As always it seems, it will most likely follow the market. When the big move on the market occurs, some say we’ll overdue, hobby cars will take a dive with it if for no there reason that that’s where the big hobby money comes from.
As the market recovers the hobby car market will follow.
Not if he’s discounting his labor.
Anyway, the auction will be over in a few days and we’ll see. His last one, a '66 restored the same way, hit a record $275 in April on BaT.
I understand…but at 275 in April the car was a loss.
Could people be using BAT as a marketing tool for their company?
Maybe?
Is this person an enthusiast?
Or a business executive?
Its a losing proposition
You’re picking and choosing only a few low sales. Here’s the graph I posted awhile back. We’re seeing the good S1 roadsters top the $200k mark, and more.
Also, the BaT auctions see the most action in the last few minutes. If you haven’t watched one, the one being discussed in this thread is a great example to see.
Im really not…These cars arent bondo buckets, those are going for 40 to 60 grand.
The time and labor is 300 grand and Im being kind, lets include the price of the car?
So these two English blokes restoring these cars are just plain stupid? They’ve been racking up the record prices in physical auctions in the past, and are now getting their feet wet on BaT, with seriously reduced transaction fees for both seller and buyer.
What $ number are you using for labor, and how many hours does it take to do a car like this, in your estimation?
Tommy I never said that…
If we study this , they are using and creating a market by using BAT.
Call CJ, Jaguar Heritage group, Kevin Kay, Steel wings.
None of them could do a full restoration under 300 grand and under 12 months.
Engine 6 to 15 grand
transmission, old or new gears 4 to 8 grand
Rear 3 to 6 grand
Im throwing in installation time on that
There is 30 grand alone.
Interior 30 grand
wiring 5 grand
wheeles and tires 10 grand
it goes on and on.
God bless the guy for restoring our beloved ETYPE, But he is using bat as a 500 dollars advertisement tool.
Smart guy.
gtjoey
And apparently, succeeding marvelously! We’ll see how this one goes.
If you say so…….
Gtjoey13-4
I tend to agree with Joey. I have a friend here in San Diego who was building high-end, ‘hot rod’ 911 Porsches a few years ago, and selling them on BaT.
He built and sold about 4 in a 3-4 year period, and the prices he was getting seemed astonishing…$260k, $275k, etc. He sort of became a “BaT Celebrity” for a while, and all the Porsche guys would get all giddy when one of his offerings would come up for auction.
Everyone seemed to think the guy was getting rich, but the truth was, he was barely covering his costs, and this included having his father-in-law doing the paint jobs! Even doing most of the assembly himself, I suspect his hourly rate would have been higher if he had been washing dishes at a restaurant.
After becoming a BaT sensation just a few years ago, he’s pretty much got out of the Porsche game all together, and seems to be making more money flipping 60’s and 70’s Ford trucks these days.
I am curious why they used obvious repros for the spinners. Can’t they find originals as well as original fasteners? I’ve seen other high end restorations that use them. I will rechrome my originals if they need it during my ownership. I had my original nuts and bolts cad plated.
–Drew
Interesting conversation, as are the BAT comments.
Joey, I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the market dynamic. Crashing, that is. I see no real evidence of that. What I have perceived is a run up in values driven to some extent by the pandemic and possibly associated inflationary pressures, and while it will not surprise me if there follows a cyclical softening of the market for E-types, as has happened time and again over the fifty years I’ve been monitoring it, I fully expect the slope of the trendline will continue to be positive well into the future. I would not be upset to be proven wrong. Rather, if prices do take a big tumble I’ll be inclined to seek out that driver S1 FHC I’ve always lusted after, though I expect I’d have a lot of competition, which in turn will drive prices back up. One might call it a “Catch-22 market”.
Tom, I also respectfully disagree with your assessment that the auction car, by virtue of it being among the last of the true Series 1s, is as significant as the earliest FF, WL, OBL cars. The first of anything carries much, much greater panache than the last in line. In my estimation it’s an entirely intangible aspect of this car. Anyone viewing it, whether expert or otherwise, can’t possibly perceive what ostensibly makes it special until someone tells them about it. Very high restoration standard aside, this car is essentially the same as the hundreds of E-type roadsters that preceded it on the assembly line and any special status it might have is entirely in the mind of the beholder.
Speaking of which, the fact that this car has had a colour change automatically makes it less desirable, hence less “valuable”, in the minds of the exactly-as-it-left-the-factory crowd.
Hmmm. Stream-of-consciousness rambling? Yup. Slow day. I should go for a drive to clear my head …
What else?
Oh yeah. Several comments about the MoMA E-type and how this one on BAT is even better. Well, yeah. I’ve seen the MoMA E-type up close. Spent a fair bit of time walking around it, examining it and taking pictures. It’s what Hagerty would call a Condition 3 car. As far as standard of fit and finish it’s certainly not in the same league at all. Not even close. Still, it’s a famous car, so would command a higher selling price than any comparable. Yet another premium entirely in the mind of the beholder. Lots of that going around.
So, Joey, when are you going to cash in? 
I still think we need to wait at least a few more months before we really know where the auction market is headed. At present, it’s on fire, which is corroborated by the statistics Sports Car Market magazine has compiled.
“A few years ago,” there was little action on BaT on any car, let alone restored E-Types. (Once again, look at the graph I posted above.) Covid flipped the auction market on its head, and BaT appears to be the clear winner.
Well, we can agree to disagree. But if you look at both BaT and physical auction histories on S1 roadsters, by and large the S1 4.2 goes for more, other than 1961 OBL cars. I have a spreadsheet I’ve compiled of auction reports dating back to 2012 that confirms this (long before BaT). In it, I found that S1 1.25 cars that had closed headlight conversions sold for lower prices. In short, those in the know want a bonafide “early 67” if they can get their hands on one.
The only cosmetic difference between a late 1966 and early 1967 is the switch to a black ambla shift boot from the rubber gaiter. Note the alternator mud shield, sun visors and enclosed pedal box were added in mid 1966.
In my crowd, that rare early '67 with ambla shift boot and glass covered headlights is huge, just like the unique qualities are to the fanatics among us who lust after the 61 with outside bonnet latches.
The sales statistics show this to be untrue. In JCNA circles, as long as the car has factory original interior and exterior colors for that model year, it makes no difference. But if you paint your car pink, you’ve seriously degraded the value.
Also, note that the seller has made it clear that this is not a JCNA factory perfect car. It has upgraded components, such as modern cooling system, among other items.
It has been shown definitively that JCNA concours perfect cars do not necessarily garner higher auction prices than perfectly restored drivers with modern improvements.
It would be interesting to correlate collector car prices with the stock market. It always amazes me that when bond prices move up a fraction, tech stock prices seem to drop ten fold more even though you would be clipping bond coupons for years to make up the difference. I suspect that part of the upward pressure on car prices comes from investors who don’t like the volatility of the stock market, or the puny returns of the bond market. Good, bad or indifferent, it is more fun to own a collector car, particularly if you can pick one up for less than the cost of a recent restoration. How many of these cars are purchased by investors/speculators? Who knows? But my guess is it is enough to affect the market as they move in and out of it.
It’s nice to see people (finally) starting to say this sort of thing out loud.
Believe it or not, even MGB guys tend to get snooty about originality, and how it relates to value. They’ll bash “modified” cars, because they can’t see past the end of their nose, and they can only picture cars that are poorly modified.
In the last couple of years, and few tastefully modified MG’s have come along on BaT that have blown the all-original cars away in sale price….even the “time capsule” cars. The market for dead-nuts original 60’s car is diminishing or flat at-best, but the market for cars that have been tastefully “upgraded” cars appears quite strong.
I think all asset prices have been on the up since March last year - house prices might be another good comparison for classic car prices .
Yea, and just as in Jaguar circles… well, progress is measured, one funeral at a time.
I’m not saying colour change actually does devalue a car on the wider market - I’ve consistently argued the contrary, citing the world record price paid for “Black Beauty” that sold for $27,500 as a primrose OTS in 2005 then for $467,500 in 2013 after having been restored to a very high standard with a colour change. The point I’m making is there is a segment of the community that puts a high value on factory original colours who would not even contemplate buying an E-type that’s had a colour change. It’s a paradigm, one that many do not share. The same thing goes for other perceptions of “value”. Some put an absolute value on matching numbers and likewise won’t consider buying any car that isn’t. Others don’t give a rat’s patootie.