-Handle, a Lead-Mallet, and a bronze-tool for your ‘earless’ knock-off Hub-Nuts (Spinners), all housed neatly in a Rexine material Container that was stowed within your spare-wheel compartment. IN addition being part compensation for not getting any Tool-Kit/Roll that had all the small hand-tools, you also got just the Box-spanner (for Sparking-Plugs) and its long (9-1/2") Tommy-Bar that presumably were also housed loosely within the Jack Container. If your particular Series 2 had disc-wheels, and not the more usual Wire-Wheels, instead of getting the Lead-Hammer and bronze Hub-Nut tool, you instead got a Wheel-Brace and a Hub-Cap lever. With all these tools the detail does vary a little over the Series 2 years, but the name/title remains the same.

So all your pictured tools:-
The simple answer is that none of them belong to your particular Series 2 E-type, EXCEPT the pictured tubular-wrench as you call it, the factory and I call it a BOX-SPANNER is the correct 1/2"BSF x 3/4" AF box-spanner as supplied for the Sparking Plugs (1/2" BSF end), but don’t try and ever use the 3/4" AF end, supposedly for the Cylinder-Head Chrome/Domed Nuts - you will break the box-spanner before undoing any cylinder-head nuts.

The FEELER GAUGE, Screwdriver and Five open-ended spanners are all Jaguar, but from different models both earlier and later than your Series 2.

The Feeler Gauge suits 1945-1949 Mark IV and Mark V saloon only, indeed if you don’t want this I have a friend who only asked me yesterday to find him one for his Mark V - will buy or swap. (let me know direct at rogerpayne@bigblue.net.au if you are happy to part with the feeler-gauge)

The Screw-driver is a little hard to be sure of in your photo, but being Phillips Head if blade is FIXED it suits Mark 10 saloon only, and nothing else, so has little value, but if the blade pulls out as was provided with these combination screwdrivers having two interchangeable blades - Phillips head and Straight-blade head, then it is 1963 to 1968 Series 1 E-type correct, and also for same age Mark 2 / S-type/ 340/ 420 tool-kits all you need to do is locate the matching Straight-blade insert.

The Five Open-Ended spanners - the top-one is 3/4"AF x 7/8"AF GARRINGTON brand and suits 1950s and 1960s tool-kits, 1951 to 1964, saloons and XK140/150 and 3.8 E-type tool-kits (but not XK120 and not 4.2E), so again most useful.

The second from top marked No.895 is most definitely HEYCO manufacture, but this appears to be a ring in and not Jaguar relevant - maybe a Mercedes tool-kit?

The last three, all HEYCO are from early 1970s XJ and V12 E-type tool-kits, but again USA market V12 E-types did not get any tool-kit/roll, but they would be of interest to any non-USA V12 E-type owners missing any tools.

Thanks Roger.

“Box Spanner” Thanks, I couldn’t remember the proper name. :smile:

I knew Series II came sans tool kits. Proper for the series or not I think it’s kind of a nice to have one since it’s piece of Jaguar history. But I’m not on any immediate search for a complete roll or individual tools.

When I got the car I got a well used lead hammer, the federal knockoff tool, a Jaguar jack that definitely is not the correct jack and the tools we’ve already discussed. I did a bit of modification to the business end of the jack; made a fitting out of steel angle to fit over the square jacking point on the FHC so it is at least serviceable. The bag also had a pliers that are the square end with a wire cutter, blue plastic coated handles, no markings. most likely generic hardware store items.

The screw driver is one with the removable shaft. As you note it’s a pity I don’t have the slotted attachment.

The reverse side of the second from the top is marked Gedore, and “Made in Germany” see below photo. Does that take it out of the running as a Jaguar tool?

Regarding the feeler gauge: I’ll send you a note.

G’day John,

A big aspect of understanding jaguar tools is having a good handle on the various manufacturing/supplying companies, their brand-names, and manufacturing styles,and indeed company take-overs/rebranding. Although I have done a lot of research into the British company progression, I have only just touched on German companies who first supplied Jaguar with the GEDORE branded 4" Adjustable Spanner in late 1964. Quite amazing for Jaguar Cars Ltd, as they were in 1964, to have sourced anything from Germany, with foreign sourced items only done under emergency reasons, such as when the first issue Mark 2 Handbooks were sourced from Belgium, during the 1959 UK Printers strike. Makes me wonder why Jaguar introduced the GEDORE branded adjustable? But as far as I have looked so far GEDORE was either taken over, a merger, or a subsidiary part of the Gedore Werkzeugfabrik Otto Dowidat KG major German tool-making company, better known supplying tools under their prolific DOWIDAT branding.

At this stage I haven’t looked into later mergers/takeovers with German tool-making companies, so no idea yet of how GEDORE branded spanners relate to HEYCO branded spanners, with these examples clearly from the same physical manufacturer if not branding.

But although these GEDORE spanners clearly exist, and who knows when and to whom they were supplied, I have seen no evidence to date of ever being supplied to Jaguar for any model Tool-Kit, but indeed the HEYCO branded spanners most certainly were for a few years in both AF and Metric sized open-enders.

I am only guessing the GEDORE may be ex some German brand marque tool-kit, and indeed am aware Mercedes used HEYCO branded spanners also, so maybe that’s also origin of this GEDORE spanner.

Once I really get into my Series 2 and V12 E-type Tool-Kits research I will follow up on what I can find re GEDORE and HEYCO relationship, albeit not speaking/reading German wont make things easy.

Thanks again Roger.

You got me curious and I found this:

http://www.mbzponton.org/valueadded/maintenance/MB_Tool_Kits.pdf

Looking at that material it dawned on me. Mercedes supplied metric sized tools on their cars.

Good web-site if you are interested in Mercedes.

Certainly, a distinctive German style to all these German brand tools – probably some local DIN standard.

We regularly find spanners with MERCEDES BENZ on them here locally at swap meets so I have grabbed a few, but not a lot of interest in them, so cheap enough to buy… But then for some reason there is a big following for VW-Beetle tools, and priced accordingly – probably a case of the VW Tool-Kit being a very rare option, and not standard equipment to all 15 million made – but there is good information readily available on these.

Hi Roger,
Glad to reply, however, please remember that I bought this toolkit from someone who didn’t know what it was, and also at the time I didn’t know what the toolkit was. So there is no way to know if any of these tools have been replaced by someone previously.
Anyhow, the pressure gauge screw-out end cap is shaped like a sombrero, on top of a threaded portion of an unthreaded shank. The bottom of the shank is slotted. There is an axial blind hole in the bottom of the shank, to allow a tire valve stem to enter. The end cap is non-magnetic, and sort of feels and appears as if it may be made of aluminum.

The gauge bears patent number 418693, which dates from 1934, so clearly the gauge couldn’t have been manufactured before 1934. The body of the gauge appears to be brass, visible in a small spot where the plating has worn away.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Gary, Your Tyre Gauge is as expected, albeit I am more inclined to say Tool-Kit is now more probably very early 4.2 E-type tool-kit from last months of 1964, maybe even just into 1965, rather than one of the last 3.8 E-type tool-kits from late-1964.
The main issue is your Garrington Adjustable, that theoretically had been superseded by the next GEDORE brand from the tart of 4.2 E-type, albeit I suspect some Garrington carry-over/overlap in late 1964. I know you cant guarantee all contents, but tool-kit ‘feels’ OK, and realistically this late 1964 period has a number of vagaries/overlaps.

Be nice to have some more known-original-toolkits from known-original 1964 build E-types.

The added DUNLOP container as you advised - is definitely correct item for this kit.

Roger

My tool kit has Jaguar printed on it but I actually won’t use it, since it will definitely damage my nuts. It is very poor quality. Bobby

Thanks for that Gary.
I agree - don’t use your JAGUAR tool-kit, too valuable to actually use, when you can buy good quality tools to actually use far cheaper. But I disagree re your quality comment - Jaguar tools of the 1950s and 1960s were excellent quality for the period, and were all made to the prevailing British Standards which amongst other specifications, required use of only highest quality alloy steels. Indeed 1950s/60s Jaguar Tools are better quality than the vast majority of tools on offer today, apart from the few premium brands (USA/Europe) that still believe in quality rather than massive volumes of cheap-rubbish manufactured and coming out of China and other Eastern/Asian countries, even if sold under Western brand names in USA/Europe/Australia.
All my Whitworth/BSF spanners and sockets for instance are made by BRITOOL, made in 1970s/80s when Britool was still one of THE worlds premium tool-brands, and indeed BRITOOL was one of the suppliers to Jaguar in the 1950s/60s, albeit not that convinced modern Britool are still in premium category. Not sure if any of the other 1950s/60s brands supplied to Jaguar still survive today. All my AF spanners and sockets are SNAP-ON, and all my metric spanners and sockets are STAHL-WIHLE, albeit Australian made SIDCHROME - once a premium quality tool in 1950s/70s, are now all made in China and are middle-of-the-road at best.

Hi Roger

I agree with your comments. British tools are generally good. I may have fake Jaguar set. Lucky I have plenty Sidchrome spanners to do the work.

I try to stand far enough back from my work to where this doesn’t happen…

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