got back into her this week,
starts idles nice, changed the oil and oil filter again nice oil presser etc.
But now i have a new problem. I assume i have the DG gearbox from what I have read.
all of a sudden i have transmission oil comeing out of the bellhousing?
My assumption is the found seal is shot?
long shot any other ideas?
and what gearbox should I be looking for and what fettling is needed to fit it up?
If your car sat for a while, it probably is the torque convertor seal from your description, but you should be sure as you can its leaking from there, remove the inspection cover, its difficult to remove the trans in MKX, almost certainly requiring the engine and trans to come out as a unit
Its also difficult to fit another trans, as the tunnel is boxed in and reinforced at the front.
Borg Warner 8 and 12 from later MKX and S1 XJ will fit
BW65/66 from later XJ may fit, but I cannot be sure
very few 4 speed auto trans will fit, (worse if you are RHD ? )
it is also possible to do a manual GB conversion, but not inexpensive
I had the very same problem with the BW8 in my Mk10 on recommissioning. It was intermittent, but really gushed from the front shaft seal when leaking. First, be sure it’s not overfilled. Then, try adding a bottle of Trans-X after lowering the level the appropriate amount. Mine continued to leak intermittently to a lesser extent, then stopped leaking completely for about 50 miles. Don’t know if the DG250 will behave like mine. However, the head gasket blew, and the engine turned out to have had it’s previous rebuild by a total idiot, so I’m off the road until the machine shop gets an engine back to me (as I sort through my stuff looking for a decent block).
To get to the point, when the engine goes back in, I am coupling it to a GM700r4 through a John’s car adapter plate. Although there is a rumor that this has been done once, I haven’t seen anything proving it, but I believe that it will work. There has been some question of whether it can also work in RHD, but on mocking it up, I believe it can. While John told me I would have to cut the right floorboard (he has never installed his kit in a Mk10), I do not believe that to be the case. It has the huge advantages of low first band range, overdrive with lockup, compatibility with the common 3.54 rear end, and easy access to good quality rebuilding. So, you might want to stay in touch with me about this. As far as I am concerned, having had a DG250 in a mk2 which I converted to 4Synchro o/d, that old transmission is a piece of junk. I think it will be at least a couple of months before I know how the conversion works.
@Ron_Smith & others
I recommend this series, he tries but ultimately fails to insert a V12 and another trans (by a deadline)…lots of cutting and welding
Would be interested to know if this works ok.
i have been warned off putting any additive in my BW35 but mine leaks at the front, and I can’t see where from. It’s not too bad though, and I can live with it but it would be nice not to have to have the cardboard on the garage floor!!
Does anyone have any experience in this area?
i have been mulling your post all day, Totally agree the ratios are all win win.
4L60E, boxes are dime a doz in Australia, 2-300 dollars or 1600 for a recon
th700r4 not so much.
Now thinking though this, the th700r4 is a bit of a pain to dial in with its counterweights and the kickdown cable will be a pain to get spot on, thus the risk of burning out clutch packs is quite high.
the th700 4L60E, is just bolt in ( after you figger that out) but with the added cost of a controller say 700USD but endlessly tunable. or a simply full manual control. and I have seen this done a couple of times trigged by an H pattern shifter, controller for 200 USD.
Haha, yes I watched that some time ago. That guy had a lot of energy for a failed project.
Yes! Next time I will do a 4L60, but will need to confirm that the case configuration can be trimmed on the side the way that is required for my 700R4. John specifically recommends the early transmission for simplicity, but discussing the subject with my tranny expert, clearly I would choose the 4L60 and controller the next time IF the case can work. I think there are some differences in the early and later cases that makes the earlier cleaner, but I think it should work. You are right about having to get the cable properly adjusted. Seem like a controller is the way to go to me.
My trimmed case should fit with 1/2" to spare on each side judging from the adapter plate - I intend to do a little test fit tomorrow without the engine now that I have the rebuilt transmission back. I believe that the installation would be best done with engine and transmission together, but it might be possible to put the tranny in first then the engine (definitely no transmission change with engine in place).
Also, If you can avoid trimming the right floor, there should be clearance for the e-brake in a RHD car.
The real trick for the conversion is going to be the cross-member at the tailstock. The longer GM remains forward of the crossmember, but the standard GM slip joint will cause the forward u-joint to lie at the narrowest point of the tunnel and I’m sure it will hit. However, there is a longer slip joint which I believe will clear. If that fails, it will require opening the tunnel from above (my interior is now mostly gutted so not too big a deal) and enlarging the opening for the shaft, while structurally reinforcing this important member. The roof of the tunnel can be replaced with fasteners and left for access in the future as it’s of minor structural importance. I do believe the simpler method will work.
I think additives are a last resort, when you are faced with a rebuild unless you try. Maybe you are not there yet.
please explain slimed case?
He did get it to Africa so I wouldn’t see it as a failed project, in the end, all he owes us is the last video of the series?
He also bought another MkX V12 in Scotland some time.
Physically smaller, have one to measure if ever needed but once the engine+transmission is out of the car it is not so hard to change the seal… and why would you go for the weak(ish) 66 (the 65 is worse) when you could go for a BW 8/12, even better, a proper four speed, or keep the DG?
It can really only be the torque converter seal that is pushed into the pump housing when the converter has no loose drain bolt. It’s a lip seal (which I changed thanks to Tonys advice, it is straight forward when you have the right seal - I have a BW8). The pump gasket is very unlikely to leak.
For the very reasons I already stated, the GM is preferable to any of those: low first band, overdrive with torque converter lockup, and reliability. As for manual vs auto, that’s a matter of personal preference. Speaking for myself, I prefer an automatic in a big car, especially on hills in the city.
I don’t know what you are referring to - I mentioned trimming the “ears” on the sides of the case to make it narrrower.
I did some work today. Bottom line is that it is doable to put a 700R4/4L60 into a Mk10, but not simple or real easy. No big surprise about that. May not be for everyone.
The body will have to be cut in at least two places. In the tunnel, the longer GM fouls the roof where the tailstock is squared and the tunnel is rounded. That’s not too big a deal, and when all is said and done could be welded up or fixed with sheet metal screws.
The other cut is to the forward few inches of the right tunnel and floorboard for the starter. This will begin below the level of the emergency brake pressing (unused on my LHD) and would clear it, so I believe feasible for RHD cars. I have the extra job of welding back on the protuberance from the side of the aluminum adapter plate that I was told was not used on my application by the person who sold it to me. Oh contraire, it’s for the starter, duh. Believe it or not, I’ve never owned an old Chevy, although plenty of newer ones. Did not know that they mount from underneath.
I’ll need to flatten the gussets in the left tunnel wall by the adapter plate to give a scosh more room.
This is going to take more figuring out, so I’m going to make some cuts and put the transmission in again, attached to a spare engine block when that comes back, probably a month. Then I can get the linkage and driveline worked out before putting in a full engine. Plenty to work on in the meantime. Wish I had all this in plastic (they make a plastic GM for mock-up, but they are spendy.) No plastic XKs that I’ve heard of.
Photos fyi.
To the original poster: Dean,
The DG can be pulled from the Mark X without removing the engine. I personally have done it. In my garage on jack stands. The biggest difficulty, other than the trans weighs 1,000 pounds, is getting to the bolts on the bell housing. Multiple extensions and a swivel socket will get in there. If your trans is otherwise in good shape, I would replace the front seal and get her back on the road.
Micah.
Not an expert on the Mk 10 butI guessing it is not possible to remove the nuts (or are they bolts) on the four ears of the transmission and leave the bell housing in place, at least as a first step? American manual transmissions usually come out this way but Jaguar might not have made this possible.
John,
That works for a manual transmission.
An auto requires the converter to be inserted into the front pump. Pulling it apart this way would probably damage the converter. Also, it would be impossible on reassembly to correctly align the converter without damage to the converter and the seal.
With the bellhousing separated from the engine and the converter from the flex plate, the whole assembly will come out.
Micah
she will drop down when bellhousing and flex plate are undone??
Flex plate remains attached to the crank. You cannot undo it with the converter attached to it.
I personally did this 30+ years ago. It was not fun, but I was able to do it. This was in my '63 3.8 Mark X with the DG250 trans.
That trans was never good. It now resides in a box. A T-5 happily lives in its former home.
Micah
how far does the snout of the auto gearbox input shaft protrude beyond the bellhousing ?
I think that s the relevant question, as if it does not protrude at all it should be possible to just undo the bellhousing and flexplate bolts, and move the trans back enough to disengage to input shaft (less than 1" probably)
It may even be possible even on a BW8, I thought not, but could be wrong
There is very little space on a MKX to move a BW8 backwards.
There may be slightly more on a DG trans (but I doubt it)
Its a matter of millimetres
You can maybe get BW8 out I now believe by dismantling it backwards, but its still incredibly tight
(I did the rear main oil seal that way)
in any instance, you should probably also do the shifter shaft bushing, if at all possible, what an absolute mongrel of a job that was, and they leak on most older trans…you do need to take it half apart though
