Hi all. Got a question for you all. I am sure it has been discussed before. My 66 E-type with 57,000 miles on it needs a need throwout bearing. My father replaced the grahite one back in 1971 with only 47,286 miles on it. He didn’t like the grahite one. I am thinking it isn’t one of Jaguars better ideas given it was worn out with only 47,000 miles. He replaced it with I think a Chevy real bearing one. Well it didn’t hold up. I don’t think it could handle the pressure. I just took it out Today as a matter a fact. It was totally shot and froze up. It was trying to act like the grahite one. Not spinning.
So my quesion is where do I go from here? I have read that the original works just fine. It may work just fine, but pulling the engine every 50,000 miles just doesn’t seem like my idea of works fine.
Anyone every replaced the throw out bearing with a real bearing? And if so, what was it out of?
Hi Mel: If the Jaguar one lasted 50 years and 47,000 miles and the Chevy
one two months and less than a thousand miles, I think you have answered
your own question. Besides, even if we assume you will get no better
longevity out of your new bearing-- 47,000 miles, how long do you imagine it will
take you to get to that number? 10 years, 20 years?? Let your kids worry
about it at that time!!
Seriously, if you got 47,000 miles with the first one, another 47,000
miles should take the car out to the end of your time of ownership. Let
that future owner experience the joy of pulling the engine and trans. out of
an E. That will encourage him to drive the car with a lot less leg on the
clutch in order to get the car out to 141,000 miles- 47,000 miles per
bearing!!
Regards, Bob McAnelly
Thank You Bob, and your reasoning is very sound. I am leaning toward putting the original back in. No sense re inventing the wheel so to speak. But if there is a bearing out there that would fit? I might just do that. By the way the car has set for a number of years. The clutch is probably the reason it hasn’t been on the road since 1987.
Thank you very much for your reply,
Mel----------------------------------------
From: Jagdad11@aol.com
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:41:11 -0400
Subject: Re: [xk] Throw out bearing on a 66 E-type
To: xk@jag-lovers.org
Hi Mel: If the Jaguar one lasted 50 years and 47,000 miles and the Chevy
one two months and less than a thousand miles, I think you have answered
your own question. Besides, even if we assume you will get no better
longevity out of your new bearing-- 47,000 miles, how long do you imagine it will
take you to get to that number? 10 years, 20 years?? Let your kids worry
about it at that time!!
Seriously, if you got 47,000 miles with the first one, another 47,000
miles should take the car out to the end of your time of ownership. Let
that future owner experience the joy of pulling the engine and trans. out of
an E. That will encourage him to drive the car with a lot less leg on the
clutch in order to get the car out to 141,000 miles- 47,000 miles per
bearing!!
Regards, Bob McAnelly
In reply to a message from MELVIN SALTER sent Thu 5 Jul 2012:
Although the E-Type forum could probably address your
question more thoroughly, there may be some history of
failures in cars of that time period. I had a '70 E from
'75-77 and in '75 at about 60k miles the throw out bearing
wrecked the clutch and I had to drive home 30 miles starting
and stopping only in 4th gear. I discovered a DPO had
already replaced it once and had cut the front picture frame
to get the engine out and welded an angle across afterwards,
so I could not get the engine out without taking most of the
front end apart. A new picture frame cost more than the
clutch parts. So the motto is ‘‘Do it right the first time,
or do it right the second time.’’
My 120 and Mark V are still on their original carbon throw
out bearings.–
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
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Back when I had a MK2 as my daily driver I put 130,000 miles on the original
throwout bearing. The one I’m driving now had 120,000 miles on it when I
bought it. I replaced the driven plate, surfaced the flywheel and pressure
plate and put the old throwout bearing back in. Unless you sit at
stoplights with the clutch in they should last forever. They’re used for,
what, maybe a second when you shift. Under normal circumstances they should
last forever.
Mike Eck
New Jersey, USA
'51 XK120 OTS, '62 3.8 MK2 MOD, '72 SIII E-Type 2+2> My 120 and Mark V are still on their original carbon throw
out bearings.
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
In reply to a message from MELVIN SALTER sent Thu 5 Jul 2012:
Mel,
The physical geometry of the clutch actuation mechanism on
the E-type (and XKs for that matter) does not lend itself to
use of a roller-bearing type throwout bearing. The bearing
does not move purely on the axis of the crankshaft, but also
radially, as a result of the arc taken by the clutch fork.
As a result, the face of the throwout bearing must slide
radially across the face of the surface that actuates the
clutch pressure plate. A graphite throwout bearing is well
suited to this motion. Roller bearings are not. For a roller
bearing to work, it needs to be constrained somehow, so that
it only moves along the axis of the crankshaft, which adds
some complexity. The XK’s Unlimited Catalog lists a ‘‘Throw-
Out Bearing Conversion’’ kit P/N 17-1504, which provides this
functionality. You will note in it’s description in the
catalog, it states ‘‘In practice there is nothing really
wrong with Jaguar�s carbon throw-out bearing, although
it does prevent the use of alternative clutches’’. I have no
personal experience of this kit, so I cannot comment on it,
other than to highlight it to you, in case it is what you
are looking for. The other thing worth noting is that the
lifetime of the carbon throwout bearings can be severely
shortened if the clutch mechanism is not adjusted properly,
as that can cause the bearing to remain in contact with the
pressure plate at all times. The clutch needs to be adjusted
properly, and regularly as part of scheduled maintenance. As
others have said, if you do that, it should outlive us
all…
Hi David,
I checked the XK’s catalog & it shows discontinued for 17-1504. Last
time I checked, it listed at upper $200’s range.
Regards, Otto-----Original Message-----
From: davidxk
To: xk
Sent: Sun, Jul 8, 2012 1:10 am
Subject: Re: [xk] Throw out bearing on a 66 E-type
In reply to a message from MELVIN SALTER sent Thu 5 Jul 2012:
Mel,
The physical geometry of the clutch actuation mechanism on
the E-type (and XKs for that matter) does not lend itself to
use of a roller-bearing type throwout bearing. The bearing
does not move purely on the axis of the crankshaft, but also
radially, as a result of the arc taken by the clutch fork.
As a result, the face of the throwout bearing must slide
radially across the face of the surface that actuates the
clutch pressure plate. A graphite throwout bearing is well
suited to this motion. Roller bearings are not. For a roller
bearing to work, it needs to be constrained somehow, so that
it only moves along the axis of the crankshaft, which adds
some complexity. The XK’s Unlimited Catalog lists a ‘‘Throw-
Out Bearing Conversion’’ kit P/N 17-1504, which provides this
functionality. You will note in it’s description in the
catalog, it states ‘‘In practice there is nothing really
wrong with Jaguar�s carbon throw-out bearing, although
it does prevent the use of alternative clutches’’. I have no
personal experience of this kit, so I cannot comment on it,
other than to highlight it to you, in case it is what you
are looking for. The other thing worth noting is that the
lifetime of the carbon throwout bearings can be severely
shortened if the clutch mechanism is not adjusted properly,
as that can cause the bearing to remain in contact with the
pressure plate at all times. The clutch needs to be adjusted
properly, and regularly as part of scheduled maintenance. As
others have said, if you do that, it should outlive us
all…
Thank you for a very instructive reply. All that you say makes sense. It’s just I have not seen any other cars out there that use a carbon or graphite type throw out bearing. Not that I have that much experience with clutches. It just seems like it should be like all the other’s and use a anti friction type bearing (ball or roller bearing). I am planning on installing the carbon bearing and will keep an eye on the proper adjustment. The fact is this car will probably not be driven all that much anyway. (I have a 99 Boxster with 34,000 miles on it). And like Otto mentioned. That conversion kit from XK’s unlimited is no longer available.
This site is great because of folks like yourself and so many others that will take the time and reply to us lost souls out there.
In reply to a message from MELVIN SALTER sent Thu 5 Jul 2012:
Mel,
The physical geometry of the clutch actuation mechanism on
the E-type (and XKs for that matter) does not lend itself to
use of a roller-bearing type throwout bearing. The bearing
does not move purely on the axis of the crankshaft, but also
radially, as a result of the arc taken by the clutch fork.
As a result, the face of the throwout bearing must slide
radially across the face of the surface that actuates the
clutch pressure plate. A graphite throwout bearing is well
suited to this motion. Roller bearings are not. For a roller
bearing to work, it needs to be constrained somehow, so that
it only moves along the axis of the crankshaft, which adds
some complexity. The XK’s Unlimited Catalog lists a ‘‘Throw-
Out Bearing Conversion’’ kit P/N 17-1504, which provides this
functionality. You will note in it’s description in the
catalog, it states ‘‘In practice there is nothing really
wrong with Jaguar’s carbon throw-out bearing, although
it does prevent the use of alternative clutches’’. I have no
personal experience of this kit, so I cannot comment on it,
other than to highlight it to you, in case it is what you
are looking for. The other thing worth noting is that the
lifetime of the carbon throwout bearings can be severely
shortened if the clutch mechanism is not adjusted properly,
as that can cause the bearing to remain in contact with the
pressure plate at all times. The clutch needs to be adjusted
properly, and regularly as part of scheduled maintenance. As
others have said, if you do that, it should outlive us
all…
In reply to a message from davidxk sent Sat 7 Jul 2012:
Good post David! I couldn’t have said it better myself:-)
Mel
The MG used a carbon throwout bearing, and I wouldn’t be
surprised if Triumph and Healey did as well.
Joel–
ex jag, '66 E-type S1 4.2, '56 XK140dhc, '97 XJ-6
Denison, TX, United States
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In reply to a message from MELVIN SALTER sent Thu 5 Jul 2012:
Your father replaced the through out bearing in 1971. That was 41
years ago and 50,000 miles. Really not bad do you think. My 67
through out bearing also just failed at 49,700 miles. It must be
the life of the bearing. Looking at my original clutch, it was
pretty worn. I replaced mine with a Jag. OEM bearing.–
steve
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This is roughly what a new one vs my dead one looks like. I drove about 100km metal to metal avoiding the clutch just to get home from a rally. New one has about 6mm graphite.
Ps: replyimg to your question, its better to change it. I guess the box is out, 60 euro is realatively a low risk, and the alternative is having to pull it out again.
I’m a firm believer that finding an NOS throw-out bearing is worth the effort. They pop up on eBay fairly regularly, and can often be bought for about the same price as a modern repro.
The modern repros have been plagued with early-hour failures in recent years, and I’ve seen no compelling evidence that the problem has been solved.
There would be nothing more soul-destroying than having to pull the engine back out for a failed $60 TO bearing a few months from now.
Except maybe the guy who discovered still on the bench those two little $1 clips that secure the throwout bearing to its fork a few minutes after a fresh, post-clutch-job startup and loud “clunk”. Now that would bite. No, not me. But reported in J-L some decades ago, iirc.
I can however almost emphasise. On doing a shop cleanup after the XK120 engine refresh and reinstall I found the spanking new crankshaft pilot bearing sitting patiently in a little jar of engine oil on the bench. Enough maybe not to make you weep but certainly to turn the shop air blue… but all it took was pulling the engine again, separating the gearbox/bell housing, removing the clutch assembly for access, spending a few hours getting the old bearing out and a couple of minutes putting the new one in, reinstalling the clutch disc and pressure plate, remating the gearbox/bell housing to the engine, dropping the engine back in. Pfft. A trifle. Nothing at all. Do it with one eye closed. One hand tied behind your back and doing it backwards while using a mirror just to make it more challenging.
About as devastating as having two different throw-out bearings on the work bench and installing the wrong one for the clutch. It turns the thrill of victory after a rebuild into the agony of defeat.
Do check that the new throw out bearing has the graphite locked in it by a small dowel pin or a screw. I have a thread I posted when my new throwout bearing graphite started to spin in the housing and make noise and wear like crazy. It all had to come out again.
