Hooter/horn issues S2 DD6 (and handbrake discussion)

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That is the insulated ā€˜spearā€™, Anthony. Inside is a hollow brass tube that slides outside the brass rod inside the steering shaft - allowing the steering wheel to move up and down without lossing the connection. The button on to of the plastic hex connects to ground when the horn ring is pushedā€¦

As an aside; when pushing the spear into position; donā€™t use force - it will buckle the rod inside the shaft. The spear should slide in easilyā€¦:slight_smile:

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
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HOOTER IS SORTED THANK YOU ā€¦HERE S A LITTEL MORE OF MY DAY ON THE DD6ā€¦ So today ,finished replacing the fuse I needed ,Try getting a 50 amp fuse in a shop, then next on the list was the speedo which after taking it out stopped working ā€¦but then I thought Iā€™ve not really gone anywhere to noticeā€¦ Iā€™m sure it was O Kā€¦ Well take it apart, the meter, the speedo, cable the really award connection bolted to the side of the gearbox ,then I thought Iā€™m bonkers why do it from underneath there seems to be a plastic plate probably the centre consolā€¦so after removing the gear nob the gear selector thing the box under the lid, the window switchesā€¦ I then discovered no way can I get to the speedo connection from up here so under I go re fixed all the sodding bits Id removed and lit a fagā€¦ torch on my head band and with some fantastic fingers squashing and the use of grips and 10mm socket got the thing out checked looked brand new a sort of brown plastic turning on a metal screw ā€¦refit the unit connect cable and go to other end re check the right angel bit the cable screws into the back of the meter put exposed cogs and dial to cable round the block nuffin ā€¦so check the measurement s of the plastic end ,and the metal holeā€¦ figure it was close, but not snug so an addition to the plastic cable and a razor blade fitted it back to dial went round the block IT WORKS yippieā€¦ so bung everything back together and test again IT WORKSā€¦Next on the list is the hand brake been underneath and the pads washers split pins are new but can I see the handbrake operation NOā€¦A pal came over pulled on the bonnet release a few times before I said its here pull and twist off watch the panel light I fixed so under again pull twist pull twist see the cable moving and see the arms doing whatever the arm does pads are brand new Oh Iā€™ve said that so I reckon Ill turn the adjuster up and pull the connector together and see if it makes any difference to the hand brake operation if not Iā€™m stumped right now

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I assume ā€˜arms doingā€™ means they are moving, Anthonyā€¦?

ā€¦but what about the pads? That they are new means that at some stage some dismantling was done for replacement - and the replacement procedure includes repeated application of the hand brake/arms for the self adjustment mechanism to settle the pads. Also; the cable adjuster just affects the brake lever travel. Crudely the lever should travel at least some 2 to 3 ā€˜clicksā€™ before biting - to ensure enough cable slack to allow the pads to releaseā€¦

Two things about the xj handbrake; it is not famous for its braking effect. And it is a ā€˜parking brakeā€™ - heftily applied with the car moving is not ā€˜goodā€™. Which requires some care while testing. So apart for the arm actions observed; have you actually tested the braking effect?

You could of course put something between the pads and the rotor, to see if the pads are applied and released as they should (a variant of the ā€˜dollar billā€™ test) - if no reaction; there is indeed some problem. Like some pad replacement procedural error?

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
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A tip for the MOT that I missed when I put my S2 Daimler in with an iffy handbrakeā€¦

They normally put the car on rollers and test each side. To pass they need to be about equal, which can be difficult with the XJ push/pull cable operation. My handbrake worked fine overall but the two sides were too far out of whack and I had a lot of messing about and two re-tests before he passed it.

However, because that car, like yours, used a limited slip differential I could have requested the handbrake be road-tested, i.e, holding on a hill, not by a machine testing one wheel at a time, which is bad for the diff. If Iā€™d remembered that it would have passed first time.

Might be worth finding a test place that will road test the hand brake.

Thereā€™s a 40 year exemption for MOT testing in the UK which Iā€™d have thought youā€™d be eligible for but you do have to register for that. The modern test is so far out of step with how classics work that it really canā€™t be applied. Itā€™s not a reason to allow the car out in a dangerous condition but small variances, like a handbrake thatā€™s a bit more more effective on one side than another shouldnā€™t stop the car being used.

I have to say I quite liked the idea of somebody looking at the car once in a while with a new set of eyes to pick up possible issues. A very well respected restorer told me he used to finish a car after hundreds of hours of work, send it to MOT and just sometimes the MOT tester would pick up something really important that he had missed, which was a useful check system.

Once every couple of years I ask my garage to do an NOT test (like an MOT but erā€¦ NOT an MOT) just to cast an eye over it.

thank your guys for the advise and yes Ive been busy finishing jobs like speedo brake lights water temp and handbrake cable adjustā€¦Yes as Iā€™ve seen many replaced and new parts under the car, the new pads on the brakes and new spit pins washers etcā€¦ further back on the top of the main disc brakesā€¦I also feel that its had work done in the past, as for the handbrake removing the two panels in the boot is pointless I was considering cutting though the box section in the boot housing those silly covers, to the handbrake mechanism to see clearly what was going on, but again their are at least three layers of metal, and believe it or not wood, is also used as a covering, so thatā€™s thatā€¦ my shop

manual helps, but its not the same when you cant touch or adjust replace with out a major dropping of the rear

Just drop the rear end before you cut anything. Itā€™s a handful of bolts and a few minutes with the cable and hose and a few hours with the radius arm. Itā€™s so easy. I did it three times now and I wonā€™t mind doing it again. What is hard is removing the Ā£#%!* brake calipers, and such. Regreasing the handbrakes is just half a daysā€™ worth including everything.
You have new discs, no cast iron ring around them, and the pads look okay.

My handbrake never worked (no matter what cable adjustment) until I pulled the IRS greased the mechanism and installed new pads. Now it works plain and simple, no issues ever since.
Again donā€™t cut anything it doesnā€™t help anyone.

Yes I have filed a form 112 I think though the post office for MOT exception but like most bits of paper they only mean something to someone else after a "Look what Iā€™ve got " ā€œand I havenā€™t paid to have them.ā€. Like my intended heritage certificate, thereā€™s another Ā£50.00 for whatā€¦ I know what car I own I know what it isā€¦ So yes MOT exempt, road tax exempt, cheap insurance with a value approved. Only to rise as the car gets TLC applied, and that leaves the 10*/- to the gallonā€¦So when we can go anywhere Ill be thinking with all these exemptions ā€œwhatā€™s a bit of fuelā€¦ā€.just like my Caddy Eldorado and thatā€™s 8.3 litre so compared to that this jag is positively fugal

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by the way do you remember what you did to get access to this INDEPENDENT REAR SUSSENSION IRS

Yes. Itā€™s in the book too and in short, put a block of wood under the suspension unit and ideally a gearbox jack. I donā€™t know how well youā€™re equipped, letā€™s say not much better than me. Remove the 4 driveshaft bolts and the 8 bolts that hold the 4 mounts. Pry apart the exhaust; this is the worst part.
Disconnect one side of the radius arm. If the bigger end is not letting go, you have to remove the small end. You will see lock tabs and a flat on the bolt. That flat allows it to clear, but only after you have removed the spring (self-contained, does not come apart, does not expand any further) and knocked the long threaded part back.

Now slowly drop the IRS by a few inches. It weighs ~300lb. Clamp the brake hose and disconnect it. Disconnect the hand brake cable. Drop the IRS further and slide it out (to the side needs a few inches less and thatā€™s how I did it). I donā€™t have much space.

It took me a while to figure it out but while it sounds like a lot of work, it isnā€™t really in the end. It makes it so much easier if you can reach it from all angles and actually see something. If you really knew what you were doing you could bend up a few spanners and do it that way; the hand brake I might be able to do in situ by now but it would be a real struggle.
And from my own experience itā€™s a good idea to inspect the previous work for missing bolts and such :roll_eyes:

Anything is better than guessing where to cut holes, seal them in some way and still not getting it right. Itā€™s nicely laid out if you have it out of the carā€¦

Remember: If you have the handbrake calipers apart, itā€™s recommended you not reassemble with Jaguar handbrake pads! They are unreliable, sometimes the lining comes right off ā€“ and you donā€™t wanna have to go back in there. Rather, buy some disc brake pads for some tiny Japanese car and cut them down to fit. Theyā€™ll last forever.

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Well thank you for that, great helpā€¦Manual is a bit formal for me sometimes to get on withā€¦ This little chat really helped me along the wayā€¦ Well doneā€¦ and that book I do have two Iā€™m thinking if we all used a book rather than a chatting about an issue, would there be a need for a forumā€¦ whatā€™s left to talk about, if we reply to a forum question with ā€œIts in a bookā€ lol ā€¦ Again Thank youā€¦ Anthony

NOW THATS A GREAT BIT OF INFO, MANUAL WONT TELL YOU THAT opps caps Thank you Anthony

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True enough, Anthony, but exemptions apart - it is still worth while having a working handbrakeā€¦:slight_smile:

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
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Both my Ferodo and County pads were very well made. Not only depending on the adhesive but also drilled backing plates the liners grab on to. The 1969 Jag parts separated in my hands, but 1969 is the clue/ glue, sorry, here. They worked in the day.

I did read up on how to ā€œreinforceā€ or modify the pads but itā€™s simply not needed.

The originals last forever if used as designed. The hand-brake is applied and released when the vehicle is stopped, hence only static clamping, not routine rubbing friction leading to wear. If you try playing Dukes of Hazzard with an DD6 hand-brake pads will be the least of your problems.

Until the glue gives. In any case theyā€™re a parking brake, yes. And I donā€™t trust it a bit. But the available pads are alright.

Not the ones I gotā€¦ they lasted three months.

So I made my own from brake pads taken from a tiny Japanese car.
You can see the difference in the thickness of both of the plate and the pad.
Almost ten years later and I still have a working parking brake.
And when I say working I mean that the car will not move even when parked downhill, engine on and transmission on D.

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