I already that All XJ40 & X300 XJ12 have a 4 speed GM auto… but what
type??? Is there any diference between them??? Are they different from
regular XJ40 & X300??? I read on the archives that all XJR have different
transmissions?? I assumed that all V12 sedans get stronger tranny because of
stronger engine. Someone even said that XJR have a 4 speed GM tranny that can
handle 500ft-lbs of tourque!! I am really confused.
My Tranny is Ok… I am just curious!!!
Peter 1994 xj12
Your car probably has a GM4L80E transmission which is an updated version of
the venerable GM400 trans. It is the same transmission that is in the Chevy
Suburban. Which means yes it can handle quite a bit of low end torque. I do
not know what the exact modifications are to this trans to fit the V12 or
vice versa but it is indeed different than 6 cylinder models which can have
a ZF trans.
I had plenty of problems with my trans including slight slipping in 1st and
a leak that simply wont go away and two shops have failed to diagnose and
fix. If it were 100% I would probably be happy, shift points are acceptable
and it should be easy to service with the GM parts.
DA
1994 XJ12----- Original Message -----
From: Pete112883@aol.com
To: modern@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:13 PM
Subject: [modern] What Transimission on XJ12???
I already that All XJ40 & X300 XJ12 have a 4 speed GM auto… but what
type??? Is there any diference between them??? Are they different from
regular XJ40 & X300??? I read on the archives that all XJR have different
transmissions?? I assumed that all V12 sedans get stronger tranny because
of
stronger engine. Someone even said that XJR have a 4 speed GM tranny that
can
handle 500ft-lbs of tourque!! I am really confused.My Tranny is Ok… I am just curious!!!
Peter 1994 xj12
Hi there,
The X300 XJR and XJ12 have the same transmission but different final
gear ratios. It is, to my knowledge, a GM 4L80-E transmission capable
of withstanding up to 440lb of torque from the engine (officially).
Suffice to say, the Bentley Arnage T which has a horsepower rating of
456 and ft-lb rating of 645, uses a 4L80-E transmission as well… So
does the Hummer!! As I understand, it was basically designed for trucks
and found its way into the more powerful Jaguars due to its torque
capacity. In addition, the transmission software is programmed by
Jaguar (or whatever company) so shifts are made as smoothly as possible.
The newer XJR (X308) uses a Mercedes Benz transmission.
The XJ40 XJ12 had the 4L80E transmission starting 93. Before, it was
the 3L80 (AKA TH400) transmission running in the 12 cylinder Jags…
Your car should have the newer 4L80E GM transmission.
Abdullah
95 XJR-----Original Message-----
From: owner-modern@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-modern@jag-lovers.org]
On Behalf Of Pete112883@aol.com
Sent: March 29, 2002 12:13 AM
To: modern@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [modern] What Transimission on XJ12???
I already that All XJ40 & X300 XJ12 have a 4 speed GM auto… but what
type??? Is there any diference between them??? Are they different from
regular XJ40 & X300??? I read on the archives that all XJR have
different
transmissions?? I assumed that all V12 sedans get stronger tranny
because of
stronger engine. Someone even said that XJR have a 4 speed GM tranny
that can
handle 500ft-lbs of tourque!! I am really confused.
My Tranny is Ok… I am just curious!!!
Peter 1994 xj12
At 12:13 AM 3/29/2002, you wrote:
I already that All XJ40 & X300 XJ12 have a 4 speed GM auto… but what
type???
4L80E
Is there any diference between them???
Well, I’m not sure what you mean but it does come in various configurations
as it’s a GM trans.
Are they different from
regular XJ40 & X300???
Absolutely! Those are a ZF trans…
I read on the archives that all XJR have different
transmissions??
No clue…
I assumed that all V12 sedans get stronger tranny because of
stronger engine.
Yep! Always did…except the earliest V-12 cars all had the BW 12 that
they also used in the XJ-6.
That trans was definitely over-specced for the six cylinder car, though…
Someone even said that XJR have a 4 speed GM tranny that can
handle 500ft-lbs of tourque!!
That sounds an awful lot like the 4L80E trans…it’s basically a Turbo
400 with an overdrive gear.
Cheers,
Jeb
4L80 is a very sophisticated design using a two stage torque converter for
increased efficiency - is very tuff- if it has been equipped with the
TRANSGO shift correction kit - apparently they had a rlrctronics
failure/pressure problem which blows the planetary gears literally out of
the side of the case - Ive nevber heard of this on the Jag - but it was
common with the GM trucks & Motorhomes …That is why there is a scarcity of
used 4L80 transmission cores in the world …
BIGGY
Abdullah wrote:
The newer XJR (X308) uses a Mercedes Benz transmission.
That is the same transmission that, as I’ve been told, doesn’t last long
behind naturally aspirated MB 6-cylinders!
Phil_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
I just got my 94 XJ12 back from the body shop… Great job.
Now I remember some annoying properties with the tranny. First is a
whine in low gear that is only noticeable in sport mode. The second is
sloooww shifts. The VCM shows the tranny display when check out only.
It has new filter & fluid. I would like to upgrade the shifts to be much
firmer. Does anyone have any experience with these trannies??
Roger
On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 02:58:15 -0500 “Abdullah Suleiman”
asulei@po-box.mcgill.ca writes:
Hi there,
The X300 XJR and XJ12 have the same transmission but different
final
gear ratios. It is, to my knowledge, a GM 4L80-E transmission
capable
of withstanding up to 440lb of torque from the engine (officially).
Suffice to say, the Bentley Arnage T which has a horsepower rating
of
456 and ft-lb rating of 645, uses a 4L80-E transmission as well…
So
does the Hummer!! As I understand, it was basically designed for
trucks
and found its way into the more powerful Jaguars due to its torque
capacity. In addition, the transmission software is programmed by
Jaguar (or whatever company) so shifts are made as smoothly as
possible.
The newer XJR (X308) uses a Mercedes Benz transmission.The XJ40 XJ12 had the 4L80E transmission starting 93. Before, it
was
the 3L80 (AKA TH400) transmission running in the 12 cylinder
Jags…
Your car should have the newer 4L80E GM transmission.Abdullah
95 XJR-----Original Message-----
From: owner-modern@jag-lovers.org
[mailto:owner-modern@jag-lovers.org]
On Behalf Of Pete112883@aol.com
Sent: March 29, 2002 12:13 AM
To: modern@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [modern] What Transimission on XJ12???I already that All XJ40 & X300 XJ12 have a 4 speed GM auto… but
what
type??? Is there any diference between them??? Are they different
from
regular XJ40 & X300??? I read on the archives that all XJR have
different
transmissions?? I assumed that all V12 sedans get stronger tranny
because of
stronger engine. Someone even said that XJR have a 4 speed GM
tranny
that can
handle 500ft-lbs of tourque!! I am really confused.My Tranny is Ok… I am just curious!!!
Peter 1994 xj12
With Regards,
Roger
@Roger_Iris
The low-gear whine is typical (and normal) planetary gear noise. This
characteristic is found in all Th400 transmissions right back to '64 and
carried on into it’s overdrive cousin, the 4L80E, which is the trans you
have.
I’d wager there are some “shift kits” or the like out there for this trans
to firm up the shifting.
Doug Dwyer
Longview, Washington USA----- Original Message -----
From: “Roger Surette” jaguarnut@juno.com
I just got my 94 XJ12 back from the body shop… Great job.
Now I remember some annoying properties with the tranny. First is a
whine in low gear that is only noticeable in sport mode. The second is
sloooww shifts. The VCM shows the tranny display when check out only.
It has new filter & fluid. I would like to upgrade the shifts to be much
firmer. Does anyone have any experience with these trannies??
I seem to remember that the first V12s had the BW model 12. The first XJ6s
had the BW model 8, which was long in the tooth even then.
Mike Craig
94 XJ40 3.2S, crappy ZF non-electronic box, and remembering the V12 + BW 12
with affection.
I assumed that all V12 sedans get stronger tranny because of stronger
engine.Yep! Always did…except the earliest V-12 cars all had the BW 12 that
they also used in the XJ-6.
whine in low gear that is only noticeable in sport mode. << This is
because sport mode holds the trans in low longer to allow the engine to
build revs …
planetary gear whine in automatics is very typical - some have more than
others - this is because of massed produced clearances, also if the trans
has been rebuilt, the planetarys usually are reused if the sun gear thrust
washer clearances are OK, making the noise continue into the next rebuild.
Then of course there is gear wear - which causes more noise - but does not
affect the integrity of the assembly ( planetarys are very tuff ) - its
kinda like tinnitis & ringing in your ears - we all have it, but it either
drives some crazy, others dont hear it, some hear it but ignore it, others
were just fine until you brought it to their attention - after which they
have learned to obsess about it. Gear whine ( and rear end noise, and the
thunka-thunka from the fuel injection etc… ) is a problem in expensive
luxury cars that are characteristically quiet - IE you can hear it )because
it is not masked by road or wind noise. I recall a person who obsessed about
planetary gear noise in a used Cadillac Eldorado - the stupid salesman
brought it to the attention of the test drive customer, where a deal was
made that he would buy the car if the dealer would fix the gear noise. Well
we took the damn trans out & put first a used gear set same problem - then a
new gear set, which made it a little quiet - but basically imperceptable to
the customer.
As far as shift correction kits go - some are good - others are better, some
are not so good, the one for the 4L80E is basically a mechanical fuse to
prevent an electronics failure from blowing (literally ) up the trans. You
cannot change the shift timing or firming up etc. - the electronics have
full control over the shift points & the pressure modulation .
Shift kits typically incorporate all the industry knowledge on a particular
unit - into the little instruction sheet - IE part numbers, new seal numbers
etc. They also usually fix problems that are characteristic to a particular
model of trans. For instance - the shift selector valve for the Chrysler
904 - 999 trans is incorrect in that it allows the torque converter to drain
back to the pan when parked - causing a “dry” converter at start up …-
TRANSGO has the correct vaslve in their shift kit. Some transmissions
absolutely will not live without a shift correction kit - and some
transmission shops will not warranty their rebuilds without your agreement
to the installation of one of these kits - that is how bad some of these
transmissions can be…
By the way - electronic transmissions work BETTER with synthetics trans
fluids BECAUSE of the shift solenoids - the stuff lubricates better… That
is why the new spec for DEXIII & MERCON V…
BIGGY----- Original Message -----
From: “Doug Dwyer” dougdwyer@earthlink.net
To: “Modern List” modern@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: [modern] What Transimission on XJ12???
The low-gear whine is typical (and normal) planetary gear noise. This
characteristic is found in all Th400 transmissions right back to '64 and
carried on into it’s overdrive cousin, the 4L80E, which is the trans you
have.I’d wager there are some “shift kits” or the like out there for this trans
to firm up the shifting.Doug Dwyer
Longview, Washington USA----- Original Message -----
From: “Roger Surette” jaguarnut@juno.comI just got my 94 XJ12 back from the body shop… Great job.
Now I remember some annoying properties with the tranny. First is a
whine in low gear that is only noticeable in sport mode. The second is
sloooww shifts. The VCM shows the tranny display when check out only.
It has new filter & fluid. I would like to upgrade the shifts to be
much
firmer. Does anyone have any experience with these trannies??
XJ40’s through 89 had a non electronic ZF 4hp22 transmission. This may have
been carried on to a later date with the 3.2.
Jim Moore(88 XJ40)
Mike
I suppose there is a non electronic ZF 4 speed but my Owner Manual says I have
a ZF4 HP 24 that I know has a computer control and the sport button so I must
have a different transmission that your 3.2S
My ZF has 188000 and shifts a smoothly as any Jag I have ever been in
regardless of miles. It is certainly better than the BW T6 I had in my 82
Series III. I never owned a 12 My parts book shows two transmissions P.N.
EBC2257 to vin 538477 and EAC6923 on the XJ 40 with EBC2378 for the 4.0 from 89
1/2 on My New Zealand Published Owners Edition of the Wrokshop Manual lists a
3.2 XJ40 with a potential of three final drive ratios (none of which I have in
my US Version which is 3.58:1 The NZ book lists a 2.88:1, a 3.54:1 and a
4.00:1 with a TCC (switch that changed shift points). Says it is a ZF but
this is a NZ Jaguar Book so I don’t know what kind. PS have never seen
anything in the US other than a 4.0, 6 lor 5.3 liter 12 and I was amazed to
learn how many variations Jag produced on the Xj40.
Jay 90 XJ6 4.0 VDP 188000
Jay
Mike Craig wrote:> I seem to remember that the first V12s had the BW model 12. The first XJ6s
had the BW model 8, which was long in the tooth even then.
Mike Craig
94 XJ40 3.2S, crappy ZF non-electronic box, and remembering the V12 + BW 12
with affection.I assumed that all V12 sedans get stronger tranny because of stronger
engine.Yep! Always did…except the earliest V-12 cars all had the BW 12 that
they also used in the XJ-6.
The ZFHP24 is superior to the HP22 & as good as the 4L80 …, the ZF has full
roller-needle bearing throughout - even the tail shafts - dont ever tow a
Jag without the driveshaft removed - the rollers will weld themselves
together & ou’ll have to junk the trans - tail shaft & yoke is close to
$1000. - the Germans are really proud of it …
The non-electonic ZF22 is NOT crap, just has some characteristics that
manifest themselves WHENTHEY GET ABOUT 120K ON THEM - by then your domestic
box would be shot !
The ZF3 IS A VERY TOUGH & SIMPLE LITTLE AUTOMATIC TRANS …
BIGGY
http://www.sonnax.com - industrail grade shift kit goodies for the 4L80E …
( another more modern manufacturer alternative to TRANSGO … )----- Original Message -----
From: “R Mahoney” <@R_Mahoney>
To: “Doug Dwyer” dougdwyer@earthlink.net; “Modern List”
modern@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: [modern] What Transimission on XJ12???
whine in low gear that is only noticeable in sport mode. << This is
because sport mode holds the trans in low longer to allow the engine to
build revs …planetary gear whine in automatics is very typical - some have more than
others - this is because of massed produced clearances, also if the trans
has been rebuilt, the planetarys usually are reused if the sun gear thrust
washer clearances are OK, making the noise continue into the next rebuild.
Then of course there is gear wear - which causes more noise - but does not
affect the integrity of the assembly ( planetarys are very tuff ) - its
kinda like tinnitis & ringing in your ears - we all have it, but it either
drives some crazy, others dont hear it, some hear it but ignore it, others
were just fine until you brought it to their attention - after which they
have learned to obsess about it. Gear whine ( and rear end noise, and the
thunka-thunka from the fuel injection etc… ) is a problem in expensive
luxury cars that are characteristically quiet - IE you can hear
it )because
it is not masked by road or wind noise. I recall a person who obsessed
about
planetary gear noise in a used Cadillac Eldorado - the stupid salesman
brought it to the attention of the test drive customer, where a deal was
made that he would buy the car if the dealer would fix the gear noise.
Well
we took the damn trans out & put first a used gear set same problem - then
a
new gear set, which made it a little quiet - but basically imperceptable
to
the customer.As far as shift correction kits go - some are good - others are better,
some
are not so good, the one for the 4L80E is basically a mechanical fuse to
prevent an electronics failure from blowing (literally ) up the trans. You
cannot change the shift timing or firming up etc. - the electronics have
full control over the shift points & the pressure modulation .Shift kits typically incorporate all the industry knowledge on a
particular
unit - into the little instruction sheet - IE part numbers, new seal
numbers
etc. They also usually fix problems that are characteristic to a
particular
model of trans. For instance - the shift selector valve for the Chrysler
904 - 999 trans is incorrect in that it allows the torque converter to
drain
back to the pan when parked - causing a “dry” converter at start up …-
TRANSGO has the correct vaslve in their shift kit. Some transmissions
absolutely will not live without a shift correction kit - and some
transmission shops will not warranty their rebuilds without your agreement
to the installation of one of these kits - that is how bad some of these
transmissions can be…By the way - electronic transmissions work BETTER with synthetics trans
fluids BECAUSE of the shift solenoids - the stuff lubricates better… That
is why the new spec for DEXIII & MERCON V…BIGGY
----- Original Message -----
From: “Doug Dwyer” dougdwyer@earthlink.net
To: “Modern List” modern@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: [modern] What Transimission on XJ12???The low-gear whine is typical (and normal) planetary gear noise. This
characteristic is found in all Th400 transmissions right back to '64 and
carried on into it’s overdrive cousin, the 4L80E, which is the trans you
have.I’d wager there are some “shift kits” or the like out there for this
trans
to firm up the shifting.Doug Dwyer
Longview, Washington USA----- Original Message -----
From: “Roger Surette” jaguarnut@juno.comI just got my 94 XJ12 back from the body shop… Great job.
Now I remember some annoying properties with the tranny. First is a
whine in low gear that is only noticeable in sport mode. The second
is
sloooww shifts. The VCM shows the tranny display when check out only.
It has new filter & fluid. I would like to upgrade the shifts to be
much
firmer. Does anyone have any experience with these trannies??
Thanks for your response Biggy… I take it that you are saying that
the only probable improvement is the use of synthetic fluid. Is that
correct?? I sure wish this sport mode shifts could be firmed up. I’ll
bet there is a .5 second in the quarter mile of sloppy 1-2, 2-3 shifting.
Roger
On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 07:20:32 -0800 “R Mahoney”
lmmahoney@foxinternet.com writes:
whine in low gear that is only noticeable in sport mode. << This
is
because sport mode holds the trans in low longer to allow the engine
to
build revs …planetary gear whine in automatics is very typical - some have more
than
others - this is because of massed produced clearances, also if the
trans
has been rebuilt, the planetarys usually are reused if the sun gear
thrust
washer clearances are OK, making the noise continue into the next
rebuild.
Then of course there is gear wear - which causes more noise - but
does not
affect the integrity of the assembly ( planetarys are very tuff ) -
its
kinda like tinnitis & ringing in your ears - we all have it, but it
either
drives some crazy, others dont hear it, some hear it but ignore it,
others
were just fine until you brought it to their attention - after which
they
have learned to obsess about it. Gear whine ( and rear end noise,
and the
thunka-thunka from the fuel injection etc… ) is a problem in
expensive
luxury cars that are characteristically quiet - IE you can hear it
)because
it is not masked by road or wind noise. I recall a person who
obsessed about
planetary gear noise in a used Cadillac Eldorado - the stupid
salesman
brought it to the attention of the test drive customer, where a deal
was
made that he would buy the car if the dealer would fix the gear
noise. Well
we took the damn trans out & put first a used gear set same problem
- then a
new gear set, which made it a little quiet - but basically
imperceptable to
the customer.As far as shift correction kits go - some are good - others are
better, some
are not so good, the one for the 4L80E is basically a mechanical
fuse to
prevent an electronics failure from blowing (literally ) up the
trans. You
cannot change the shift timing or firming up etc. - the electronics
have
full control over the shift points & the pressure modulation .Shift kits typically incorporate all the industry knowledge on a
particular
unit - into the little instruction sheet - IE part numbers, new seal
numbers
etc. They also usually fix problems that are characteristic to a
particular
model of trans. For instance - the shift selector valve for the
Chrysler
904 - 999 trans is incorrect in that it allows the torque converter
to drain
back to the pan when parked - causing a “dry” converter at start up
…-
TRANSGO has the correct vaslve in their shift kit. Some
transmissions
absolutely will not live without a shift correction kit - and some
transmission shops will not warranty their rebuilds without your
agreement
to the installation of one of these kits - that is how bad some of
these
transmissions can be…By the way - electronic transmissions work BETTER with synthetics
trans
fluids BECAUSE of the shift solenoids - the stuff lubricates
better… That
is why the new spec for DEXIII & MERCON V…BIGGY
----- Original Message -----
From: “Doug Dwyer” dougdwyer@earthlink.net
To: “Modern List” modern@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: [modern] What Transimission on XJ12???The low-gear whine is typical (and normal) planetary gear noise.
This
characteristic is found in all Th400 transmissions right back to
'64 and
carried on into it’s overdrive cousin, the 4L80E, which is the
trans you
have.I’d wager there are some “shift kits” or the like out there for
this trans
to firm up the shifting.Doug Dwyer
Longview, Washington USA----- Original Message -----
From: “Roger Surette” <@Roger_Iris>I just got my 94 XJ12 back from the body shop… Great job.
Now I remember some annoying properties with the tranny. First
is a
whine in low gear that is only noticeable in sport mode. The
second is
sloooww shifts. The VCM shows the tranny display when check out
only.
It has new filter & fluid. I would like to upgrade the shifts
to be
much
firmer. Does anyone have any experience with these trannies??
With Regards,
Roger
@Roger_Iris
For some reason, I seem to be getting quite a few requests to copy CD’s.
Im not sure how this
came to be, but the JDHT CD’s are very inexpensive, well worth the low
price, and copyrighted material!
If you call Julia, you will have the CD in a short time.
Please note. I do not have any affiliation with JDHT!!