Any experience with ball joints ’ up and lower’ from MOOG ? They are very affordable and it seems to be a reputable company in suspension hardware , originary from the US but in Europe also since a decade.
Any feedback appreciated, Im now waiting for delivery but can always return at autodoc.com
As we are here, on the front springs and the need to use a spring compressor - it seems to me that with the hub Axle removed it would just be necessary to disconnect the schock absober and the torsion bar Link, then lower carefuly the jack as in the picture, to replace the spring. This seems to have been reported earlier by someone .
My worry is if there is any danger that the spring will jump aside, as it is more compressed in the interior part than the exterior due to the way the lower arm pivots ?
Moog was once reliably considered high grade stuff. Nowadays…I’m not so sure. It’s hard to know what you’re actually buying thanks to endless label-engineering, global manufacturing and distributing, ever-changing corporate ownership, etc.
If you can bear the extra expense use Lemforder ball joints; they’re still the gold standard as far as I know.
If you use the Moog I’m sure you’ll be OK. Nothing bad will happen. But they might not last as long as Lemforder. Depending on your intended use of the car this might not be an actual issue.
I would not remove and replace the spring in the manner you’ve described. Too risky for me. There are many good threads on safe spring removal and spring compressors.
It already looks dangerous as it is.
And the spring is ‚bent‘ and under tension, not for any money in the world. If I were you I would pass a threaded rod through the spring pan now in case the jack fails you.
If you have time you want to order the cheap ones and in case they don’t last long you have the means to replace them for yourself, so that’s what I would do.
I second what Doug stated; I would not attempt to remove the spring in that manner. The curvature of the spring as the lower arm pivots downward will likely result in the spring exiting outward under considerable energy.
The Jaguar front springs are compressed a large amount and what works on some other vehicles would not be safe.
The spring is under such tension that without the weight of the powertrain it is not possible to compress the spring enough to start the thread for the ball joint. I had tremendous respect for the spring even before it broke my finger, just look at them when extended and compare the size of the spring to other cars… do it the right way, with threaded rods, take your time.
Many thanks Doug, for yet another very helpful feedback .
I will then leave the springs in place , will just use some rust removal and paint to treat superficial oxidation at the lower part of the spring and spring pan .
I have done maybe 8000 miles with the XJ6 for the last 10 years and Moog are ordered so I will then use these but will well note Lamforder for any further needs also on the etype .
Thank.you also David @davidsxj6 and Robert, @RGK20m3 .
I will then leave the springs in place . Actually the one original scope of this intervention was only to replace the rubber gaiters is the ball joints , long gone , then decided also to redo calipers and innow wanted to take the opportunity to fix superficial rust on lower part of springs / spring pan but will, instead, do some cleaning with the springs in place with rust remover and paint protection .
I know how it would go anyways: if I remove the springs I will take the opportunity to remove lower arm , then cross member , then steering rack, and soon the car would be in pieces anyway . As it happened with the IRS of the e-type and the broken spring of the handbrake . Good I did that though on the IRS, done now.
I would fill the spring pan with wax afterwards. I didn’t do much to mine, vacuumed it and then soaked it with oil and if I ever get to it I‘ll use a lot of wax, probably.
Moog, yes i install them in all my XJ’s and yes there is a danger of the spring popping out if your jack slips and the spring decompreases. Ive done exactly what you show in the picture but once all the weight of the car was on the jack i ran a heavy duty rachet strap around the spring and lower control arm and snugged it up in a feeble attempt of false security that the ratchet strap would keep the spring in place.
As luck would have it, I survived that ball joint replacement to be take out by the next.
It been a while since I’ve done one all that i remember, that it was like giving birth, it was painful, but not enough to keep me from doing it again. So I’m told… i think the swaybar endlink and shock has be removed to gsin access to the balljoint nut; and getting the nut off is a pita and should be done before breaking the taper. If the spring is not fully compressed when th taper connection is broken it will be on the nut making it impossible get off. Also if the taper is broken while the nut is still tight, this too will be a challenge because the ball joint will just spin with the nut. My next YouTube series will be the front suspension.
So back off the balljoint nylock nut to where the nylon isnt in contact with the threads make sure the spiing is compressed break the taper and move the rotor assembly up off the ball joint then nend the lock tabs of the nolts and remove the 4 bolts securiing the bottom balljoint it will then just fall out.
If this is an OE balljoint meaning a multi piece balloont, then the upper seat will still be in place, prohibitingthe replacementto be installed. Take the ball joint turn it upside down ao the ball is resting in the upperbseat in the lower control arm give it a wack with a hammr to remove the ball seat. Then fot the new balljoint.
I think i remember currently and probably more than you bargained for.
Good job, and good call. the sealed versions are so much easier and less prone to wear; espcially if greasing isn’t your cup of tea. eitherway, these will last much longer than the old rebuildable style. Hough that is one thing I like about Jaguars everything is rebuildable. even the rocker switches.
Good job!
Mark
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Kirbert
(Author of the Book, former owner of an '83 XJ-S H.E.)
13
I keep seeing these things referred to as “sealed”. I think this is a bit misleading. All of these ball joints are sealed, including the rebuildable ones that came in the pre-1987 Jags. The ones introduced for the XJ40 – and a recommended retrofit to the earlier cars, replacing the rebuildable items – don’t have grease fittings and can’t be disassembled. But the concern – among all of these – is whether or not the gaitors will hold up. The gaitors on the rebuildable ball joints will not hold up; they are among the worst examples of Jaguar garbage parts - sad, as the hard parts of those early ball joints were excellent. Hence the recommendation to upgrade to the non-rebuildable items. But not all the non-rebuildable items are as good as they could be. The Lemforders are recommended because they are all that; the gaitors have multiple folds, plenty to allow full range of motion without ripping. Some of the other aftermarket ball joints, sealed though they may be, do not have gaitors that are as well-designed and probably won’t last as long as Lemforders.
If I were to rank these things, I’d suggest the rebuildables are garbage, the aftermarket non-rebuildables are better but unknown just how good, and the Lemforders are the very best. Hence, I personally don’t recommend non-rebuildable or “sealed”; I recommend Lemforders and no other.
Planning a replacement for the upper and lower ball joints on the front of my '84 XJ6. What is the current preferred brand and what year XJ40 do I need to order for? Does the XJ40 principle apply to both upper and lower, or just lower?
Also, any recommendations for the front sway bar end links? My bushings are pretty crusty looking. The bar-to-chassis mounts have already been replaced.
From memory, the uppers have been the same all along, for Series I-II-III, XJ40, X300. You’d probably have to go thru some effort to find and buy the old-style lowers. I always use Lemforder
For the end link bushings I just use generics from the local auto parts store. Nothing special required, in my experience. They’re all urethane these days, it seems…which is fine.
. Good I did that though on the IRS, done now.
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