seems like the long Corona pause of “regular” use hasn’t done any good to my car, even if I took her out every now and then …
Yesterday, I had to take the car out of its regular parking spot, started the engine without any problem, drove the car to another parking spot just a few hundred yards away and parked backwards at a quite significant incline. When I left the car I saw an impressive quantity of auto trans fluid basically running down forward of the car. Luckily, the flow ended immediately afterwards. However, this sort of explained the incident two weeks ago when I had parked on a wet street and neither knew the spillage was caused by my car nor that it was auto trans fluid.
Today I drove back to the regular parking spot. The gearbox worked, but I realized that the dipstick didn’t read anything! So I refilled - probably too much! I will check in the course of the week.
Now just one question: where on earth do these massive gushes of trans fluid come from? The car has not been sitting for weeks with too much trans fluid collecting above the gasket. Even after longer phases of inactivity (1 - 3 weeks) there was nothing on the floor. In both instances the leak occurred shortly after a cold start on a running engine. Both times the car was in a downhill position (first time only slight, second time more pronounced).
I seem to remember there was a similar thread recently, but couln’t find it nor remember whether there was a solution to the problem short from pulling and overhauling the gearbox.
Hi Jochen, I had this happen after a long shut down with my S11 turns out that the ATF in the torque converted level drops down into the sump and this migrates the oil into the breather, this then burps the ATF (in my case all over the exhaust manifolds) when running.
Top up and run the engine every now and then.
I went through a similar experience back in 1982 when my father purchased a used 1979 and a half first of the series 3 XJ6’s. on more than a few occasions, when the car was not driven for several weeks, a puddle of transmission fluid would appear under the car. His mechanic at the time assured me this was typical for these cars if not driven regularly, and to keep an eye on it, which he did. The car served him well until 1997, when he finally sold it.
As much as I see the coincidence in your descriptions and with my symptoms, please understand I’m still far from being a happy camper - first of all, obviously, because of the serious mess being caused every single time (plus I can’t just put a bowl underneath in my own garage as the car has misbehaved twice away from its usual parking spot), secondly, because my mind doesn’t like to accept changes without discernable reasons. I’ve had the car for well over 14 years now and it never did that - not even when sitting still over eight weeks. This time it had been used just one week earlier or so. All in all I’d still wish to exclude such incidents altogether.
If the fluid is pressed out over the breather, Robin, isn’t there any method holding it back, maybe something that failed now after 40+ years? Your symptoms fit my experience quite nicely as I observed fumes coming from underneath the heat shield. Initially I was dreading a split exhaust letting escape exhaust gases, but then they were far from hot as exhaust gas blowing by a gasket and there was no unusual noise either. What might be responsible for the excessive pressure driving the fluid out of the breather? Could it be just a failure of the breather? There are two types around. I think I should check the breather hose
Frank, you’re right, maybe I need to suck some fluid out again. While I did follow the instructions in the OM I was not aware that “hot” really means hot gearbox oil, not warmed up engine … could have thought about it sooner, but I’m still hoping for tolerance as during checking oil and switching through the gears everything felt operable with clear “clunks” upon engaging in D and R.
As a short term solution I recycled the ATF from the breather to the dip stick tube using a piece of hose. Shock horror I know but I had a feeling that it was only going to be a short term problem and it did turn out to be that.
Maybe in your case the seal on the TQ has started to fail allowing the ATF to migrate back to the trans sump easier?
My set up was comparable to the top left diagram.
As the fluid expands when heating up - venting is an obvious necessity. And as fluid migrate from various parts while standing - the same may apply, as may parking on a slope. There is some questions arising though; the dipstick tube is an obvious leak-out point, but is nominally sealed. However, it may be pushed out enough to leak and with clogged vent - fluid may be forced out?
But generally; is there actually enough fluid stored ‘elsewhere’ to exceed the level afforded by the dipstick tube to leak out without pressure helping?
As an aside; the general advise is to drive minimum 30 km to warm up the box for ‘hot’ mark readings. And actually; the engine needs some 20 minutes of driving to be fully warmed up and race ready…
The breather theory sounds much better than the front seal idea I entertained, don’t worry too much about sucking fluid out, until you‘ve driven some 20-30 km. Check with the engine running after going through all positions. Yes, there is fluid stored in the torque converter and actuators, the fluid will drain enough in three weeks to leak out here and there. It can come out the breather when overfilled, at least I heard that but it didn’t happen to me when I did it deliberately (after towing).
If the breather was clogged it would probably blow out the dipstick tube.
Is your transmission fluid cherry translucent red, or sort of a strawberry milkshake? My XJ12 transmission overflowed because transmission cooler inside radiator leaked, pumping antifreeze into the transmission. When it mixes together you end up with strawberry milkshake for tranny fluid.
Yes, John, the trans fluid is still fine on the dipstick.
As soon as I get back I’ll check the breather first. Are there any peculiarities with the dipstick seal? Can it dissolve, fall off, be pulled out with the dipstick? The parts diagram doesn’t explain: it seems to be an integral part of the dipstick tube.
No, it’s just a bit of felt (maybe rubber?) and even if it were lost, it wouldn’t matter. It should come out with the stick, just like the one on the engine. Nothing that could go wrong if it sealed too well either.
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We have had one (historic) report, in my time on the list, of the seal moving on the dipstick, Jochen - giving wrong level reading. However, this would, usually, give a false ‘high’ - not necessarily relevant in your case…
But it is a seal, there to prevent leaking fluid and vapour - and if worn, or pushed outwards by pressure, it would not seal properly. Ie, once seated, dipstick should not move when pushed again…
If it is a 65 as in the parts diagram he sent, the dipstick seal cannot move as it is integral to the handle.
The breather tube then originates somewhere else but why are we trying to remove that tube?
Compressed air (just a little!) into the dipstick tube would show if the breather breathes normally.
Sorry, Mike, but my car has the younger BW65 (closer to the BW66 used on SIII cars).
Just returned from a trip and will get back to the car during the next days.
From what I saw I can confirm what David and Frank stated: the seal is incorporated in the dipstick top cover. If it is seated firmly, it’s seated firmly. Yet, I will double check whether the seal itself has disintegrated over the years. The breather is the most plausible story for the moment - even though there is no explanation as for the reason for fluid expelled through the breather.
BTW, I may not have overfilled the gearbox as I just read that the difference between min and max is 2 US pints (0.75 litres) and I didn’t put in more than half a litre. Keep your fingers crossed …
Today I checked back and found (1) the felt seal in the gearbox dipstick looks just fine, (2) my breather setup is the same as in the parts catalogue figured left (check out my post #5), except for (3) my breather is open and the cap C.34258 is missing. In confirmation (4) the breather hose was soaked in oil.
Taken together it might both explain where and why ATF might get out. It does not explain why the cap was taken off, though - either excessive pressure from the gearbox or simple fatigue on the side of that cap?
Now I’ll have to try and find that cap. Does anyone have a picture of what the plugged breather looks like?
