I need to remove the timing chain cover to fix the hydraulic tensioner. I have read many forum posts on the subject and the advice I am seeking is find the easiest way given my situation.
The engine is in the car with radiator and water pump out but with both the head and sump in place. I have removed the studs connecting the cover to the head and also the studs at the bottom of the cover. I will next remove the crank damper, cone and spacer
My question is can I then remove the cover without raising the head and lowering the front of the sump. My own assumption is no. So the next question is can I remove the cover by raising the head by an inch or so OR lowering the front of the sump by an inch or so?
If the answer is yes, which is better (head or sump) to make cover removal easiest?
I think if you can remove the crank seal it should pull out as the two dowels would be the last thing keeping it in place, (mind the bolts to the head via the timing cover, in addition to the two studs) so all you (theoretically) need to do is drop the sump a bit so the seal can come out?
Maybe not even that if the spacer comes out, the one the seal rides on. Flip it so the new seal has a fresh running surface. Put the seal back, install the timing cover and then put the spacer in on reassembly.
I think you can remove the timing cover without removing the head, but not without removing or lowering the sump. Reason is that the studs attaching the head are easily removed using the double lock nut method, but there is not sufficient room at the sump to remove the inner studs. Unless you can use some special tool to remove these studs, then the sump must be dropped.
I believe he has the lower four out already. I think (hope) dropping the front of the sump half an inch is not so bad…
6 hours might be possible. but it could be worse!
I noted you are doing this because of a forgotten bolt that seals an oil hole. If you replaced the chain tensioner, did you remember to swap the orifice from the old to the new?
This thread of mine talks about the chain tensioner. Lower chain tensioner different from original, be careful
With the head lifted slightly, so long as the vertical studs are removed or the head is lifted above them. I don’t know how you could suspend it there safely though. You can’t just stick something between the head and block or it would ruin the head gasket. Maybe it could be suspended by rope?
The sump needs to come off though. The front crank seal needs to be removed and replaced. That means removing the center spacer collar. That can only be done by tapping/prying it out from below. The timing cover is doweled to the block so it must slide straight out. That can only happen if the seal is removed and the studs are either removed or freed up.
Plus there is the matter of resealing the sump. How can you do that if the isn’t removed, mating surfaces cleaned, new gasket and rear seal installed? It would just be a guessing game. If it’s a standard paper seal it will likely tear on removal. On a 3.8 The sump can be dropped in about 90 minutes including dropping the exhaust down pipes.
On an original 3.8 it likely has a tin head gasket so it’s a bit easier to slip the TC out and back in, by just loosening the head. It’s harder with a composite gasket because it will tend to bunch up unless all pressure is removed.
How did you remove the spacer and seal with the sump lowered an inch?
I watched Dick Maury perform this task on my car. He removed the sump, not the head. If there was an easier way I’m willing to bet he would have known it.
The trick I saw Dick use was to slightly bevel the back edge of the top of the timing cover to allow it to go back on w/o damage to the head gasket.
BTW - 6 hours was about Dick’s time on this. I had the bonnet and radiator off before he got there but he also had 4 guys watching and asking questions (I won’t try to claim we were in any way helping).
I did the job in 1979 so can’t really remember. I just rested the sump on the cross member and pulled off the cover and seal. The sump gasket came away easily as it hadn’t had any gasket bodge put on it in the past. I replaced the chain at the same time with a split link one.
I don’t think you can get the cover off if you CANT get the oil seal distance piece out?
It’s physically impossible without dropping the sump. I’ve done it loads of times with the sump
Off. Slight chamfer on inner edge of head face of cover dues help. If it’s a composite gasket,
If any of the paper surface comes out,with the cover, you can use a good oil resistant silicone to compensate for the gap on reassembly
I think it would be really difficult. Since the cover is keyed to the block it has to pull straight back to disengage from it. Maybe the seal could be mostly destroyed first using a sharp blade? Once it’s off one could grasp the collar but not before, except from underneath.
I believe it was described above that Dick lowered the sump but kept the head in place.
I think it’s a bad idea to cut the seal away and it will not do any good, the issue is the outer ring of the seal. Sump in place there is no way the seal could be cut. With the sump dropped so the seal can pass by the casting, the timing cover can be pried forward with a few knives carefully inserted just as I described it. The spacer (running surface) can stay in place until it is all removed, and only has to come out when the new seal goes in.
The head definitely stays where it is.
Just to report final success. As advised, I dropped the sump enough so oil seal came out ok. Then with new oil seal and timing cover gasket, it went back together well but much more than 6 hours work as I am old -86- and slow
I did not change the sump gasket so keeping fingers crossed
Thanks for good advive
I did not know you were 86! You have my respect, well done and thank you for reporting back. I hope stays leak free.
I’m happy it worked out as I thought.
but it could be worse!