Lets guess its value


(David Ahlers) #102

David,
I was being a bit facetious with my $1500 Midget comment (I remember test driving a well used one). Every car deserves it’s time in the sun. But when a Midget sells over $10k, I’d say that’s pretty sunny out!

I find that almost every vehicle that is bid on BAT goes for more than I’d be comfortable paying. $62k for the Jag with significant work left and a bit of a crap shoot with respect to what challenges are ahead, I’d say that was all the money (plus $20K?). After so many years in boxes, what parts are missing? What assemblies need to be redone etc.etc.

What did you calculate in time and money to complete the project?


(David Langley) #103

I tend to agree, but that’s the scrooge in me. I don’t have to have another E-Type. If I can get a nice one at a good price (or a Mark 2, or a…) I’m interested, but if the price gets close to retail I’m out. Of course, when I’m selling on BaT I think that bidders are low balling my car…:grinning:

When pressed, the seller’s restorer estimated that there were 30 man days of work left to finish it up. I view that figure with suspicion, given the motivation of the source. I’d be doing it myself, and expected to take at least twice that. My time is free, but I wasn’t about to sell myself cheap to get the car. Other bidders who don’t have the time, interest, or expertise would be counting on $100/hr. As for parts, I estimated $5K should cover it. Then you have to factor in the recently rebuilt engine and transmission. Rebuilt - great! What exactly was done to them, other than a nice coat of paint - don’t know? Never been run - Oh… When you take all the risk, there has to be a reward. I stopped bidding at $40K. If the bidding had started to stall in the 40’s I’d have kept going up to $50K. If I’d got carried away, maybe a little more, but clearly the seller had other ideas. I think the seller may live to regret passing on $62K.

-David


(Erica Moss) #104

That’s the rub. When enough stock analysts give sell ratings to a company it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. It’s helping to kill the market. If someone reputable comes out and says they’re an undervalued sleeper then they’ll rise again.


(LLoyd (just a rithmetician)) #105

Yes!.. " I would never sell if for what I would never pay for it"

LLoyd 2018

“What terrifies religious extremists like the Taliban are not American tanks or bombs or bullets, it’s a girl with a book.”
Malala Yousafzai


(Eric) #106

I’ve said this before…Hagerty is in the business of finding more cars to insure. So they create lists of new up and coming “collector” cars and at the same time tell those already insured that their former top of the list cars are holding their own (so you keep forking over high premiums). It’s a scam and they’re not doing enthusiasts any favors.


(Erica Moss) #107

But they’ve been saying for a year that e-types and muscle cars are actually losing ground. If they were to be believed on this, I’d lower my agreed value at least 25% and cut my premium. I probably won’t as I don’t believe I could replace it for that price. Ultimately they’re basing their evaluations on transaction prices, so it’s pretty agnostic. The reality is that the younger crowd simply doesn’t want or can’t afford an e-type. You can leave an S2000 on the street outside your apartment. You can’t do that with an e-type.


(Steve) #108

…unless the Lotus needs a little Love…


(Paul Wigton) #109

I think if they sell over $1000, that’s insane.

Miserable little PsOS…:wink:


(David Langley) #110

If you look at their graphs, with a few exceptions (mostly Series 3 which do show declines) Hagerty are saying values are flat, not declining. They rate them as “losing ground”, because other marks are increasing in value, not just staying flat. Interestingly enough, in contrast Hagerty shows that 2+2s (S1 & S2) both had an upward spike earlier in the year.


(Pete55Tbird) #111

The value of a car

I believe that all cars have both an intrinsic value and a market value ( the price you sell it for )

To me the cars I now own or have owned or someday want to own have to appeal to me and that is the intrinsic value. What I could sell it for is almost meaningless

As an example, right now I have my Tbird, a Mk2, a Jag 420, a 66 Mustang fastback GT and two Crosley roadsters,

Of these cars the Mustang has become the car that is gaining in popularity at the fastest rate and is getting an almost cult following. And

demographics are on its side.

The Crosleys are another story. They get no respect even though they were way ahead of there time. 4 wheel disk brakes in 1949.

An overhead cam engine with an aluminum 5 bearing crankshaft and an iron block. A 44 cubic inch, 750 CC engine producing 26.5 HP @ 5400 RPM

that weighed 150 lbs. Cheap, poorly made and Small when America wanted BIG. My 49 Hotshot was painted Chartreus with red vinal seats. Pure charm. AND 4 wheel DISK BRAKES in 1949

The Mk2 I bought because I loved the body and this one is lumped. Ford 302 and an AOD 4speed A/T. I should have known better than to buy a Jag

as my brother had owned a 51 120M and a new 54 140 DHC, SE.

Some context on my Mustang. After I sold the 66 Shelby GT350 I bought it as when working on the Shelby it became apparent it was really just

a Ford 66 Mustang GT hipo with a lot of available add-ons and can be duplicated at reasonable cost.

I have no opinion as to the " VALUE " of the car you are trying to price. I think that is merely retail. Pete


(69 FHC ) #112

The only rule that matters in the collector car market, or any other market for that matter: The transactional monetary value of something is solely dictated by what someone will pay for it.


(Erica Moss) #113

I’d say it’s the price at which a transaction occurs and that takes two parties. If someone is only willing to pay 50K for my car, it simply won’t be sold because it’s worth more to me. Maybe in a roundabout way that makes me a buyer of my own car though.


(phillip keeter) #114

Prophetic,
If you, as the seller, place a “personal” value on your car when it’s time to sell you may as well not waste the time to place the ad. The buyer could not care less about what this car means to you.
Think of this in the same way you would if selling a certain stock on the exchange. You may have developed a deep relationship with this stock during the time you have owned it but that relationship has absolutely no added value to the stock. Same thing with your car.
Your first decision is, “do I really want to sell this car?”.
Phillip


(Erica Moss) #115

You’re leaving out the most important clause…“do I really want to sell this car (at this price)?”

There’s an old saying that everything’s for sale if you offer the right price. There has to be a mutual meeting of the minds before a value point is found. One can’t say a perfect example of a given car is 50K just because no one wants to pay more, unless you can also find a person that holds one who is willing to sell it at that same price. If no one will, then by definition it’s worth more than the buyers are willing to pay.

It doesn’t have to do with “personal” value. It’s a matter of what price I value it at period. In other words, that’s what I’d pay to buy it if I didn’t already own it.


(Pete55Tbird) #116

Crosley Hotshot 1949


Same color paint although this shows a Super Sport ( deluxe version) that has doors that the HotShot lacks and the more subdued upholstery color. 4Wheel DISK BRAKES 1949.
The inspiration for the Healey Sprite


(Eric) #117

I happen to own one, but not in a million years would I consider buying one. I purchased this thing 35 years ago on a whim. I always liked the look of the FHC and found one reasonably close to being road worthy at a stupid low price. One thing led to another and the damned thing ended up scattered around the premises in a million pieces. When I finally found time to put it back together, the craze was just beginning. That influenced my thinking regarding the quality of the “restoration”. I was actually aiming for the 50th anniversary as the completion date, but missed the peak because of unexpected life events in the interim. It should still bring more than the dollar amount I put in it, but the time I slaved over the stupid thing is irretrievable. Stupid me, actually. So there it sits. I don’t like car clubs or car shows…hate ingress and egress…like driving it once installed behind the wheel…can’t bring myself to consider it a daily driver. “Do I really want to sell this car?” Depends on the selling price…which has nothing to do with what I’d pay if I didn’t already own it. A nicely lumped XJ coupe is more to my liking.


(Paul Wigton) #118

The Hotshot was the only car with which I could compete, in vintage races, with my '60 DKW Junior! It could outpull me–a bit–on the straights, but the Deek handled WAY better!

Scotty Knox, local old SAAB racer and I had a BALL racing together!


(Bill Bilotti 1966 S1 OTS (in boxes)) #119

And you got to read several pages of a current novel as you went down the straightaway.


(Paul Wigton) #120

…an entire novel!!

At Steamboat '90, I was bragging that the Deek was the slowest car there…and it was proven, when the Morgan trike passed me going uphill!!!


(Erica Moss) #121

I count the sunk money and time as “payment” though. We’ve already paid a lot for it. I’m pretty dispassionate about things I’ve invested time and money in and look at the big picture. If I buy something that is fully depreciated for 1k and maintain it for 20 years, and decide to sell it, then 1K goes into the inflation calculator to arrive at my minimum price to sell. If I’ve had to throw time and money into it, then that gets added as well. If I can’t get that, then unless I have need of money it doesn’t get sold. It doesn’t matter if it’s a guitar, a car or a house.

I don’t like shows either, and my car would get slaughtered at one, if only because if all the non original bolts. I do like driving it though and take it out a couple times a week at least. What I don’t like is working on it and I’m dreading the fact that the engine has to come out again for a new rear main.

I would happily sell it but only at a price that I feel makes 18 years of slaving worth it. Had it been together and running with the hardtop finished at the high 6 years ago I likely would have let it go.