[v12-engine] engine oil

V12-Engine
1

my local tire dealer just changed my oil/filter, put in
kendall,10w30, semi-synthetic. some have recomended a
pennsylvania oil, kendall is not readily available in my area.
havoline, valvoline and pennzoil are. any thoughts out there as to
what is best for my 1994 v12, xj12/xj81??
(i’m not trying to get a synthetic-non synthetic debate started
though.) used only 1 qt in 5000 mi, no leaks.
heard some bad things about castrol. never used it.
car has appx 89k on odo.–
v12madman
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2

v12madman wrote:

my local tire dealer just changed my oil/filter, put in
kendall,10w30, semi-synthetic. some have recomended a
pennsylvania oil, kendall is not readily available in my area.
havoline, valvoline and pennzoil are. any thoughts out there as to
what is best for my 1994 v12, xj12/xj81??

I seriously doubt if it’s 10W-30! At one time, Jaguar was reportedly
rejecting warranty claims on the V12 if 10W-40 was used! The engine
is generally supposed to use 20W-50. Check your owner’s manual for
the proper oil weights for your area, but IMHO I wouldn’t use 10W-30
on a dare. In fact, I’d report that tire dealer to somebody for
gross incompetence.

– Kirbert

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3

Don’t know if its different for the 6.0 engines, not sure why it would be,
but for the 5.3 V12s the Jaguar ROM says:

-20�F to 15�F 5/20, 5/30, 5/40

-5�F to 60�F 10/30, 10/40

15�F and higher 10/50, 15/40, 15/50, 20/40, 20/50

So the 10/40 or 10/30 would seem technically appropriate/acceptable for
winter use in some cold areas. I myself used 20/50 for 9 months out of the
year and usually went to 10/40 for December-January-February.

I suspect the owners manual says the same, and probably All Data and other
resources a repair shop would probably be using so I’m not sure where the
gross incompetence bit would come in.

Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJR

I seriously doubt if it’s 10W-30! At one time, Jaguar was reportedly
rejecting warranty claims on the V12 if 10W-40 was used! The engine
is generally supposed to use 20W-50. Check your owner’s manual for
the proper oil weights for your area, but IMHO I wouldn’t use 10W-30
on a dare. In fact, I’d report that tire dealer to somebody for
gross incompetence.

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !From: “Kirbert” palmk@nettally.com

4

In reply to a message from v12madman sent Mon 1 Oct 2007:

Okay the great viscosity cunundrum again. It seems the consensus on
this forum is 20/50 coming from some very knowing chaps. However, I
have two 6.0 cars 94 XJS and a 96 XJ12 and here is what the owners
manual says for both cars, 10/30 is the prefered oil. 10/40 can be
used in warmer climates but 10/30 is prefered under all conditions.
Then there is the nice little bar graph chart. If you look at bar
with 15/50 & 20/50 both are fine but not recommended below 0 C (32
F)which is probably fine for Kirby. But there it is in black and
white and FYI this is the same for the 94 4.0. BTW Rec change
interval is 7500 mi.
My take on it is that modern oils (synthetic or whatever) are
vastly superior to the old formulations and Jaguar was moving into
the modern era. I personally do not use my V12 coupe in hot weather
and it does sit a good bit promoting cold start concerns. I am
worried about 20/50 on a colder AM start after stitting for a week
or more. I have used 10/40 synthetic and on my next change I was
thinking of using 1/2 15/50 and 1/2 10/40 just because it seems
reasonable.–
The original message included these comments:

kendall,10w30, semi-synthetic. some have recomended a
what is best for my 1994 v12, xj12/xj81??

–
Mike Blair 94 XJS x 2 (6.0 Coupe & 4.0 Convertable)+85 HE
powhatan/Va, United States
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5

Mike, you write
“…It seems the consensus on
this forum is 20/50 coming from some very knowing chaps. However, I
have two 6.0 cars 94 XJS and a 96 XJ12 and here is what the owners
manual says for both cars, 10/30 is the prefered oil. 10/40 can be
used in warmer climates but 10/30 is prefered under all conditions.
Then there is the nice little bar graph chart. If you look at bar
with 15/50 & 20/50 both are fine but not recommended below 0 C (32
F)which is probably fine for Kirby. But there it is in black and
white and FYI this is the same for the 94 4.0. BTW Rec change
interval is 7500 mi.
My take on it is that modern oils (synthetic or whatever) are
vastly superior to the old formulations and Jaguar was moving into
the modern era. I personally do not use my V12 coupe in hot weather
and it does sit a good bit promoting cold start concerns. I am
worried about 20/50 on a colder AM start after stitting for a week
or more. I have used 10/40 synthetic and on my next change I was
thinking of using 1/2 15/50 and 1/2 10/40 just because it seems
reasonable…”
…
What about getting the best of both worlds with 5/50 synthetic?
We had no problems with Mobil 1 in that grade on our XJ-S HE, changing at
7,500.

In the series 1 XJ12 I switched from the 5/50 to Mobil 1 V-Twin (20/50) when
the latter became available in NZ about 5 years ago.

Here in South Auckland NZ the daily max is almost always above 10c in winter
with mild summers. The 20/50 still seems to cope with cold starts on frosty
mornings when we visit the cooler parts of the country, but if you’re in
doubt, why not try 5/50?

cheers
George–

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6

In reply to a message from George Morrell sent Fri 5 Oct 2007:

Personally for temperate climates that do not go much
below freezing I hate the sound of any oil with a 30 in it,
I use full synthetic 5 / 50 . 30 yrs ago back home we used
pretty well 20 / 50 year round. I am a full synthetic
believer and do not care if it cost way more, I will however
not put 10 / 30 in anything whether it is synthetic or
not.It is 5/50m full sysnthetic for our family. Actually
Walmart has a good price on Mobil 1.
Regards, Art–
Pacific Jaguar Enthusiasts Group 44, Canada.
Pitt Meadows, BC, Canada
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7

Ok, Art…don’t leave us hangin’ !

Why not ?

Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJR

I will however
not put 10 / 30 in anything whether it is synthetic or
not.

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !From: “Jagart” silver007@shaw.ca

8

In reply to a message from Doug Dwyer sent Sun 7 Oct 2007:

Yes I am also curious.
Remember Jaguar recommends 10W/30 for the 6 liter V12 cars as the
PREFFERED oil under all conditions!
I am also a believer in synthetic but that is not the issue here.
Another recommendation by Jaguuar for 6 L V12 and almost every
other modern engined car on the market today is to ALWAYS use oil
designated as ‘‘Energy Conserving II’’ I have noticed that any oil
with an upper number greater than 30 does not have the II but is
either just plain energy conserving or nothing. Apparently higher
weight oils do increase fuel consupmtion by a VERY slight degree.–
The original message included these comments:

I will however
not put 10 / 30 in anything whether it is synthetic or
not.

–
Mike Blair 94 XJS x 2 (6.0 Coupe & 4.0 Convertable)+85 HE
powhatan/Va, United States
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9

eyedoc wrote:

Remember Jaguar recommends 10W/30 for the 6 liter V12 cars as the
PREFFERED oil under all conditions!

I wonder if the part numbers for the bearing shells changed between
the 5.3 and the 6.0.

Apparently higher weight oils do increase fuel consupmtion by a VERY
slight degree.

Or perhaps not so slight. Some years back, Honda began specifying 5W-
30 instead of 10W-40, which is what their earlier cars used. The
owner’s handbook on the newer cars specified either 5W-30 or 10W-40
for most climates, but the cars came from the factory with the 5W-30.
When owners brought them back to the dealer for service, the dealers
would change the oil with 10W-40 so they could stock just one weight
oil for any Honda cars brought in. The customers noticed that the
fuel economy would drop by 10%, and they’d raise cane about it and
wanna know what’s wrong with their cars.

Since then Honda has moved even further toward light oils, and my
2004 Civic LX Coupe calls for 5W-20. And, interestingly, the
handbook calls for only 5W-20 regardless of climate. No other
weight oil is approved under any conditions.

– Kirbert

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10

There has been a lot of failures of cams that use the newer 30w oils.
Specifically flat tappet cam designs. All API approved 30w oils have
reduced zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate (ZDDP) levels in the oil. This is
to prolong the catalytic converter life. I would suggest that it is a
good idea to stay away from any API approved 30w oils in older designed
engines.
Yes lower weight oil reduces fuel consumption. That is way Ford and
Honda now use 20w oils in their engines. The drive for better mileage
will see most car manufactures going this way in the next couple of years.
In Petroleum oil the difference between the lower number and the higher
number ie 10W-30, should be no more than 20 to 25. This is due to the
amount of VI (viscosity improver) that need to be add. These VI’s are
designed to increase viscosity as they heat up. They are long molecules
that unwind or unfold with increasing temperature. The problem is they
shear. The result is that your oil that started out as a 5w-50 will
become some other viscosity lower than the 50 weight. True synthetic
oils need a lot less VI than Petroleum oils and tend to be more stable.

Chuck Mauch
84 XJS in pieces in the garage with a lack of time to finish
Vancouver BC

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11

In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Sun 7 Oct 2007:

This is a good thread. A number of years back Mercedes and Porsche
went to synthetic oil only (specificaly Mobil One). My wife had a
1999 430 ML that called for 10W/30 but the dealer said that
Mercedes back specified using 0W/20 on these cars. This indicates
that they are willing to reduce the recommended viscosity even on
an engine that is a little older.
Now nobody took any issue with my concern of cold start and the
wear associated with that which to my reckoning is perhaps some of
the worst wear an a properly maintained engine ever gets. My point
is this: try pouring a jug of 20/50 oil when the temp is about
freezing. It is like molasses! That is not even a cold temp for
many areas especially in the early AM. If a car is used every day
there will be a film of residual oil so perhaps no big deal, but
what about the car that has sat in the garage for 1-2 weeks. This
is where I am thinking thinner oil may be better.–
The original message included these comments:

Since then Honda has moved even further toward light oils, and my
handbook calls for only 5W-20 regardless of climate. No other
weight oil is approved under any conditions.

–
Mike Blair 94 XJS x 2 (6.0 Coupe & 4.0 Convertable)+85 HE
powhatan/Va, United States
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12

In reply to a message from wavpower sent Sun 7 Oct 2007:

I’ve read that Royal Purple contains more zinc than other brands of
motor oil.–
The original message included these comments:

There has been a lot of failures of cams that use the newer 30w oils.
Specifically flat tappet cam designs. All API approved 30w oils have
reduced zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate (ZDDP) levels in the oil. This is
to prolong the catalytic converter life. I would suggest that it is a
good idea to stay away from any API approved 30w oils in older designed
engines.

–
Joe Bialy, ’ 87 XJ-S & '94 XJ-40
Grosse Ile, Michigan, United States
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13

eyedoc wrote:

A number of years back Mercedes and Porsche
went to synthetic oil only (specificaly Mobil One). My wife had a 1999
430 ML that called for 10W/30 but the dealer said that Mercedes back
specified using 0W/20 on these cars.

I think they’re going to have to back specify again, because I don’t
think Mobil 1 comes in 0W-20 any more. I used it once in my Honda
Civic after checking on the label that it was, in fact, intended for
cars calling for 5W-20. With my most recent oil change, however, I
found Mobil 1 in 5W-20, not 0W-20.

My point is this: try pouring a jug of 20/50 oil when the temp
is about freezing. It is like molasses!

The synthetic stuff isn’t, it’s still pretty much just like 20W-50 at
room temperature.

If a car is used every day
there will be a film of residual oil so perhaps no big deal, but what
about the car that has sat in the garage for 1-2 weeks. This is where
I am thinking thinner oil may be better.

I agree that thinner oil is better for cold starts, but I’m not
following your logic on why. A film of oil will remain on all parts
regardless of how long it’s been sitting, and arguably better with
thicker oil. The reason thinner oil is better when cold is because
the pressure relief valve is likely to bypass most of your pumped oil
directly back into the sump rather than into the galleys.

– Kirbert

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14

Kirby,

I believe Mobil does still make 0W20 Mobil 1.

Their website indicates they do and I’m pretty certain I’ve seen that viscosity in the local stores.

According to this page:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1.aspx

Mobil 1 is available in these viscosities:

Mobil 1 0W-20
Mobil 1 0W-30
Mobil 1 0W-40
Mobil 1 5W-20
Mobil 1 5W-30
Mobil 1 10W-30
Mobil 1 15W-50

Mobil is now selling an “extended performance” version of Mobil 1 and this product does NOT seem to come in 0W20. Here are the
viscosities for M1 EP, according to the Mobil 1 website:

Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-30
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 10W-30
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15W-50

Best regards,

Gregory Wells 800-331-2193 x103
Coventry West, Inc. Atlanta, GA
Jaguar & Land Rover Parts
(New, Rebuilt & Used) www.coventrywest.com

-----Original Message-----
Kirbert posted:

I think they’re going to have to back specify again, because I don’t
think Mobil 1 comes in 0W-20 any more. I used it once in my Honda
Civic after checking on the label that it was, in fact, intended for
cars calling for 5W-20. With my most recent oil change, however, I
found Mobil 1 in 5W-20, not 0W-20.

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15

In reply to a message from Gregory Wells sent Mon 8 Oct 2007:

I can still find the 0W/20 and thw 0W/40 near me. I noticed that
there was no listing for 10W/40 but I have a jug of that I bought
recently. I believe it is Mobil 1 for trucks and SUV’s what ever
that is supposed to mean. I actually despise the Exon/Mobil company
because of the way my wifes family was treated over an Gas station
property. They are absolutely cut throat and will do ANYTHING for a
buck. I would say their honesty is dubious at best. That said the
only product I do use is Mobil 1 as I think it might be best
synthetic and it is widely available and not too expensive compared
to others. I never use their gas which is not tier one anyway!–
The original message included these comments:

Mobil 1 is available in these viscosities:
viscosities for M1 EP, according to the Mobil 1 website:

–
Mike Blair 94 XJS x 2 (6.0 Coupe & 4.0 Convertable)+85 HE
powhatan/Va, United States
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16

Gregory Wells wrote:

Mobil 1 is available in these viscosities:

Mobil 1 0W-20
Mobil 1 0W-30
Mobil 1 0W-40
Mobil 1 5W-20
Mobil 1 5W-30
Mobil 1 10W-30
Mobil 1 15W-50

That’s very odd. Why would they offer both a 0W-20 and a 5W-20? The
0W-20 says right on the bottle that it’s intended for vehicles
calling for 5W-20. Why would you choose one over the other?

Mobil is now selling an “extended performance” version of Mobil 1 and
this product does NOT seem to come in 0W20. Here are the viscosities
for M1 EP, according to the Mobil 1 website:

Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-30
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 10W-30
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15W-50

Hmmmm. No 10W-40. There was a day when 10W-40 was the most common
weight of motor oil.

– Kirbert

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17

Kirby asked:

Gregory Wells wrote:

Mobil 1 is available in these viscosities:

Mobil 1 0W-20
Mobil 1 0W-30
Mobil 1 0W-40
Mobil 1 5W-20
Mobil 1 5W-30
Mobil 1 10W-30
Mobil 1 15W-50

That’s very odd. Why would they offer both a 0W-20 and a 5W-20? The
0W-20 says right on the bottle that it’s intended for vehicles
calling for 5W-20. Why would you choose one over the other?

Kirby, IIRC Honda and maybe someone else was spec’ing 5W20 at a time when Mobil 1 didn’t have that viscosity but did sell 0W20. So
unless they put that claim on the bottle, they were going to lose sales to the owners who were looking for 5W20.

The reason I know this is because I was one of the folks looking for Mobil 1 5W20 a couple of years back when younger son got his
2005 Honda Civic…

Best regards,

Gregory Wells 800-331-2193 x103
Coventry West, Inc. Atlanta, GA
Jaguar & Land Rover Parts
(New, Rebuilt & Used) www.coventrywest.com

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18

Gregory Wells wrote:

Kirby, IIRC Honda and maybe someone else was spec’ing 5W20…

That would be Ford. It’s Ford and Honda that use 5W-20, I dunno if
anyone else does yet.

…at a time
when Mobil 1 didn’t have that viscosity but did sell 0W20. So unless
they put that claim on the bottle, they were going to lose sales to
the owners who were looking for 5W20.

Are you telling me that Mobil 1 was offering 0W-20 before there were
any cars that called for 5W-20? What was the intended market?

It would make more sense to me that Mobil 1 introduced the 0W-20 to
meet the 5W-20 market. After all, unusual weights are nothing new
for them; they offer 15W-50 for the 20W-50 market. But if Ford and
Honda specified 5W-20 for their cars and Mobil 1 offered 0W-20 for
those cars, why would they then introduce a 5W-20?

The reason I know this is because I was one of the folks looking for
Mobil 1 5W20 a couple of years back when younger son got his 2005
Honda Civic…

Mine’s a 2004.

BTW, it suffered a catastrophic oil-related engine failure while
under warranty. Honda had to replace the head when the cam journal
nearest the cam sprocket evidently ran dry, overheated, melted the
seal and pretty much ruined everything in the vicinity. The cam and
sprocket had turned a lovely shade of blue from the heat. The guys
at the Honda dealer couldn’t believe I hadn’t abused it somehow,
wanted to know why I would run a car with no oil in it. I had to
show them the receipts for the Mobil 1 I had been running in it.

I don’t believe it was the oil’s fault, though. I think someone
forgot to drill an oil passage, and that journal had been running
without oil since new. If so, it’s a miracle it made it 20K miles
before self-destructing. After the head replacement, the car gets
about 10% better fuel economy than it ever did during those first 20K
miles.

– Kirbert

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19

In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Tue 9 Oct 2007:

Not sure why you are talking about Hondas and Fords on a Jag
site…

The car I bought from a well known person on this site (it has the
very first set of Growlers) came with 20/50 AMSOIL, which I
continue to use. The AMSOIL is their normal looking 20/50. I used
to watch the oil pressure gauge go from 50 pounds to say 20 pounds
pressure on a hot day and driving fast, on the highway, thinking
it was a bizzare feature of the car, as the PO had installed a
pressure dial on the motor so you could leap out of your car and
see if IT showed oil pressure.

This season I orderd more oil, this time their 20/50 synthetic
heavy duty racing oil, cherry red, smells great, got it for the
same price as their normal 20/50

Amazing stuff, oil gauge stays pegged @ 40-50 pounds regardless of
the driving conditions on the highway–
The original message included these comments:

That would be Ford. It’s Ford and Honda that use 5W-20, I dunno if
Honda specified 5W-20 for their cars and Mobil 1 offered 0W-20 for

Honda Civic…

–
Repairman
Toronto, Canada
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20

In reply to a message from eyedoc sent Fri 5 Oct 2007:

THANKS Y’ALL!! for all the input on the engine oil issue.
seems like I’ve got some very good advice here. I knew I could
count on you guys! sammy in Athens, Ga. aka:v12madman–
v12madman
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