[pre-xk] Mark V DHC Top Rear Window

Passing along a question that came to me offline from a Mark
V DHC owner.
Did the original top have a zippered panel so the rear
window could be opened?

Also what are the dimensions of the glass window?

I have seen one with a large plastic rear window that to me
looked old and possibly original. Was it original?–
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
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In reply to a message from Rob Reilly sent Mon 9 May 2011:

Hi Rob,

AFAIK they were always glass, with a chromed fitting on the
outside. But I am unsure if the larger portion was zipped
originally or not. I would suspect not, but I do not know
and almost all hoods I have seen have had a zipper hidden by
overlapping hooding.

I sure hope we can get to the bottom before I have my hood
rebuilt (don’t hurry, it’s going to take years!)

Cheers,
Pekka T. - 647194–
The original message included these comments:

Passing along a question that came to me offline from a Mark
V DHC owner.
Did the original top have a zippered panel so the rear
window could be opened?
Also what are the dimensions of the glass window?
I have seen one with a large plastic rear window that to me
looked old and possibly original. Was it original?


MKV 3.5L DHC, E-type 2+2 Ser.1 MOD, XJ6C MOD, XJ8 Executive
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In reply to a message from Rob Reilly sent Mon 9 May 2011:

Rob

I would say definitely no.

And if they had , it still wouldn’t have given decent rear
vision : >)–
The original message included these comments:

Did the original top have a zippered panel so the rear
window could be opened?


Ed Nantes SS
Melbourne, Australia
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In reply to a message from Ed Nantes sent Mon 9 May 2011:

As you all might guess, there is some research behind my
question.
I looked through my collection of photos of Mark V DHC tops
I’ve collected off the net.
So far I have 16 cars with a glass rectangle in a larger
cloth panel with a zipper going up one side, along the top
and down the other side, so it drops down and provides a
much larger viewing area, although I think the main reason
was for ventilation.
I have 4 cars with a plastic window that seems to be as
large as the zippered cloth panel on the glass window cars,
and all 4 appear to be zippered.
I have none non-zippered, neither the glass nor plastic
window versions.
None of the 20 are confirmed original tops.
But lest the topic be decided by majority vote, we have the
owner’s handbook, period sales brochures and parts
catalogue. The handbook tells you how to put the top up and
down, but says nothing about a rear window. The sales
brochures do not even mention that the top goes down;
customers were apparently supposed to deduce that from the
pictures.
The parts catalogue on page 122 under Hood Lining Assembly
lists a part BD5279 Fastener ‘‘Zip’’ at Rear of Hood. The
glass BD4094 Backlight is listed on a different page 114 and
is drawn like an oval on plate HZ.–
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
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dear all,
absolutely definetly the MKV DHC had a zipped rear window that with one zip
allowed it to be folded down into box area behind back seat.
The MKIV DHC had the same system.
The window that was clamped into this zip out panel and was a 2 piece chrome
frame that held a piece of glass my belief is that this was exactly the same
as that fitted to the very early XK120’s which also had a glass back window.
Whilst the height of this window more commonly reffered to as “a pillar box
slit” is definietly the same as early XK120’s although it may be slightly
wider.
Later XK120’s had a piece of perspex in lieu of glass and later again
XK120’s with the zipped out back window had a higher vertically window which
was aimed at providing better rearward visibilty.
Given the production of MKV DHC’s went through until at least july 1951 even
after the MKVII was in production the back window frame probably went to
perspex instead of glass as the weight of the back window pulled to much on
the hood fabric.
There are some exceptionally good photos in the Book that I put together
titled “The forerunners of Jaguars” it has 51 pages devoted to the MKV Drop
head coupe it contains in total over 1100 photos and at least 100 photos are
on MKV DHC’s many of them are period pics and two pics show a MKV DHC on the
show room floor when new with back window zipped down another 2 period pics
very clearly show the hood up and the zip line and the rear window frame.
Any MKV Drop head coupe owner really needs a copy of this limited edition
book as we only printed 500 copies and it will never be reprinted there are
satill a few remaining.

Details of the book can be found at
http://www.jtpublications.com.au/forerunners.htm
and details of our recent XK120 book can be found at
www.jtpublications.com.au
and sample pages at http://www.jtpublications.com.au/book/

Terry

Thu, 12 May 2011 13:51:55 -0700

In reply to a message from Ed Nantes sent Mon 9 May 2011:

As you all might guess, there is some research behind my
question.
I looked through my collection of photos of Mark V DHC tops
I’ve collected off the net.
So far I have 16 cars with a glass rectangle in a larger
cloth panel with a zipper going up one side, along the top
and down the other side, so it drops down and provides a
much larger viewing area, although I think the main reason
was for ventilation.
I have 4 cars with a plastic window that seems to be as
large as the zippered cloth panel on the glass window cars,
and all 4 appear to be zippered.
I have none non-zippered, neither the glass nor plastic
window versions.
None of the 20 are confirmed original tops.
But lest the topic be decided by majority vote, we have the
owner’s handbook, period sales brochures and parts
catalogue. The handbook tells you how to put the top up and
down, but says nothing about a rear window. The sales
brochures do not even mention that the top goes down;
customers were apparently supposed to deduce that from the
pictures.
The parts catalogue on page 122 under Hood Lining Assembly
lists a part BD5279 Fastener ‘‘Zip’’ at Rear of Hood. The
glass BD4094 Backlight is listed on a different page 114 and
is drawn like an oval on plate HZ.


XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0From: “Rob Reilly” xk120us4@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: [pre-xk] Mark V DHC Top Rear Window

Rob
when i purchased my DHC in 1980 it had a beat-up old ragged top
which i do not know how old it was, but it sure looked 30 years old :slight_smile:
it had a zippered panel with a framed class window

Dick StreverOn 5/12/2011 1:51 PM, Rob Reilly wrote:

In reply to a message from Ed Nantes sent Mon 9 May 2011:

As you all might guess, there is some research behind my
question.
I looked through my collection of photos of Mark V DHC tops
I’ve collected off the net.
So far I have 16 cars with a glass rectangle in a larger
cloth panel with a zipper going up one side, along the top
and down the other side, so it drops down and provides a
much larger viewing area, although I think the main reason
was for ventilation.
I have 4 cars with a plastic window that seems to be as
large as the zippered cloth panel on the glass window cars,
and all 4 appear to be zippered.
I have none non-zippered, neither the glass nor plastic
window versions.
None of the 20 are confirmed original tops.
But lest the topic be decided by majority vote, we have the
owner’s handbook, period sales brochures and parts
catalogue. The handbook tells you how to put the top up and
down, but says nothing about a rear window. The sales
brochures do not even mention that the top goes down;
customers were apparently supposed to deduce that from the
pictures.
The parts catalogue on page 122 under Hood Lining Assembly
lists a part BD5279 Fastener ‘‘Zip’’ at Rear of Hood. The
glass BD4094 Backlight is listed on a different page 114 and
is drawn like an oval on plate HZ.

In reply to a message from Dick sent Thu 12 May 2011:

Thanks Terry and Dick. Sounds like confirmation on the
zippered glass version.
One of my photos of a top with plastic window is of an
unrestored car and the top looks old but is in fair
condition so I wasn’t sure either way. A change from glass
to plastic makes sense for the weight problem, and is
plausible as a late unrecorded production change. Certainly
US cars began to have plastic windows around that time and
Lyons would have been made aware of it.
As for Mark IV, I found a photo in Wherry’s 1967 book of a
Mark IV with a non-zippered glass window.
Magazines of the time did not road test the DHC, they all
took saloons.–
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
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In reply to a message from Terry McGrath sent Thu 12 May 2011:

Terry

I’ve had a glance at John Clucas’s ‘Forerunners of Jaguar’ book.
It’s an excellent book and if any one misses the 500 copies
deadline, Ian Mullins found copies being sold in the Williamstown
pub.

I mention this as I have just spoken to him and he has a wealth
of knowledge and experience with DHCs, mainly on MK IVs as Mk Vs
don’t float our boat.

There is indeed a picture in the book of a Mk V DHC at Brysons with
what appears to be a zipped in window.

Ian is adamant that Mk IVs didn’t have zipped windows.

It’s worth remembering that Jaguars came out ot Brysons over a
long sea voyage and many had to be stripped back to bare metal and
repainted before sale due to weather damage to the paint.
In this sort of case a hood may also have needed replacing.

Brysons also sold second hand Jaguars.

My MK VII sold new though Brysons was repainted a different colour
before sale.

Could you give us some indication of how the zipper arrangement
worked on a fully lined hood?
Did it have a separate inside zipper for the hood lining?–
The original message included these comments:

absolutely definetly the MKV DHC had a zipped rear window that with one zip
allowed it to be folded down into box area behind back seat.
The MKIV DHC had the same system.
There are some exceptionally good photos in the Book that I put together
titled ‘‘The forerunners of Jaguars’’ it has 51 pages devoted to the MKV Drop
book as we only printed 500 copies and it will never be reprinted there are
satill a few remaining.


Ed Nantes SS
Melbourne, Australia
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In reply to a message from Ed Nantes sent Sat 14 May 2011:

Only one zipper. The main hood and headliner are sewn
together, like any lined jacket.
See www.saloondata.com for pictures of the glass window
version on 647172, 647203, 647335, 647355, 647368, 647422,
647460, 647562.
647284 has it open so you can get an idea of the rear
visibility.
For an all plastic one see 647366, 647370, 647375.–
The original message included these comments:

Could you give us some indication of how the zipper arrangement
worked on a fully lined hood?
Did it have a separate inside zipper for the hood lining?


XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
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In reply to a message from Rob Reilly sent Tue 17 May 2011:

Rob

They are all MK Vs.
I suppose Ian and I were only concerned with MK IVs which as he
has had a lot of them over a period, he’s adamant that they didn’t
have zippers.

Curious though to list DHCs on a ‘saloondata’ site: >)–
Ed Nantes SS
Melbourne, Australia
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In reply to a message from Ed Nantes sent Tue 17 May 2011:

Although the original question was for Mark V, since the
Mark IV was mentioned, I got curious and went through the 39
Mark IV DHCs on saloondata to run a survey.
20 cars have the glass window without zipper. All 20 appear
to be restored cars.
One 637049 has a glass window with zipper. It is claimed by
the seller to be all original but we know how reliable
claims by sellers can be.
Two cars have a plastic window without zipper, one 637209
appearing to be old but in fair condition, and the other
637366 clearly unrestored and in bad condition.
This web site, although not perfect, is as good as any
register I have seen, and I suppose the best place to list 5
passenger DHCs. The data is only as good as the people
entering it, and I did find one car listed under two
different chassis numbers due to an auction house mistake,
and a Mark V listed as a Mark IV due to a typing mistake, so
I have sent correction notes to the webmaster.–
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
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In reply to a message from Terry McGrath sent Thu 12 May 2011:

A look at the Mk IV owners handbook which has a section on
operating the drop head mechanism [ with photos]

It makes no mention in the instructions about a zipped section and
it is not shown in the photos.

I have seen a picture of a MK V on the production line with a
zipped section. I don’t know whether this means all MK Vs had them.–
The original message included these comments:

The MKIV DHC had the same system.


Ed Nantes SS
Melbourne, Australia
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Revisiting an old topic.
I find for my judging guide I need to provide some identifiers of rear windows for the judges.
Width and height measured on the outer edge of the chrome with a pocket tape, general shape and number of screws inside should be enough.

My current belief is that three different windows were used at one time or another in Mark V DHC tops.

BD.1369 is an oval with 20 screws, also used on SS, Mark IV and early XK120 OTS.
647224a



BD.4094 is a semi-rectangle with 16 screws
640073a
647013

BD.4405 is an oval with 16 screws, also used on later XK120 OTS.
647134a


647172

The car way over on the left looks like it might have a BD4405?

So, is anyone in a position to check my screw counts, and get some height and width measurements with a tape on any of these?

And just for fun, here’s another rectangular one.

Another from 1939, too far away to really determine, but I thought it looks taller than a BD1369.

This is the information I am seeking.