Hello all Jaguar lovers!
I just got off the phone with a-air, the ac parts supplier.
They recommend a special (better) oil to run with r134a.
Its a special (end capped) pag oil.
They also said it would be a good idea to replace the o rings for long term
reliability, using new nitril O rings, or even better,
the green (nbhr?) O rings.
Anyone know of a place to get the green O rings?
We talked about changing the expansion valve to one designed for r134a.
They said, there is/may be other restrictions in the system
to help deal with the change in input between idle and
at speed, and changing the expansion valve without changing
the other restrictions might cause problems.
I also talked about their rebuild of parts.
It sounds like they do a good job, as they said how hard
it is to get good bearings these days.
Clark
'88 XJ40----- Original Message -----
From: “Brett Gazdzinski” brett.gazdzinski@wcom.com
To: <>; <>
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 1:24 PM
Subject: [modern] AC r134a retrofit.
Hello all Jaguar lovers!
I just got off the phone with a-air, the ac parts supplier.
They recommend a special (better) oil to run with r134a.
Its a special (end capped) pag oil.
They also said it would be a good idea to replace the o rings for long
term
reliability, using new nitril O rings, or even better,
the green (nbhr?) O rings.
Anyone know of a place to get the green O rings?
We talked about changing the expansion valve to one designed for r134a.
They said, there is/may be other restrictions in the system
to help deal with the change in input between idle and
at speed, and changing the expansion valve without changing
the other restrictions might cause problems.
I also talked about their rebuild of parts.
It sounds like they do a good job, as they said how hard
it is to get good bearings these days.
----- Original Message -----
From: “Brett Gazdzinski” <@Brett_Gazdzinski1>
To: <>; <>
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 1:24 PM
Subject: [modern] AC r134a retrofit.
Hello all Jaguar lovers!
I just got off the phone with a-air, the ac parts supplier.
They recommend a special (better) oil to run with r134a.
Its a special (end capped) pag oil.
They also said it would be a good idea to replace the o
rings for long
term
reliability, using new nitril O rings, or even better,
the green (nbhr?) O rings.
Anyone know of a place to get the green O rings?
We talked about changing the expansion valve to one
designed for r134a.
They said, there is/may be other restrictions in the system
to help deal with the change in input between idle and
at speed, and changing the expansion valve without changing
the other restrictions might cause problems.
I also talked about their rebuild of parts.
It sounds like they do a good job, as they said how hard
it is to get good bearings these days.
Let me know how that works if you use it, although any comparison to Slick
50 sends shivers.
When I did my Nissan, I just replaced the dryer, drained the compressor and
evacuated the system. When we recharged, we did have a couple of O-rings let
go but the system has blown cold for over a year now. I have yet to have a
problem with the R-134A w/ester oil combination.
I can’t imagine that with a new re-built compressor you would have any
problem at all with ester oil. Why risk something that really isn’t as
proven as all the major auto manufacturers using it for years now with no
problems?
I just got in a new Dryer for the XJ last week and I am planning to do the
same. There is still R-12 in the system so I want to re-capture it, then put
in the R134A. My mechanic buddies said they will do the whole thing
(capture/evacuation and re-charge) including Freon and oil for $50. They
have the proper equipment, and experience so I am going to let them have at
it. If I do it before I hear you did it, I will let you know how it went.
Clark,
Sanden does not recommend ester oil.
They recommend pag oil, and so does a-air.
A-air has a ‘special’ pag oil that is better than
most other pag oils (they say) in that it does not react
with mineral, and provides better lubrication.
Brett
1990 XJ6>
Brett
Let me know how that works if you use it, although any
comparison to Slick
50 sends shivers.
When I did my Nissan, I just replaced the dryer, drained the
compressor and
evacuated the system. When we recharged, we did have a couple
of O-rings let
go but the system has blown cold for over a year now. I have
yet to have a
problem with the R-134A w/ester oil combination.
I can’t imagine that with a new re-built compressor you would have any
problem at all with ester oil. Why risk something that
really isn’t as
proven as all the major auto manufacturers using it for years
now with no
problems?
I just got in a new Dryer for the XJ last week and I am
planning to do the
same. There is still R-12 in the system so I want to
re-capture it, then put
in the R134A. My mechanic buddies said they will do the whole thing
(capture/evacuation and re-charge) including Freon and oil
for $50. They
have the proper equipment, and experience so I am going to
let them have at
it. If I do it before I hear you did it, I will let you know
how it went.
I have been doing a bit of research regarding ester vs. pag. This truly
appears to be six of one/ 1/2 dozen of another
The general consensus I have read to date is that both oils are equally
compatible with pag being more compatible with the existing o-rings and
ester being more compatible with the existing mineral oil. My indication is
to lean toward the ester oil since it forms a seal with the existing mineral
oil at the junctures where o-rings are present. Pag oil seems to be the
oil of choice for new systems, ester seems to be the oil of choice for
retrofits.
One thing I HAVE determined is that I am nor going to use any of these other
type refrigerants other than 134A. While I do realize this is a competitive
market and many will say anything to get their product used I do know this.
R134A is being used almost exclusively in the US by Auto manufacturers.
Ester oil or pag is being used successfully with R134a retrofits. There is
no way I would deviate from those sets of standards.
Clark,
Sanden does not recommend ester oil.
They recommend pag oil, and so does a-air.
A-air has a ‘special’ pag oil that is better than
most other pag oils (they say) in that it does not react
with mineral, and provides better lubrication.
Clark,
Well, the sanden web page you pointed out does not
recommend ester oil, but pag oil.
Compressor wear seems to be the reason they recommend pag oil.
a-air web page has test info on various oils, although
its hardly an independent test…
It seems some oils can react with other oils over time.
Maybe sanden makes compressors designed for r134a and ester oil,
but they don’t recommend ester oil in r12 compressors.
Brett
1990 XJ6>
Brett
Let me know how that works if you use it, although any
comparison to Slick
50 sends shivers.
When I did my Nissan, I just replaced the dryer, drained the
compressor and
evacuated the system. When we recharged, we did have a couple
of O-rings let
go but the system has blown cold for over a year now. I have
yet to have a
problem with the R-134A w/ester oil combination.
I can’t imagine that with a new re-built compressor you would have any
problem at all with ester oil. Why risk something that
really isn’t as
proven as all the major auto manufacturers using it for years
now with no
problems?
I just got in a new Dryer for the XJ last week and I am
planning to do the
same. There is still R-12 in the system so I want to
re-capture it, then put
in the R134A. My mechanic buddies said they will do the whole thing
(capture/evacuation and re-charge) including Freon and oil
for $50. They
have the proper equipment, and experience so I am going to
let them have at
it. If I do it before I hear you did it, I will let you know
how it went.
I looked at all the links below, and it SOUNDS like
pag oil might be better as far as wear goes, while ester
is better with mineral oil.
I wonder how much of the mineral oil you have to get out
in order to be ok with pag oil.
Since I am replacing the compressor and filter drier, there
would not be much mineral oil left in the system.
I plan on blowing out the evap and condenser, and replacing
the O rings with the green type if I can get them.
( I think Coventry West has them)
I am almost tempted to put r12 back in…
I bet if I do put r12 back in, the rebuilt compressor will leak…
Brett
1990 XJ6> Brett,
I have been doing a bit of research regarding ester vs. pag.
This truly
appears to be six of one/ 1/2 dozen of another
The general consensus I have read to date is that both oils
are equally
compatible with pag being more compatible with the existing
o-rings and
ester being more compatible with the existing mineral oil. My
indication is
to lean toward the ester oil since it forms a seal with the
existing mineral
oil at the junctures where o-rings are present. Pag oil
seems to be the
oil of choice for new systems, ester seems to be the oil of choice for
retrofits.
One thing I HAVE determined is that I am nor going to use any
of these other
type refrigerants other than 134A. While I do realize this is
a competitive
market and many will say anything to get their product used I
do know this.
R134A is being used almost exclusively in the US by Auto
manufacturers.
Ester oil or pag is being used successfully with R134a
retrofits. There is
no way I would deviate from those sets of standards.
Clark,
Sanden does not recommend ester oil.
They recommend pag oil, and so does a-air.
A-air has a ‘special’ pag oil that is better than
most other pag oils (they say) in that it does not react
with mineral, and provides better lubrication.
I looked at all the links below, and it SOUNDS like
pag oil might be better as far as wear goes, while ester
is better with mineral oil.
I wonder how much of the mineral oil you have to get out
in order to be ok with pag oil.
Since I am replacing the compressor and filter drier, there
would not be much mineral oil left in the system.
I plan on blowing out the evap and condenser, and replacing
the O rings with the green type if I can get them.
( I think Coventry West has them)
I am almost tempted to put r12 back in…
I bet if I do put r12 back in, the rebuilt compressor will leak…
I just joined the discussion list so I don’t know the history for the retrofit.
If your old compressor died, you need to flush both the evaporator and
condensor with a A/C cleaning solvent, as some bits and pieces may have
gotten from your old disintegrating compressor.
Since you are replacing the compressor, I would also get the hoses reworked
with new rubber, as they are probably 10 yr old and on the way to being
permeable. Additionally, you should replace the low pressure switch, as it
doesn’t come with the new compressor. I didn’t and it started leaking a 1.5
year later. You can use the $20 aftermarket one rather than the $100
jaguar one.
I used PAG oil that was compatible with both R12 and R134, and meets the
requirements to validate the warrantee on the replacement compressor. I
don’t remember the ester oil being mentioned as an option and still be
under warrantee.