[Saloon-lovers] Whitworth tools

I think it is time for me to purchase some Whitworth wrenches
before I damage something. From my experience, the Whitworth
hardware is mainly found on the bolts attaching the carb throttle
links and the fuel inlet/overflow banjo bolts.

Could someone please tell me what Whitworth wrench sizes I need for
the carbs? Does anyone have a good source for these wrenches? I
have seen them on eBay but do not know their quality. I am looking
for a decent set but I am not willing to pay $260 for a 7-piece set
from Snap-on. http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools.asp?
tool=all&Group_ID=567&store=snapon-store

Thank you,–
Micah Wellman, 63 Mark X 351885BW
Hollister, CA, United States
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In reply to a message from Micah Wellman sent Thu 20 Jan 2005:

Hi Micah snap on is for life, and you dont have to buy the set I
think you will only need 2 or 3. Pajtas–
The original message included these comments:

the carbs? Does anyone have a good source for these wrenches? I
have seen them on eBay but do not know their quality. I am looking
for a decent set but I am not willing to pay $260 for a 7-piece set
from Snap-on. http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools.asp?
tool=all&Group_ID=567&store=snapon-store
Thank you,


jaguarjoe 54 XK 120 rdstr 1961 MKIX 94 XJ6
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In reply to a message from Micah Wellman sent Thu 20 Jan 2005:

I think I must be confused. In the reading I have done and in
talking to the guys who sold me my car, and they have worked on
Jags for a long time, unless I misunderstood them, the ends of the
bolts and nuts that are Whitworth are the same as our standard SAE
wrenches and sockets. The threads are different and from what I
understan better as far as torque and holding, but I have taken my
carbs and fuel system apart and put it back together and never had
a bit of problem using mostly 3/8’’ to 1/2’’ wrenches and sockets to
work on these systems. The owner of the British Car Co. I bought
the car from told me that the carbs and fuel systems had most of
what was left of the Whitowrth parts in this car( a 1967 402G) so
to make sure I didn’t lose any parts but that American wrenches
would work fine on them. I am curious to know if there is any real
difference to the Whitworth wrenches and standard wrenches. Thanks,
Bill–
The original message included these comments:

I think it is time for me to purchase some Whitworth wrenches


viejo420G
Tucson, Arizona 85742, United States
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In reply to a message from viejo sent Thu 20 Jan 2005:

SAE wrenches will work on most of the Withworth nuts/bolts.
However, I did find a nut that was half way between a 7/16’’
and 1/2’’ SAE, but a 12mm metric took care of that. I’m
pretty sure that the only wrenches I’ve needed for the carbs
and linkage were 8mm, 3/8’’, 7/16’’, 12mm, 1/2’’ and 21mm, plus
a hex driver for small headed hose clamps.–
The original message included these comments:

I think I must be confused. In the reading I have done and in
talking to the guys who sold me my car, and they have worked on
Jags for a long time, unless I misunderstood them, the ends of the
bolts and nuts that are Whitworth are the same as our standard SAE
wrenches and sockets. The threads are different and from what I


Jacques B / 62 MK II 3.8 Auto
Saint Augustine, Florida, United States
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In reply to a message from Jacques B. sent Thu 20 Jan 2005:

I do have some wrenches in 32’’ size so probably they take care of
most of them. I also have metric, but haven’t run into needing one
of those yet. I wonder what the Whitworth wrenches are called as
far as the sizes go.–
The original message included these comments:

However, I did find a nut that was half way between a 7/16’’


viejo420G
Tucson, Arizona 85742, United States
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In reply to a message from Micah Wellman sent Thu 20 Jan 2005:

British Standard sizes commonly used in the past include the coarse
threads called British Standard Whitworth (BSW), the fine threads
called British Standard Fine (BSF), and the smaller screw sizes
called British Association (BA). The British thread standards here
are not the same as the American or metric. Only some of the
threads of BSW and BSF are very close in pitch, et cetera, to the
UNC and UNF standards. For example, the No. 10 UNF thread is very
close to the No. 2 BA thread. In comparison with wrench sets
commonly used in the United States, the bolt diameter in BSW and
American National Standard (ANSI) both refer to the outer diameter
of the unthreaded bolt shaft and are thus the same there.
Differences arise in the distances from flat-to-flat on the hexagon
bolt head. The following are samples of the distance between the
flats:

Bolt diameter BSW head ANSI head
0.250’’ 0.445 0.4375
0.375 0.600 0.5625
0.5 0.820 0.7500
0.625 1.010 0.9375
0.75 1.200 1.1250
1.0 1.480 1.5000

Thus, one observes that the distances between the flats are not
hugely different between BSW and ANSI bolts but do not have a
constant ratio.

A difference that strikes people is what is marked on the wrench.
The BSF wrench size indicates the bolt diameter, the ANSI wrench
size indicates the distance between the flats on the wrench. Hence,
an ANSI 3/4’’ wrench has a 3/4’’ gap and is used on a bolt with 1/2’’
diameter. A BSF 3/4’’ wrench has a 1.2’’ gap and is used on a bolt
with 3/4’’ diameter. A complete set of ANSI wrenches and metric
wrenches will cover most BSW applications.

See Machinery’s Handbook for many details. Depending on your need,
you may need to find older revised editions since the BSW, BSF, and
BA standards were ruled obsolete about 40 years ago by British
engineering standard setters.

For getting good Whitworth wrenches Snap-on is top of the line and
will please for life. Snap-on offers huge discounts in some retail
markets, up to 2/3 off can be found, but many think they are worth
full retail. Yet it is fun to collect the correct brand wrenches
for the specific Jaguar. There is a supply of such wrenches
available via Jag swap meets and such. For example, Cordell Newby
(800-884-0155) either has or can guide you towards some wrenches at
the several dollars per wrench level.–
Roger McWilliams
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In reply to a message from Micah Wellman sent Thu 20 Jan 2005:

Just a note in regards to my post.

I am doing a very detailed restoration and I plan to show the car.
I had all of the carburetor hardware refinished in cadmium. I do
not what to destroy the finish by trying to use the improper tool.
If someone has a set or Whitworth wrenches and can confirm the
sizes of the fuel inlet banjo bolt, the float overflow banjo bolt
and the linkage hardware, I would deeply appreciate it.

Roger,
Thank you for your info on the Whitworth system. The Jag-lovers
site also has some good information for those who are interested:
http://www.jag-lovers.org/xk-lovers/library/whitworth_system.html

Thanks also to those who replied.

Sincerely,–
The original message included these comments:

I think it is time for me to purchase some Whitworth wrenches
before I damage something. From my experience, the Whitworth
hardware is mainly found on the bolts attaching the carb throttle
links and the fuel inlet/overflow banjo bolts.
Could someone please tell me what Whitworth wrench sizes I need for
the carbs? Does anyone have a good source for these wrenches? I
have seen them on eBay but do not know their quality. I am looking
for a decent set but I am not willing to pay $260 for a 7-piece set
from Snap-on. http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools.asp?


Micah Wellman, 63 Mark X 351885BW
Hollister, CA, United States
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In reply to a message from pajtas sent Thu 20 Jan 2005:

There has been a thread on the pre XK forum this week on Whitworth
which identifies several suppliers of tools and fittings.
P.–
Peter J. Smith, 1966 3.8S, 67 MGB
carson city nevada, United States
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In reply to a message from Roger McWilliams sent Thu 20 Jan 2005:

Roger, lots of good information. One thing I found interesting was
that I went to the site that Micah mentioned and it also explained
a lot. One thing that I noticed was that it said that a lot of the
bolt heads could use metric. The sizes that you gave in your chart
when converted to fractions of a sixteenth all came out to standard
ANSI(think that’s right, anyway american wrench sizes). I used a
standard wrench on the bango bolts when blowing out the gas tanks
and they fit snug and did not change the looks of the bolt head at
all. I have never felt that metric wrenches fit as well on metric
bolts as standard wrenches fit on standard bolts. By the way, I
also prefer Big Mac wrenches over Snapon because of there design
making the wrench fit 4 of the sides instead of just 2. One thing
I really like about these cars is that so far whenever I loosen a
bolt or nut, it then turns off easily by hand and you don’t have to
fight it the whole way. Thanks again to all for this good
information.
Bill–
viejo420G
Tucson, Arizona 85742, United States
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